Those who renovated houses themselves
Discussion
How did you do it?
The issue we have is we don't have a couple of hundred grand to drop on a building company doing the whole job, so I have to do stuff myself, use people on daywork or prices for their bits and then once we get to the bigger stuff I have a couple of local builders lined up.
What is beginning to really frustrate me is how stuck I am with almost everything.
For example I had a builder I know help me out, he fitted a rad but put isolation valves in the heating loop so he didn't have to drain down, now though, to remove and replace with pipe I am struggling to get a plumber round for such a small job, which means I can't board the floor back up, and I can't build my units.
This is going on in every corner it feels, yesterday I dug a new trench for gas and electric. I can't put the pipes in or backfill though as I wait an indefinite amount of time for the plumber, so other stuff can't be done.
Which is another issue, because we are chipping away there's lots of small jobs to be done but they are so small they aren't worth a professional doing them or they would understandably have to charge more for it.
I can clearly see here that a job of this size really needs to be done in one, i.e we move out and someone does the whole job over a few months. not possible though.
A bit of a pointless question really as I know how to do it, but any tricks to ensure you don't have to start breaking up what you did last week because you forgot a cable etc.
I can clearly see why so much building work is bad, no one, literally no one thinks about a few steps in front. Unfortunately for me it's all in my head and driving me mad that if I don't think of xyzzy then no one else will either.
I suppose you put up with the constant mess and put up with a hundred jobs that have been started but no finished and just keep plodding along. This is the 3rd house we've done but not to this extent, it's also 100 years old so things like insulating floors with celotex are all part of the job which is complicating things quite significantly.
The issue we have is we don't have a couple of hundred grand to drop on a building company doing the whole job, so I have to do stuff myself, use people on daywork or prices for their bits and then once we get to the bigger stuff I have a couple of local builders lined up.
What is beginning to really frustrate me is how stuck I am with almost everything.
For example I had a builder I know help me out, he fitted a rad but put isolation valves in the heating loop so he didn't have to drain down, now though, to remove and replace with pipe I am struggling to get a plumber round for such a small job, which means I can't board the floor back up, and I can't build my units.
This is going on in every corner it feels, yesterday I dug a new trench for gas and electric. I can't put the pipes in or backfill though as I wait an indefinite amount of time for the plumber, so other stuff can't be done.
Which is another issue, because we are chipping away there's lots of small jobs to be done but they are so small they aren't worth a professional doing them or they would understandably have to charge more for it.
I can clearly see here that a job of this size really needs to be done in one, i.e we move out and someone does the whole job over a few months. not possible though.
A bit of a pointless question really as I know how to do it, but any tricks to ensure you don't have to start breaking up what you did last week because you forgot a cable etc.
I can clearly see why so much building work is bad, no one, literally no one thinks about a few steps in front. Unfortunately for me it's all in my head and driving me mad that if I don't think of xyzzy then no one else will either.
I suppose you put up with the constant mess and put up with a hundred jobs that have been started but no finished and just keep plodding along. This is the 3rd house we've done but not to this extent, it's also 100 years old so things like insulating floors with celotex are all part of the job which is complicating things quite significantly.
Yep, did my current house (but won't be doing the extension!)
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
For the small jobs I taught myself, ended up doing all the plumbing and wiring, very easy with push fit connectors and wago connectors. It was actually the moving of a radiator that got me to try myself - they were all imperial and rusted out. I paid somebody £400 to move one and watched, decided that I could do it myself and did so - worst case I was down for the tool cost - £20 and if ok I was up a few £k as I had 8 to move.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
For the small jobs I taught myself, ended up doing all the plumbing and wiring, very easy with push fit connectors and wago connectors. It was actually the moving of a radiator that got me to try myself - they were all imperial and rusted out. I paid somebody £400 to move one and watched, decided that I could do it myself and did so - worst case I was down for the tool cost - £20 and if ok I was up a few £k as I had 8 to move.
I'd suggest learning a bit of plumbing. It's not that difficult and then you're not reliant on someone who can't really be bothered with an hour's work so keeps fobbing you off.
Either way I imagine doing a whole house yourself while living in it makes for a fairly grim couple of years.
Either way I imagine doing a whole house yourself while living in it makes for a fairly grim couple of years.
I have done a few houses myself over the years never done extensions though.
The way I manage is I learn to do everything myself, these days that is easy, with youtube and the internet. Gas pipes may be one that needs a pro though. But replacing a simple bit of pipe you should really be able to do yourself if you are undertaking a refurb like this. It really is very easy.
The way I manage is I learn to do everything myself, these days that is easy, with youtube and the internet. Gas pipes may be one that needs a pro though. But replacing a simple bit of pipe you should really be able to do yourself if you are undertaking a refurb like this. It really is very easy.
kiethton said:
For the small jobs I taught myself
This is the way! Soldering pipe and fixings/changing electrics is actually pretty straightforwards as long as you work methodically. I won't do gas and will pay to have electrics certified but otherwise I'm happy to do most things myself. YouTube is a great resource for tips and tricks.
The other thing I will add is to treat yourself to good tools, rejoisting a ceiling or routing new pipes is so much more enjoyable when you have the right saw/drill/cutter etc
The final thing (for me) is to get one room finished so you have somewhere to retreat to and relax away from all of the chaos!
We're finally coming towards the end of ours (just a kitchen and a few bathrooms left to do) but it has been hardwork alongside a full time job, 2 kids, and a racing hobby!
I've done a few that we lived in. The first was a cottage built in 1772, that was 30 years ago. I did lots of the work myself except the brickwork on 2 extensions on it and the roof trusses. We had the central heating fitted and my sisters boyfriend at the time was a spark. He taught me how to rewire the electrics, he did the new fuse board.
Taught myself to dryline, plaster, tile, floor joists and first and second fix all the joinery, also fitted the bathrooms and kitchen. Did all that with 5 small kids running around, very daunting.
They got easier after that one, even taught my lads to do bits as they were getting older on other properties.
The last one was here in Spain 5 years ago, did it in 6 months with doing most work myself. We are now looking for another villa in a different area to renovate. Im 62 now and still saying I've got one more renovation in me
Taught myself to dryline, plaster, tile, floor joists and first and second fix all the joinery, also fitted the bathrooms and kitchen. Did all that with 5 small kids running around, very daunting.
They got easier after that one, even taught my lads to do bits as they were getting older on other properties.
The last one was here in Spain 5 years ago, did it in 6 months with doing most work myself. We are now looking for another villa in a different area to renovate. Im 62 now and still saying I've got one more renovation in me
Road2Ruin said:
I did my first house with very little help. I taught myself pretty much everything, plumbing, electrics, plastering etc. It wasn't all perfect, but it got done. Waiting for a plumber or electrician would drive me up the wall.
Same here. It's amazing what you can learn off Youtube. I've done pretty much my whole house apart from the kitchen. The last room I did was the utility room which was in a bad state so I took it back to brick and redid it all. That included insulating the room, putting up a stud wall to replace the crumbly block wall that went around the toilet in there, all plumbing including the toilet, new downlights, replaced 1 radiator and fitted a new radiator plus pipework, plaster boarding the ceiling and stud wall, plastered the whole room including some fiddly parts around a recess which I needed in the toilet, LVT flooring, floor and wall tiling, fitting cabinets and worktops. I got an electrician in to add a new circuit for the room as needed quite a few extra sockets but that was the only job done by someone else. The electrician didn't believe me at first when I said i'd plastered the toilet which I took as a compliment. That room took me a year because every time I came to a job i'd have to stop and research how to do it, get the tools and take my time doing it. But now i'm doing the kitchen and i'm flying through it whilst doing odd jobs for my family and have the confidence to tackle most things.
As others have suggested, plumbing really isn’t that difficult. I was bought a Reader’s Digest DIY manual for one Christmas shortly after buying my first place.
I read the chapter on “how-to-plumb”, bought some copper tubes and various fittings and had a play in my garage. I didn’t think it was anything out of the ordinary. The lads at work said it was a piece of cake. There were a few mistakes along the way, but I ended up completely refitting all the central heating and water feeds in the house.
The only part I really struggled with was ensuring the joint between the toilet cistern and the bowl didn’t leak when it was flushed. My mums friend’s son, came and helped me with that and reconnected the gas up to the new boiler. I've found that small tidy-up jobs are best left as cash only.
As stated above by Lenny, the right tools must be bought, and one room needs to be left as a sanctuary away from all the mess and hassle.
I read the chapter on “how-to-plumb”, bought some copper tubes and various fittings and had a play in my garage. I didn’t think it was anything out of the ordinary. The lads at work said it was a piece of cake. There were a few mistakes along the way, but I ended up completely refitting all the central heating and water feeds in the house.
The only part I really struggled with was ensuring the joint between the toilet cistern and the bowl didn’t leak when it was flushed. My mums friend’s son, came and helped me with that and reconnected the gas up to the new boiler. I've found that small tidy-up jobs are best left as cash only.
As stated above by Lenny, the right tools must be bought, and one room needs to be left as a sanctuary away from all the mess and hassle.
I finally finished ours this year after six years of works. I’ve always found tradesmen to be hugely disappointing and the good ones are hard to get hold of - hence why I did most of it myself.
I think you need to work out which skills you want going forward. Plumbing is a piece of piss and worth the time invested because it will always come in useful even after the renovations. Joinery, second fix electrics, tiling, decorating are all very easy and also worth learning. Plastering……f
k that!
As for planning the works, I just zoned everything so there was always a part of the house that felt ‘normal’. I can still isolate off most of the heating system, which is quite useful but generally I think it’s essential to have some areas that don’t feel like a building site.
I think you need to work out which skills you want going forward. Plumbing is a piece of piss and worth the time invested because it will always come in useful even after the renovations. Joinery, second fix electrics, tiling, decorating are all very easy and also worth learning. Plastering……f
k that!As for planning the works, I just zoned everything so there was always a part of the house that felt ‘normal’. I can still isolate off most of the heating system, which is quite useful but generally I think it’s essential to have some areas that don’t feel like a building site.
It's not easy to do most yourself, but it is satisfying.
The jobs you described that stall because of outside factors out of your control.
Try to have two or three in progress, if possible, and switch while you are waiting for outside help or parts to arrive.
As said, and I guess you are doing this already, teach yourself, most is not difficult and the internet is overflowing with knowledge.
Not like before, when you really did have to teach yourself.
I feel for you. I know some people who have taken 2-3 years to renovate properties they are living in with their family which sounds less than ideal.
I did mine as soon as I could, moved In march, went in for planning 2 weeks later, lined builder up and started early July I was fully done from top to bottom about 11 months later.
I did a lot of it myself especially painting and project management but had builders in to do the structural stuff. Really if I were you I'd keep shopping about to see if you can find some cheap builders who have access to cheap labourers. It might knock a few months off. Of course that comes with a massive risk of them fking you over or them fking off half way through but as long as you don't get tucked up on the payments it might be worth looking at. You don't always need your builders to turn up in brand new 60k vans/ford rangers - sometimes they arrive by bus too (as one of mine does after ubering to my house with all his tools!)
One lot of builders around here quoted me 235k to do the work I had done for 110k in the end. It was obviously much more stressful doing it my way and involved a lot of my time and energy.
I did mine as soon as I could, moved In march, went in for planning 2 weeks later, lined builder up and started early July I was fully done from top to bottom about 11 months later.
I did a lot of it myself especially painting and project management but had builders in to do the structural stuff. Really if I were you I'd keep shopping about to see if you can find some cheap builders who have access to cheap labourers. It might knock a few months off. Of course that comes with a massive risk of them f
king you over or them fking off half way through but as long as you don't get tucked up on the payments it might be worth looking at. You don't always need your builders to turn up in brand new 60k vans/ford rangers - sometimes they arrive by bus too (as one of mine does after ubering to my house with all his tools!)One lot of builders around here quoted me 235k to do the work I had done for 110k in the end. It was obviously much more stressful doing it my way and involved a lot of my time and energy.
m3jappa said:
A bit of a pointless question really as I know how to do it, but any tricks to ensure you don't have to start breaking up what you did last week because you forgot a cable etc.
I can clearly see why so much building work is bad, no one, literally no one thinks about a few steps in front. Unfortunately for me it's all in my head and driving me mad that if I don't think of xyzzy then no one else will either.
Lots of answers so far for the other bits of your post but it’s the bit I’ve kept above which for me is the most important part. I can clearly see why so much building work is bad, no one, literally no one thinks about a few steps in front. Unfortunately for me it's all in my head and driving me mad that if I don't think of xyzzy then no one else will either.
Now I may be teaching you to suck eggs but you can learn basic plumbing and plastering etc as said in other responses but from what I read here that isn’t your problem.
Forgetting a cable and thinking a few steps ahead all points to planning and project management. I’ve done houses a few times now and the first thing I do is create a vision for the overall renovation and then one for each room. From that I will write a project plan for each room outlining the tasks, identify any dependencies and create a resource plan and purchasing list. You can the combine these for the whole house to look for where the crossovers are and those move to the list of key tasks to be done first…. Windows… heating….. wiring…. All the things that impact on every room.
Once you’ve done that and you’ve got your overall plan with the individual room plans sitting under it at that point it’s worth paying trusted trades to go through it for a few hours and identify what you have missed etc. this is where they will think of “you forgot a cable here” etc
Doing in depth planning and budgeting at the start and having those plans sanity checked pays off far more than the time and money spent. Once you’ve done that and are into the work run it like a project against those plans. The missus says she wants a different sink and tap in the bathroom? Treat it as a change request and look at the overall impact on project and budget. In doing so you don’t forget the governance of your project and it’s that kind of diligence that stops overspends and time over runs.
We did ours ourselves, only paid for a couple of large ceiliings to be plastered, and the gas work.
I came up with an overall plan for sockets, lighting, and Cat6 etc, as well as the radiators (only a couple to move, but I upgraded all of them to larger or double-panel double-convector) at the very beginning.
Then we just went room by room, starting in the kitchen, then utility, downstairs shower room, upstairs bathroom, and then the rest. Hall last as you have to travel through it with materials etc.
Doors last of all, as you have to buy them all at once, and you dont want a carpet fitter trimming them!
We had no carpet upstairs, and several loose floorboards in key positions for 3 years, but you get used to that quickly. If you do that, there should be no need to 'rip something out because you've forgotten a cable'.
Tbh it worked for us as the cashflow matched our rate of work. Easily spent 30k on materials alone on a 3 bed semi.
Hardest thing was getting woken by the dog at 4am every day when our bed was in the living room while we did our bedroom.
That and having the reaction to the 'rona put the price of everything up halfway through.
I came up with an overall plan for sockets, lighting, and Cat6 etc, as well as the radiators (only a couple to move, but I upgraded all of them to larger or double-panel double-convector) at the very beginning.
Then we just went room by room, starting in the kitchen, then utility, downstairs shower room, upstairs bathroom, and then the rest. Hall last as you have to travel through it with materials etc.
Doors last of all, as you have to buy them all at once, and you dont want a carpet fitter trimming them!
We had no carpet upstairs, and several loose floorboards in key positions for 3 years, but you get used to that quickly. If you do that, there should be no need to 'rip something out because you've forgotten a cable'.
Tbh it worked for us as the cashflow matched our rate of work. Easily spent 30k on materials alone on a 3 bed semi.
Hardest thing was getting woken by the dog at 4am every day when our bed was in the living room while we did our bedroom.
That and having the reaction to the 'rona put the price of everything up halfway through.
m3jappa said:
A bit of a pointless question really as I know how to do it, but any tricks to ensure you don't have to start breaking up what you did last week because you forgot a cable etc.
I can clearly see why so much building work is bad, no one, literally no one thinks about a few steps in front. Unfortunately for me it's all in my head and driving me mad that if I don't think of xyzzy then no one else will either.
Write it down and have (to the extent you can) a proper plan broken down by trades.I can clearly see why so much building work is bad, no one, literally no one thinks about a few steps in front. Unfortunately for me it's all in my head and driving me mad that if I don't think of xyzzy then no one else will either.
Figure out which things lie on your critical path then add in other jobs around those that are time critical to make large enough packages for the trades.
Build a good relationship with a few tradespeople so that the important things get done on time but you're flexible around the rest. Treat them with respect: listen to them, ask for their advice, and pay a sensible rate.
Recognise that things can and will go wrong and/or that unexpected things can be discovered. In spite of the temptation to say that it's someone's screw up, resist the temptation to assume/say that it is.
Lots of replies 
I haven’t had time to go through but I thought I should just un idiot myself a little bit, most plumbing is no problem, I can copper weld, I can fit rads etc. the example I used was one where two valves need replacing. Now I can do that, what I can’t do is refill the system without getting loads of airlocks. Neither can plumbers either but they eventually do it.
I’m currently running a new main, I can do it all except the connection to the live main…….so again that’s another example of a tiny job which means we’ve got to leave a massive hole open for until he can come.
I haven’t had time to go through but I thought I should just un idiot myself a little bit, most plumbing is no problem, I can copper weld, I can fit rads etc. the example I used was one where two valves need replacing. Now I can do that, what I can’t do is refill the system without getting loads of airlocks. Neither can plumbers either but they eventually do it.I’m currently running a new main, I can do it all except the connection to the live main…….so again that’s another example of a tiny job which means we’ve got to leave a massive hole open for until he can come.
m3jappa said:
Lots of replies I haven t had time to go through but I thought I should just un idiot myself a little bit, most plumbing is no problem, I can copper weld, I can fit rads etc. the example I used was one where two valves need replacing. Now I can do that, what I can t do is refill the system without getting loads of airlocks. Neither can plumbers either but they eventually do it.
I m currently running a new main, I can do it all except the connection to the live main .so again that s another example of a tiny job which means we ve got to leave a massive hole open for until he can come.
Have you not explored how you can switch the main off in the road? I’ve managed it a few times. I haven t had time to go through but I thought I should just un idiot myself a little bit, most plumbing is no problem, I can copper weld, I can fit rads etc. the example I used was one where two valves need replacing. Now I can do that, what I can t do is refill the system without getting loads of airlocks. Neither can plumbers either but they eventually do it.I m currently running a new main, I can do it all except the connection to the live main .so again that s another example of a tiny job which means we ve got to leave a massive hole open for until he can come.
Your difficulties in general are because you are saving yourself a lot of money by not using a building contractor to oversee all works. That’s where the smooth progress should happen. Yes I know it doesn’t always go that way but it should.
Preparation is key to all jobs so do that and you are bound to be successful.
As with others here I did ours myself for 2 reasons, 1-not a powerfully built director so couldn't afford to pay somebody to do it, 2-I don't like the idea of paying somebody for things that I can do myself.
We decided that we were going to do it room by room, as it was easier for to us live there and generally it wasn't in that bad of a condition.
You need to break it down into managable chunks, sometimes it might be more expensive to do so, or at times its just more efficient not to e.g. rather than rewiring room by room just do the whole house in one go or when doing heating I did it room by room as for us the pipework from the ceiling to the boiler was good and it was just the run down to the rads which needed updating.
If you try to do lots of bits you will start well and feel like you're making progress but as each job starts to have issues or you might be at the limit of your capability you will end up with lots of half finished jobs and this can get demotivating and stressful.
Part of learning something like this is that there will be mistakes and things you might have to redo but don't be too harsh on yourself, you are learning and it is a mistake to learn from. Once I remove a radiator and the plaster behind it had blown so as you do, I chipped it all the way back and filled it. However I made the mistake of not sealing the brickwork properly & going too thick too quickly so 3 days later it started to get mould and fail. So I had to remove it all and redo.
Another tip I had was to write my stuff down, this helps keep it out of your head but also helps if you have lots of jobs on the go keeping up to speed with where you are and what's next.
In regards to building work, generally they are paid to do a job, the job which you asked for and that is it, it isn't their house and they aren't going to go above and beyond for you. They will come in do what is required, get paid and go. If this is starting to be an issue then perhaps make it clearer to the trade what you want, serviceable in the future, make it temporary etc.
hope the above helps, just be sure not to get too overwhlemed with what you have going on, sometimes it is okay to stop and pause and then go at it again with renewed enthusiasm rather than chipping away and being disappointed in the end result
We decided that we were going to do it room by room, as it was easier for to us live there and generally it wasn't in that bad of a condition.
You need to break it down into managable chunks, sometimes it might be more expensive to do so, or at times its just more efficient not to e.g. rather than rewiring room by room just do the whole house in one go or when doing heating I did it room by room as for us the pipework from the ceiling to the boiler was good and it was just the run down to the rads which needed updating.
If you try to do lots of bits you will start well and feel like you're making progress but as each job starts to have issues or you might be at the limit of your capability you will end up with lots of half finished jobs and this can get demotivating and stressful.
Part of learning something like this is that there will be mistakes and things you might have to redo but don't be too harsh on yourself, you are learning and it is a mistake to learn from. Once I remove a radiator and the plaster behind it had blown so as you do, I chipped it all the way back and filled it. However I made the mistake of not sealing the brickwork properly & going too thick too quickly so 3 days later it started to get mould and fail. So I had to remove it all and redo.
Another tip I had was to write my stuff down, this helps keep it out of your head but also helps if you have lots of jobs on the go keeping up to speed with where you are and what's next.
In regards to building work, generally they are paid to do a job, the job which you asked for and that is it, it isn't their house and they aren't going to go above and beyond for you. They will come in do what is required, get paid and go. If this is starting to be an issue then perhaps make it clearer to the trade what you want, serviceable in the future, make it temporary etc.
hope the above helps, just be sure not to get too overwhlemed with what you have going on, sometimes it is okay to stop and pause and then go at it again with renewed enthusiasm rather than chipping away and being disappointed in the end result
I renovated a 130 year old house, on the Isle of Skye (where trades work to “Skye time”), in a pandemic. Perfect timing!
It was only a 2 bed and I wasn’t living there at the time, I’d imagine living in a renovation project is a whole new world of pain.
I started off with my schedule of works, all very detailed etc but soon realised some of the trades I was using didn’t work the way I did. I left detailed plans and writing/stickers on walls for the electricians about where plug sockets were to go but still ended up with a socket under a radiator and the main oven socket where the splashback should go. My plumber seemed to manage to create as many leaks as he fixed and also damaged the floor and a new vanity unit. My joiner, generally great, left his apprentice to fit the kitchen worktop and he cut off a finished edge I had paid considerable money to have. I could go on ….
Generally we came to arrangements to fix these problems so I wasn’t out of pocket but it sometimes seemed I took 1 step forward and 2 back. During one of my more frazzled moments my 16 year old niece philosophically said “In a years time you’ll have forgotten this was ever a problem.” She was right!
I can look back and in hindsight see how maybe things could have been done differently but the one thing I knew was that I wasn’t giving up. I’d seen too many old houses on the island up for sale after someone had started a renovation then given up mid way for whatever reason.
So I’ve not really given any advice except to believe it will all come together eventually, and it will! Take every little achievement as a moment to enjoy. I kept a rough diary and took lots of photos so on a bad day I could look at how the kitchen started and how it looked once the units were placed, how what had been a bricked up fireplace suddenly was open and had a hearth etc.
At the end of the renovation, once I tallied up all the costs etc, I realised I’d saved myself around £130k compared to the quotes I’d had for a company to come in and take over.
Renovating is hard work!
It was only a 2 bed and I wasn’t living there at the time, I’d imagine living in a renovation project is a whole new world of pain.
I started off with my schedule of works, all very detailed etc but soon realised some of the trades I was using didn’t work the way I did. I left detailed plans and writing/stickers on walls for the electricians about where plug sockets were to go but still ended up with a socket under a radiator and the main oven socket where the splashback should go. My plumber seemed to manage to create as many leaks as he fixed and also damaged the floor and a new vanity unit. My joiner, generally great, left his apprentice to fit the kitchen worktop and he cut off a finished edge I had paid considerable money to have. I could go on ….
Generally we came to arrangements to fix these problems so I wasn’t out of pocket but it sometimes seemed I took 1 step forward and 2 back. During one of my more frazzled moments my 16 year old niece philosophically said “In a years time you’ll have forgotten this was ever a problem.” She was right!
I can look back and in hindsight see how maybe things could have been done differently but the one thing I knew was that I wasn’t giving up. I’d seen too many old houses on the island up for sale after someone had started a renovation then given up mid way for whatever reason.
So I’ve not really given any advice except to believe it will all come together eventually, and it will! Take every little achievement as a moment to enjoy. I kept a rough diary and took lots of photos so on a bad day I could look at how the kitchen started and how it looked once the units were placed, how what had been a bricked up fireplace suddenly was open and had a hearth etc.
At the end of the renovation, once I tallied up all the costs etc, I realised I’d saved myself around £130k compared to the quotes I’d had for a company to come in and take over.
Renovating is hard work!
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