Staircase Question Two - How Is It Fixed?
Discussion
Me again.
I asked about painting my staircase, but now having started to take it apart (to do a better job of painting it), I am at a loss as to how it is fixed.
Photos below showing the 1970 (ish) installation. First pic is the whole thing:
This photos below shows the top where it is cut into a joist. There is no obvious fixing from either side, and there is nothing screwed back through the joist from the other side:
Here's where it meets the ground floor. Again, no obvious fixing. I assumed it would be bolted underneath the bit that supported the stair tread, but nothing. Note that it does not extend into the floor, I can see the original floor tile underneath it (as well as surrounding of course):
And finally from underneath at the top:
Part of me thinks there might be some kind of post set into the floor at the bottom, with the main timber fitted over it, but I don't see how it could have then been fitted at the top.
So... what would a carpenter from 1970 have done (same as a modern day one I guess, though building regs wouldn't really allow this now...).
If it has to stay in place then fine, but would be nice to remove and reassemble, especially as there's a carpet going down in January and it would be far better that the carpet isn't cut around the main timbers.
I asked about painting my staircase, but now having started to take it apart (to do a better job of painting it), I am at a loss as to how it is fixed.
Photos below showing the 1970 (ish) installation. First pic is the whole thing:
This photos below shows the top where it is cut into a joist. There is no obvious fixing from either side, and there is nothing screwed back through the joist from the other side:
Here's where it meets the ground floor. Again, no obvious fixing. I assumed it would be bolted underneath the bit that supported the stair tread, but nothing. Note that it does not extend into the floor, I can see the original floor tile underneath it (as well as surrounding of course):
And finally from underneath at the top:
Part of me thinks there might be some kind of post set into the floor at the bottom, with the main timber fitted over it, but I don't see how it could have then been fitted at the top.
So... what would a carpenter from 1970 have done (same as a modern day one I guess, though building regs wouldn't really allow this now...).
If it has to stay in place then fine, but would be nice to remove and reassemble, especially as there's a carpet going down in January and it would be far better that the carpet isn't cut around the main timbers.
We have a similar stair from a house built early 80s except ours is an L shape. I was led to believe they were built as part of the structure of the house, although that may have been a tradesperson that didn’t want to meddle with it.
I’d not remove to paint. Have a feeling it would never sit sturdily again!
I’d not remove to paint. Have a feeling it would never sit sturdily again!
For the top, they may have screwed in from the reverse side of the timber the stringers are housed into.
For the bottom if it does feel fixed but with no fixing visible, there maybe dowels on the bottom of the stringers going into the floor, or screws going from under the floor up into them, not sure what type of floor you have. As said, seems a bit drastic just to paint it.
wolfracesonic said:
For the top, they may have screwed in from the reverse side of the timber the stringers are housed into.
For the bottom if it does feel fixed but with no fixing visible, there maybe dowels on the bottom of the stringers going into the floor, or screws going from under the floor up into them, not sure what type of floor you have. As said, seems a bit drastic just to paint it.
It's not just about painting, it's because there's a carpet going in and if it were easy to remove the staircase then I would do so to avoid the carpet needing to be cut around it.
The floor is concrete, so nothing screwed from underneath. My best guess is dowels or similar pointing up from the floor to prevent motion, but if that was done then it is hard to imagine how the stringers (new word for me) were fitted at the top.
The staircase went in a few years after the bungalow was built, I'm confident it isn't supporting the floor above, that would be madness. I'll have a deeper investigation tomorrow, and worst case is that I strip everything but the stringers to paint, and have the carpet cut round them.
Cheers all.
J6542 said:
Mental thread. Just cut the carpet around the stairs, what would happen if you damaged the new carpet in 6 months time. Would you remove the stairs again.
Yes, if it had been fixed as I was hoping. That was for two bolts at the top, two bolts at the bottom. The rest comes apart easily (20 minutes' work at the most) and is going to be far easier to sand and paint that way. I believe I will do a better job by disassembling too.Catz said:
So you re planning to take the stair apart, then carpet, then put the stair back on top of the carpet??
A decent carpet fitter will be able to fit around any existing stair.
OK.A decent carpet fitter will be able to fit around any existing stair.
I'm taking it apart to paint it, because it comes apart easily. I will do a better job of sanding and painting that way, and it will be easier too. Taking it apart, other than the stringers, will take me about 20 minutes. Same to put back together.
If I can detach the stringers (hence the thread) I will remove them as well to sand/paint. If I can't I will leave them where they are and sand paint.
Regarding carpet fitting I will either have the stringers removed and painted, or painted in situ when the fitters arrive. If they are in situ then that's that, but if they are removed I will take their advice.
They are certainly decent carpet fitters, local company, been in business for years and I've used them many times.
hidetheelephants said:
Are there screws hiding in the mortices?
I don't think so. This was always my assumption that I'd take off the treads, then remove the blocks with the tenons, and then reveal fixings in the mortices to the concrete below and joists at the top.I will double check tomorrow, but I've looked pretty hard, shone a torch in and prodded with an awl, but I think it's just wood.
How solid is the bottom, did you try moving it? A mm or two of movement at the bottom would involve almost nothing at the top so you could at least see if the bottom it fixed & tap it with a soft mallet to see & listen how solidly fixed it is.
It might just be at the top and could be dowels or pins or all sorts, not sure it's conclusive there isn't a fixing you just haven't noticed. Something other than just friction is keeping it there.
It might just be at the top and could be dowels or pins or all sorts, not sure it's conclusive there isn't a fixing you just haven't noticed. Something other than just friction is keeping it there.
What I'm not so clear on is why it's notched so deep into the timber at the top, seems like the chopped out lots just to get a flat mating face? No wedges or anything else that seems to have made it necessary unless there was so restriction on the position of the bottom of the staircase?
konark said:
That's more of a ladder than a set of stairs.
Certainly looks that way, I’m a site joiner with 4 decades of fitting flights of stairs and was going to offer some advice but from his posts and the fact he didn’t know what a stringer was I will just read how it goes.They’re certainly not 42 degrees pitch either and open treads.
Good luck OP.
Promised Land said:
Certainly looks that way, I m a site joiner with 4 decades of fitting flights of stairs and was going to offer some advice but from his posts and the fact he didn t know what a stringer was I will just read how it goes.
They re certainly not 42 degrees pitch either and open treads.
Good luck OP.
Well yes, they are the stairs (ladder if you wish) that were built around 55 years ago, and they are what they are. They are rarely used, but they are there, and I want them to be black to match the doors that are being fitted.They re certainly not 42 degrees pitch either and open treads.
Good luck OP.
Everything attached to the stringers (good to know the correct term) comes apart easily, and I will remove to paint.
I had hoped that the stringers would be bolted in place, giving options for painting/carpet fitting, but as I can't see how they are fixed (hence starting this thread to ask for ideas) I will leave them where they are.
Let's close it now, and thanks to all who posted,
Promised Land said:
Certainly looks that way, I m a site joiner with 4 decades of fitting flights of stairs and was going to offer some advice but from his posts and the fact he didn t know what a stringer was I will just read how it goes.
They re certainly not 42 degrees pitch either and open treads.
Good luck OP.
The OP posted to ask for advice from people like yourself. A lot of DIYers would not know the terminology of all stair parts. They re certainly not 42 degrees pitch either and open treads.
Good luck OP.
Don't get why you would take the trouble to reply to say that you're not going to help.
Merry christmas !!
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