Anyone with livery/ rental spaces question

[Mirinjawbro]

Hello all

Have friends who rent our livery / land for horses at 400 a month

They have a couple of their own which I know aren't cheap but every single month say they have 0 money.

Surely with the roughly 8 spaces they rent every month and both working they should be loaded ?

What am I missing?

Thanks

[Doofus]

Mirinjawbro said:

Hello all

Have friends who rent our livery / land for horses at 400 a month

They have a couple of their own which I know aren't cheap but every single month say they have 0 money.

Surely with the roughly 8 spaces they rent every month and both working they should be loaded ?

What am I missing?

Thanks

Pensions, mortgages, none of your business?

[Mirinjawbro]

Its more of what am I missing as I thought about doing it myself but they not making as much as I assumed

But this reply is none of your business

[48k]

Mirinjawbro said:

Hello all



What am I missing?

Lots of variables.

Are they paying a mortgage on the land?
Insurance
Utility bills
Maintenance
Security
Pest control
Muck removal
Anything else they provide for the liveries eg hay? Rug washing?
Tools and equipment

In addition to the above, for your own horses:
Feed and supplements
Hay
Shoes
Vets bill (min keeping injections up to date)
Dentistry
Possibly other specialists like physio
Worm counts
Equipment/ tack
Lessons
Possibly competition entry fees.
Do they run a horse box or trailer? Etc

Its never ending and its not cheap.

Go and price up a few hundred metres of electric fencing, energisers and batteries. Or look at the price of post and rail for example. There's always something that gets broken which needs fixing. There's always a ripped rug or a lost boot or SOMETHING that needs buying.

Hay has got expensive because of the weather last year. We're currently paying £8 a bale and 2 horses and 2 ponies were doing a bale a day last month. Our neighbour is paying £9.50 from a different supplier.

A set of shoes is £105 from our farrier plus £1 per stud hole. Shoes last 6 weeks.

Muck skip costs £180 to have emptied every 6-8 weeks though we can eek that out by keeping some aside for muck spreading on the fields though strictly by our planning permission its all supposed to be removed.

Horse insurance is the biggest load of nonsense ever invented. Once you claim for something that gets excluded at renewal time. So if they cut their left front leg and you have the vet out, it better not cut the same leg next year cos it won't be covered. Utter bobbins.

There are many many variables every situation is different but hopefully that gives you some idea of the costs involved. And these are just the ones I know about - Mrs 48k never has any money she spends everything on what is apparently an enjoyable hobby.

[48k]

Mirinjawbro said:

I thought about doing it myself

Have you dealt with horsey wimmins before?
They are all mental. All of them.
Take your standard wimmins mental add horses and the mental goes up to 11.
You have been warned!

[LooneyTunes]

Mirinjawbro said:

Its more of what am I missing as I thought about doing it myself but they not making as much as I assumed

They are renting land and a yard from you, and then subletting? Not a surprise at all that they're not making much money, especially if they are responsible for land management, fencing, etc.

Don't even contemplate doing it if you know nothing about horses.

[Mirinjawbro]

They have 15 acres of land

The mortgage is 70k owed.

Ive never gone super deep into costs as its never bothered me but hearing them mention 400 per month per person just to rent a space seems too easy money.

Apparently the horse owners do it all themselves aswell

[Mirinjawbro]

48k said:

Mirinjawbro said:

Hello all



What am I missing?

Lots of variables.

Are they paying a mortgage on the land?
Insurance
Utility bills
Maintenance
Security
Pest control
Muck removal
Anything else they provide for the liveries eg hay? Rug washing?
Tools and equipment

In addition to the above, for your own horses:
Feed and supplements
Hay
Shoes
Vets bill (min keeping injections up to date)
Dentistry
Possibly other specialists like physio
Worm counts
Equipment/ tack
Lessons
Possibly competition entry fees.
Do they run a horse box or trailer? Etc

Its never ending and its not cheap.

Go and price up a few hundred metres of electric fencing, energisers and batteries. Or look at the price of post and rail for example. There's always something that gets broken which needs fixing. There's always a ripped rug or a lost boot or SOMETHING that needs buying.

Hay has got expensive because of the weather last year. We're currently paying £8 a bale and 2 horses and 2 ponies were doing a bale a day last month. Our neighbour is paying £9.50 from a different supplier.

A set of shoes is £105 from our farrier plus £1 per stud hole. Shoes last 6 weeks.

Muck skip costs £180 to have emptied every 6-8 weeks though we can eek that out by keeping some aside for muck spreading on the fields though strictly by our planning permission its all supposed to be removed.

Horse insurance is the biggest load of nonsense ever invented. Once you claim for something that gets excluded at renewal time. So if they cut their left front leg and you have the vet out, it better not cut the same leg next year cos it won't be covered. Utter bobbins.

There are many many variables every situation is different but hopefully that gives you some idea of the costs involved. And these are just the ones I know about - Mrs 48k never has any money she spends everything on what is apparently an enjoyable hobby.

Thankyou for that. Didn't think of many

I will never own horses. It would be purely having a house with land to rent spaces out and let them dea lwith it

Thanks

[LooneyTunes]

Mirinjawbro said:

It would be purely having a house with land to rent spaces out and let them dea lwith it

If only....! The reality is very different, which is why when we bought our current home the only thing I really put my foot down about was that nobody other than MrsLT was going to keep horses there except strictly on a temporary basis in extreme circumstances.

If you really want to try to make money from horses, a separate yard is the way to go. When you see how many are closing down you'll realise it's not the golden goose that it might first seem to be.

[48k]

Mirinjawbro said:

48k said:

Mirinjawbro said:

Hello all



What am I missing?

Lots of variables.

Are they paying a mortgage on the land?
Insurance
Utility bills
Maintenance
Security
Pest control
Muck removal
Anything else they provide for the liveries eg hay? Rug washing?
Tools and equipment

In addition to the above, for your own horses:
Feed and supplements
Hay
Shoes
Vets bill (min keeping injections up to date)
Dentistry
Possibly other specialists like physio
Worm counts
Equipment/ tack
Lessons
Possibly competition entry fees.
Do they run a horse box or trailer? Etc

Its never ending and its not cheap.

Go and price up a few hundred metres of electric fencing, energisers and batteries. Or look at the price of post and rail for example. There's always something that gets broken which needs fixing. There's always a ripped rug or a lost boot or SOMETHING that needs buying.

Hay has got expensive because of the weather last year. We're currently paying £8 a bale and 2 horses and 2 ponies were doing a bale a day last month. Our neighbour is paying £9.50 from a different supplier.

A set of shoes is £105 from our farrier plus £1 per stud hole. Shoes last 6 weeks.

Muck skip costs £180 to have emptied every 6-8 weeks though we can eek that out by keeping some aside for muck spreading on the fields though strictly by our planning permission its all supposed to be removed.

Horse insurance is the biggest load of nonsense ever invented. Once you claim for something that gets excluded at renewal time. So if they cut their left front leg and you have the vet out, it better not cut the same leg next year cos it won't be covered. Utter bobbins.

There are many many variables every situation is different but hopefully that gives you some idea of the costs involved. And these are just the ones I know about - Mrs 48k never has any money she spends everything on what is apparently an enjoyable hobby.

Thankyou for that. Didn't think of many

I will never own horses. It would be purely having a house with land to rent spaces out and let them dea lwith it

Thanks

Yeah, hopefully you get the idea that the "letting them deal with it" doesn't happen. You would effectively become a landlord. All the facilities etc are down to you. Horse breaks fence - you have to fix it. Water pipe freezes and bursts - you have to fix it. Alarm on the tack room goes funny and stops working - you have the contract, you have to fix it. Bad egg livery leaves in a huff - everyone needs new keys / padlocks / alarm codes. Down to you. Muck heap doesn't get emptied and environmental health contact the landowner about liquid seeping out of the property on to the highway - down to you. Hay barn has a leaking roof and everyones hay is getting wet - you need to fix it. Waste disposal is down to you - there's only so many feed sacks and other detritus you can sneak in to your domestic rubbish collection before you get a knock on the door regarding commercial waste disposal. And so on and so on. Even if you just deal with one "manager" livery and let her deal with the management of the 6-7 other liveries you still have a plethora of stuff to deal with as the landlord / land owner. It's not a case of simply sitting back and watching the cash roll in every month.
And that's all aside from the mortgage situation and whether your lender will let you run a commercial venture on your land which is a whole different ball game altogether.
If you've never dealt with horses or horsey people before I would strongly recommend you steer well clear if you have no idea what you're getting in to.

[LooneyTunes]

48k said:

Even if you just deal with one "manager" livery and let her deal with the management of the 6-7 other liveries you still have a plethora of stuff to deal with as the landlord / land owner.

7-8 liveries in total? Where he lived? That'd be next level insanity...

[48k]

LooneyTunes said:

48k said:

Even if you just deal with one "manager" livery and let her deal with the management of the 6-7 other liveries you still have a plethora of stuff to deal with as the landlord / land owner.

7-8 liveries in total? Where he lived? That'd be next level insanity...

Was just going off the OP where he said his friends had 8 spaces.

Dealing with any horsey wimmins is next level insanity you really need to know what you are getting in to.

[Mirinjawbro]

Guess its onto the next venture

Need examples of horsey wimmin please

[Tom8]

48k said:

Mirinjawbro said:

I thought about doing it myself

Have you dealt with horsey wimmins before?
They are all mental. All of them.
Take your standard wimmins mental add horses and the mental goes up to 11.
You have been warned!

Try and sell them hay!

[LooneyTunes]

Mirinjawbro said:

Guess its onto the next venture

Need examples of horsey wimmin please

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/the-tack-room.79/

...some of it makes the man maths on here seem positively well reasoned and sensible!

[curvature]

48k said:

Have you dealt with horsey wimmins before?
They are all mental. All of them.
Take your standard wimmins mental add horses and the mental goes up to 11.
You have been warned!

Agreed!

[crisp packet]

Agreed. Costs can be eye watering. We have around 30 acres and 15 horses. Wife charges around £5/600 per month. Varies in the type of livery. She has 5 of her own and if it wasn't for that simply wouldn't do it.

Infrastructure cost is huge - so much more to buy our house with the land than similar without. American Barn around £150k with internal stables, arena around £100k, horse walker, 1 full time employee (who does some land stuff and some horse stuff), a part time groom. Hay and straw is mega expensive. Horsey people are generally skint so want to pay as little as possible. Water and electric bills. Rates. Fixing things. Constantly being around. Monitoring horses on CCTV and in person. Dealing with emergencies. Getting expensive holday cover.

Try buying land, adding good enough facilities to charge, on paper, reasonable sums, then paying all the associated bills and then tell me it makes any sort of business sense! You can make a small fortune if you start with a big one.

My wife knows lots of yard owners. None of them make much. Just because you don't know all the reasons why doesn't make it less so. If you do go for it and make money please tell me how.

[scot_aln]

LooneyTunes said:

Mirinjawbro said:

Guess its onto the next venture

Need examples of horsey wimmin please

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/the-tack-room.79/

...some of it makes the man maths on here seem positively well reasoned and sensible!

A couple of random clicks on that and yep. I see what you mean.

[bobtail4x4]

Farmer mate of mine, had a couple of horses for a friends wife, for free,
gets a visit from 2 16-17 yr old girls, asking to keep their horses there too,

they made it plain they were not planning to pay anything, and would "pay in kind"

we asked him how many stables was he building

I have a horse or sometimes 2 in our field in the summer, belonging to next door, keeps the grass down, and no I dont get to shag him,

Edited by bobtail4x4 on Tuesday 27th January 13:59

[Sford]

We did it for a while. Rented out our land for DIY livery purposes. Just the land and water (we are't on a meter) and no stables. We caught one of the women loading up bowsers in her car full of water one time to take elsewhere. Not the end of the world as they were paying and we weren't metered but it was one of those things that then lead to noticing all the other things. They broke a couple of the metal outside taps. The horses were regularly going mental and just running through bits of fence. We were sat in the house one evening and one just casually strolled up to the window. There is a wellie boot still stuck in the ground up to it's rim where one got stuck. We keep finding discarded horse 'stuff' around the place. Found an electric fence battery solar thing. They were, as said, another level of mental wimmin. All nice mind, polite and courteous but had this ability to destroy everything. One of the horses stuck it's head in a bush and got a thorn in the eye, that lead to a lot of vets bills.

In the time there were there they separated the field up with post and rail fencing that must have cost them a bit to buy. They split 8 acres up into 6 paddocks and then rotated the horses between those. It can work and it was nice to have someone always visiting the land as it kept others away I suppose. Glad it's over with now though.