Fire Safety Leasehold Block Management
Discussion
Any PH members who are either a leaseholder of a flat, or a landlord of a leasehold flat, or a director of a management company of a block of flats, then they might be interested in my recent experience.
I am a landlord and leaseholder of a rental flat within a block of six leasehold flats on three floors, I am also one of six directors of the self management company. Recently the local council, together with the fire and rescue services, carried out a fire safety check on the block, then subsequently issuing a fire safety inspection report. Only two flats are tenanted, the others with leaseholders in residence. The issues the fire and safety inspection discovered were, leaseholders changing their flat entrance fire doors (see link below), leaseholders removing sounders from their flats (cancel out false alarms), communal stairways obstructed (bicycles) , and fire alarm and emergency lighting not checked according to BS5266-1, the former weekly and the latter monthly.
The Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 (“the Regulations”) came into effect on 23 January 2023. The Regulations are made under the powers of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 and greatly expands upon the contents. With the Fire Safety Regulation 2022 recently having an update dated 8 August 2025 (link below) that might be of interest to all leaseholders of flats, and to directors of block management.
For me the last month has been an absolute nightmare trying to get fellow leaseholders to comply with the fire safety inspection report.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
I am a landlord and leaseholder of a rental flat within a block of six leasehold flats on three floors, I am also one of six directors of the self management company. Recently the local council, together with the fire and rescue services, carried out a fire safety check on the block, then subsequently issuing a fire safety inspection report. Only two flats are tenanted, the others with leaseholders in residence. The issues the fire and safety inspection discovered were, leaseholders changing their flat entrance fire doors (see link below), leaseholders removing sounders from their flats (cancel out false alarms), communal stairways obstructed (bicycles) , and fire alarm and emergency lighting not checked according to BS5266-1, the former weekly and the latter monthly.
The Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 (“the Regulations”) came into effect on 23 January 2023. The Regulations are made under the powers of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 and greatly expands upon the contents. With the Fire Safety Regulation 2022 recently having an update dated 8 August 2025 (link below) that might be of interest to all leaseholders of flats, and to directors of block management.
For me the last month has been an absolute nightmare trying to get fellow leaseholders to comply with the fire safety inspection report.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
If you are a director then you will personally be criminally liable for the fire safety as a ‘responsible person’. Main reasons we retained the management company, plus why I ultimately sold my apartment.
There must be a professionally generated detailed fire risk assessment, the electrics must all be tested regularly, a fire evacuation strategy communicated (sounds like yours is simultaneous evac), exacting gaps on fire doors, clear passageways, emergency lighting with back up, vertical conduits must be fire resistant, no extinguishers or everybody trained to use them, scheduled tests, sufficient resident communication, a plan for anybody with restricted mobility etc etc etc
Wings said:
Any PH members who are either a leaseholder of a flat, or a landlord of a leasehold flat, or a director of a management company of a block of flats, then they might be interested in my recent experience.
I am a landlord and leaseholder of a rental flat within a block of six leasehold flats on three floors, I am also one of six directors of the self management company. Recently the local council, together with the fire and rescue services, carried out a fire safety check on the block, then subsequently issuing a fire safety inspection report. Only two flats are tenanted, the others with leaseholders in residence. The issues the fire and safety inspection discovered were, leaseholders changing their flat entrance fire doors (see link below), leaseholders removing sounders from their flats (cancel out false alarms), communal stairways obstructed (bicycles) , and fire alarm and emergency lighting not checked according to BS5266-1, the former weekly and the latter monthly.
The Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 (“the Regulations”) came into effect on 23 January 2023. The Regulations are made under the powers of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 and greatly expands upon the contents. With the Fire Safety Regulation 2022 recently having an update dated 8 August 2025 (link below) that might be of interest to all leaseholders of flats, and to directors of block management.
For me the last month has been an absolute nightmare trying to get fellow leaseholders to comply with the fire safety inspection report.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
As a director of the management company, why haven't you been testing the emergency lights and fire alarms regularly, or getting these done? They're so simple to do and you have a legal obligation to do so. I don't really understand why.I am a landlord and leaseholder of a rental flat within a block of six leasehold flats on three floors, I am also one of six directors of the self management company. Recently the local council, together with the fire and rescue services, carried out a fire safety check on the block, then subsequently issuing a fire safety inspection report. Only two flats are tenanted, the others with leaseholders in residence. The issues the fire and safety inspection discovered were, leaseholders changing their flat entrance fire doors (see link below), leaseholders removing sounders from their flats (cancel out false alarms), communal stairways obstructed (bicycles) , and fire alarm and emergency lighting not checked according to BS5266-1, the former weekly and the latter monthly.
The Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 (“the Regulations”) came into effect on 23 January 2023. The Regulations are made under the powers of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 and greatly expands upon the contents. With the Fire Safety Regulation 2022 recently having an update dated 8 August 2025 (link below) that might be of interest to all leaseholders of flats, and to directors of block management.
For me the last month has been an absolute nightmare trying to get fellow leaseholders to comply with the fire safety inspection report.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
My daughter's apartment building has recently had a load of fire safety modifications and additions done.
New seals around the doors, replacement letterboxes (which have left a visible scar on each door due to sizing issues) and extra door closers fitted to every flat and communal door.
Unfortunately, these works haven't made living in the apartments any easier, especially for the older residents. The main complaint is the door closers. They're quite fierce, possibly unnecessarily so.
Some of the old dears are really struggling with opening their front door and not having it slam shut (locked) after them.
So of course, they wedge them open using various devices which completely goes against the idea of a fire door!
New seals around the doors, replacement letterboxes (which have left a visible scar on each door due to sizing issues) and extra door closers fitted to every flat and communal door.
Unfortunately, these works haven't made living in the apartments any easier, especially for the older residents. The main complaint is the door closers. They're quite fierce, possibly unnecessarily so.
Some of the old dears are really struggling with opening their front door and not having it slam shut (locked) after them.
So of course, they wedge them open using various devices which completely goes against the idea of a fire door!
Cold said:
My daughter's apartment building has recently had a load of fire safety modifications and additions done.
New seals around the doors, replacement letterboxes (which have left a visible scar on each door due to sizing issues) and extra door closers fitted to every flat and communal door.
Unfortunately, these works haven't made living in the apartments any easier, especially for the older residents. The main complaint is the door closers. They're quite fierce, possibly unnecessarily so.
Some of the old dears are really struggling with opening their front door and not having it slam shut (locked) after them.
So of course, they wedge them open using various devices which completely goes against the idea of a fire door!
They're adjustable and it sounds like they have not been properly adjusted; it's easy to do.New seals around the doors, replacement letterboxes (which have left a visible scar on each door due to sizing issues) and extra door closers fitted to every flat and communal door.
Unfortunately, these works haven't made living in the apartments any easier, especially for the older residents. The main complaint is the door closers. They're quite fierce, possibly unnecessarily so.
Some of the old dears are really struggling with opening their front door and not having it slam shut (locked) after them.
So of course, they wedge them open using various devices which completely goes against the idea of a fire door!
The door "closing and sealing" regs are a complete pita. I understand they were implemented for good reasons but getting a door to meet them requires an extraordinary level of accuracy in both construction and adjustment.
I agree that it's easier to have an independent manager chasing people than having to do it yourself.
I agree that it's easier to have an independent manager chasing people than having to do it yourself.
hidetheelephants said:
Cold said:
My daughter's apartment building has recently had a load of fire safety modifications and additions done.
New seals around the doors, replacement letterboxes (which have left a visible scar on each door due to sizing issues) and extra door closers fitted to every flat and communal door.
Unfortunately, these works haven't made living in the apartments any easier, especially for the older residents. The main complaint is the door closers. They're quite fierce, possibly unnecessarily so.
Some of the old dears are really struggling with opening their front door and not having it slam shut (locked) after them.
So of course, they wedge them open using various devices which completely goes against the idea of a fire door!
They're adjustable and it sounds like they have not been properly adjusted; it's easy to do.New seals around the doors, replacement letterboxes (which have left a visible scar on each door due to sizing issues) and extra door closers fitted to every flat and communal door.
Unfortunately, these works haven't made living in the apartments any easier, especially for the older residents. The main complaint is the door closers. They're quite fierce, possibly unnecessarily so.
Some of the old dears are really struggling with opening their front door and not having it slam shut (locked) after them.
So of course, they wedge them open using various devices which completely goes against the idea of a fire door!
I have a friend who is a director for a block of 7 units. Each owner is also a director. Each flat is worth well over £1million, but they are balking at paying for fire doors at about £1,000 a door.
Amazingly, they find burying their heads in the sand more satisfactory.
Our current managing agent is happy to be “the responsible person” for fire safety. She insists it’s too difficult to produce a list of residents as a start to producing an evacuation plane.
I am currently seeking tenders for a competent MA.
Amazingly, they find burying their heads in the sand more satisfactory.
Our current managing agent is happy to be “the responsible person” for fire safety. She insists it’s too difficult to produce a list of residents as a start to producing an evacuation plane.
I am currently seeking tenders for a competent MA.
wolfracesonic said:
Yes, they can be adjusted so they don’t slam but for them to do their job they should make the door latch, a problem for Yale type locks. Fire extinguishers are quite good at wedging open fire doors;)
Mostly they're badly adjusted, a few times the wrong strength of door closer has been fitted, very occasionally the door hasn't been fitted right. Adjusting the door closer is easy so try that first.rdjohn said:
I have a friend who is a director for a block of 7 units. Each owner is also a director. Each flat is worth well over £1million, but they are balking at paying for fire doors at about £1,000 a door.
Amazingly, they find burying their heads in the sand more satisfactory.
Our current managing agent is happy to be “the responsible person” for fire safety. She insists it’s too difficult to produce a list of residents as a start to producing an evacuation plane.
I am currently seeking tenders for a competent MA.
If they’re non compliant, they’re not insured.Amazingly, they find burying their heads in the sand more satisfactory.
Our current managing agent is happy to be “the responsible person” for fire safety. She insists it’s too difficult to produce a list of residents as a start to producing an evacuation plane.
I am currently seeking tenders for a competent MA.
bennno said:
Aluminati said:
If they’re non compliant, they’re not insured.
If one is non compliant then potentially all are not insured.Ironically, nowhere does it mention expectations with regard to a Landlord’s duty of care to tenants and other Leaseholders. No mention is made of failure to deal with recommendations of the fire risk assessment, or fire risks generally.
It genuinely looks like they take on all risks, warts and all. I suppose the threat of prosecution for failing to comply, should be sufficient deterrent, in the event of a big fire.
Mind you, no one has been prosecuted yet WRT Grenfell Tower.
rdjohn said:
By coincidence, we have just received our insurance cover.
Ironically, nowhere does it mention expectations with regard to a Landlord’s duty of care to tenants and other Leaseholders. No mention is made of failure to deal with recommendations of the fire risk assessment, or fire risks generally.
It genuinely looks like they take on all risks, warts and all. I suppose the threat of prosecution for failing to comply, should be sufficient deterrent, in the event of a big fire.
Mind you, no one has been prosecuted yet WRT Grenfell Tower.
Normally has a clause tucked somewhere in there.Ironically, nowhere does it mention expectations with regard to a Landlord’s duty of care to tenants and other Leaseholders. No mention is made of failure to deal with recommendations of the fire risk assessment, or fire risks generally.
It genuinely looks like they take on all risks, warts and all. I suppose the threat of prosecution for failing to comply, should be sufficient deterrent, in the event of a big fire.
Mind you, no one has been prosecuted yet WRT Grenfell Tower.
Directors are legally liable. Ignorance is not an excuse, weekly tests of alarms, monthly tests of back up lighting, bi annual fire inspection reports, fire door gap tests, 5 yearly electrical testing, remediation plan, clearly communicated fire emergency plan, emergency plan for anybody with disabilities……
List goes on and on, make sure there’s a ‘responsible person’ named at your managing agents
My cousin owns a flat in a block of about 20, they are around 20 years old. They were inspected last year and most only needed slight adjustments to the fire doors, originally the management company said they would find a contractor and bill the owners, then they changed their minds and told each owner to sort it out themselves. I went last week to have a look at it for her and the fire door has shrunk, so its impossible to achieve the required tolerance, it’s also a door set and odd size so not easy to replace. It has been suggested they will accept intumescent strip with smoke seal to bridge the gap, I'm waiting to hear back.
rdjohn said:
By coincidence, we have just received our insurance cover.
Ironically, nowhere does it mention expectations with regard to a Landlord’s duty of care to tenants and other Leaseholders. No mention is made of failure to deal with recommendations of the fire risk assessment, or fire risks generally.
It genuinely looks like they take on all risks, warts and all. I suppose the threat of prosecution for failing to comply, should be sufficient deterrent, in the event of a big fire.
Mind you, no one has been prosecuted yet WRT Grenfell Tower.
The only time you will find out if they took on all risks, is claim time…Ironically, nowhere does it mention expectations with regard to a Landlord’s duty of care to tenants and other Leaseholders. No mention is made of failure to deal with recommendations of the fire risk assessment, or fire risks generally.
It genuinely looks like they take on all risks, warts and all. I suppose the threat of prosecution for failing to comply, should be sufficient deterrent, in the event of a big fire.
Mind you, no one has been prosecuted yet WRT Grenfell Tower.
Little Lofty said:
My cousin owns a flat in a block of about 20, they are around 20 years old. They were inspected last year and most only needed slight adjustments to the fire doors, originally the management company said they would find a contractor and bill the owners, then they changed their minds and told each owner to sort it out themselves. I went last week to have a look at it for her and the fire door has shrunk, so its impossible to achieve the required tolerance, it’s also a door set and odd size so not easy to replace. It has been suggested they will accept intumescent strip with smoke seal to bridge the gap, I'm waiting to hear back.
They are very demanding gap must be 4mm or 3mm depending upon spec…https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
bennno said:
They are very demanding gap must be 4mm or 3mm depending upon spec…
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
Yes I know, I’ve just fitted 12 to an HMO. The door is now 10mm smaller than the frame opening so no chance of meeting that. They nearly all shrink to some degree.https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
Little Lofty said:
bennno said:
They are very demanding gap must be 4mm or 3mm depending upon spec…
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
Yes I know, I’ve just fitted 12 to an HMO. The door is now 10mm smaller than the frame opening so no chance of meeting that. They nearly all shrink to some degree.https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...
Little Lofty said:
Yes I know, I’ve just fitted 12 to an HMO. The door is now 10mm smaller than the frame opening so no chance of meeting that. They nearly all shrink to some degree.
Into new or existing linings? I bet you had fun if it was the latter: remember, if you can see exposed chipboard on the edge, you’ve taken too much offbennno said:
So if it’s a 5mm gap, each side, then you’ve 1mm to close, couple of coats of paint on the frame?
They have said if the gaps are more than 4mm they will accept intumescent strip with smoke seal, the original strip is just fire. The gap is still too big though, no doubt someone else will come back at some point and make everyone get new doors.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff