Discussion
Got a 3 bed semi-detached house to sell as part of an estate.
The house is generally old, usual grandmother spec.
I ve had an estate agent round to value and then give opinion on doing it up.
The house is a 60 s build. It has double glazing and doors (around 40yr old, and gas central heating (20yr old boiler) but no issues with either. Kitchens reasonable been replaced at some point & no wear but the bathroom is builder original. Asides from that the roof, rendering and ironmongery is 60odd yrs old as are the wiring.
I was fully expecting the estate agent to be on board with me doing the place up to a wider appeal before going to market. I had suggested rewire, full decor and a bathroom. But instead he s said unless you do everything roof down, you won t realise much more value. I wouldn t bother doing anything and put it to market as it is.
Anyone else been in this position of how best to extract value from a family estate. What I don t want it to limit the appeal to only a limited few that want a diy project. In my mind people are happy to pay more for walk in condition, not many want to be moving into a renovation.
The house is generally old, usual grandmother spec.
I ve had an estate agent round to value and then give opinion on doing it up.
The house is a 60 s build. It has double glazing and doors (around 40yr old, and gas central heating (20yr old boiler) but no issues with either. Kitchens reasonable been replaced at some point & no wear but the bathroom is builder original. Asides from that the roof, rendering and ironmongery is 60odd yrs old as are the wiring.
I was fully expecting the estate agent to be on board with me doing the place up to a wider appeal before going to market. I had suggested rewire, full decor and a bathroom. But instead he s said unless you do everything roof down, you won t realise much more value. I wouldn t bother doing anything and put it to market as it is.
Anyone else been in this position of how best to extract value from a family estate. What I don t want it to limit the appeal to only a limited few that want a diy project. In my mind people are happy to pay more for walk in condition, not many want to be moving into a renovation.
Edited by Edible Roadkill on Wednesday 4th February 08:49
There are, unsurprisingly, several schools of thought. Just in summary I would say:
1: Modern buyers expect a turnkey property - everything done, walk in, touch nothing. I was told by several estate agents that buyers today 'have no imagination'.
2: You won't get your money back on a refurb - although you might sell it more quickly if it's presented as freshly done.
3: Some buyers (see point 1) will have the imagination to see what is possible, but they will be adding the cost in their minds - and therefore expecting a discounted price.
How are similar properties priced and presented in the area?
It's a tricky one.
I did sell a house a few years ago where I stripped everything out, bland colour (the same colour) throughout, bland (cheapish but new) same carpet throughout. A blank canvas, so blank as to be mind-numbingly dull. It sold very quickly, having previously sat around.
1: Modern buyers expect a turnkey property - everything done, walk in, touch nothing. I was told by several estate agents that buyers today 'have no imagination'.
2: You won't get your money back on a refurb - although you might sell it more quickly if it's presented as freshly done.
3: Some buyers (see point 1) will have the imagination to see what is possible, but they will be adding the cost in their minds - and therefore expecting a discounted price.
How are similar properties priced and presented in the area?
It's a tricky one.
I did sell a house a few years ago where I stripped everything out, bland colour (the same colour) throughout, bland (cheapish but new) same carpet throughout. A blank canvas, so blank as to be mind-numbingly dull. It sold very quickly, having previously sat around.
Similar happened when my old dad passed. Long story story he was gradually going blind, he hired a cleaner who did a crap job. Obviously he couldn't see well enough to call her on that. I was living in the US and sis was other end of the country so to our shame we couldn't keep a good enough eye on him. Then he was taken into care for a year so the house was left empty. In sum the house was a s
thole when he passed.
Me and sister thought it's worth putting our hands in our pockets and redoing the house - sprat to catch a mackerel. The 3 estate agents we spoke said no don't do that, we'd rather sell the house as is.
The house did sell quickly for more than we expected to a BTL guy. For context the house was very close to a prestigous university. The buyer did the house up broke it into 4 rooms and rented it students, he must have made >10% on the purchase price even after renovations. In hindsight wish we'd kept it done the same.
All that said you'd want to consider an estate agent would far rather nail down an instruction now than have the potential for an instruction in a few weeks/months when you do the house up.
thole when he passed. Me and sister thought it's worth putting our hands in our pockets and redoing the house - sprat to catch a mackerel. The 3 estate agents we spoke said no don't do that, we'd rather sell the house as is.
The house did sell quickly for more than we expected to a BTL guy. For context the house was very close to a prestigous university. The buyer did the house up broke it into 4 rooms and rented it students, he must have made >10% on the purchase price even after renovations. In hindsight wish we'd kept it done the same.
All that said you'd want to consider an estate agent would far rather nail down an instruction now than have the potential for an instruction in a few weeks/months when you do the house up.
I sold a complete dump of a place last year as an executor of a will. Chap had been born in the house; lived in for 84 years; and died in it. No modernisation at all: no central heating; no double glazing; no hot water (ancient boiler broken); Bakelite switches; and an outside toilet! One of the utility bills was still in his late fathers name who had died 35 years before!
It would have been a bottomless pit money-wise and I could easily see £100k being spent on it to get it up to speed. If I was in the 'trade' and could have done a load of work myself and knew other trades who would work for mates rates, then maybe.
Anyway we got 3 EA's around and one of them suggested to sell it via modern auction. We did that and realised £16.5k more than we valued it at for sale as if it been a standard sale. The chap who bought it installs HVAC I think, so handy and with trade mates as well I suspect.
It would have been a bottomless pit money-wise and I could easily see £100k being spent on it to get it up to speed. If I was in the 'trade' and could have done a load of work myself and knew other trades who would work for mates rates, then maybe.
Anyway we got 3 EA's around and one of them suggested to sell it via modern auction. We did that and realised £16.5k more than we valued it at for sale as if it been a standard sale. The chap who bought it installs HVAC I think, so handy and with trade mates as well I suspect.
oblio said:
I sold a complete dump of a place last year as an executor of a will. Chap had been born in the house; lived in for 84 years; and died in it. No modernisation at all: no central heating; no double glazing; no hot water (ancient boiler broken); Bakelite switches; and an outside toilet! One of the utility bills was still in his late fathers name who had died 35 years before!
It would have been a bottomless pit money-wise and I could easily see £100k being spent on it to get it up to speed. If I was in the 'trade' and could have done a load of work myself and knew other trades who would work for mates rates, then maybe.
Anyway we got 3 EA's around and one of them suggested to sell it via modern auction. We did that and realised £16.5k more than we valued it at for sale as if it been a standard sale. The chap who bought it installs HVAC I think, so handy and with trade mates as well I suspect.
In this very similar situation at the moment.......how did you find it selling via a 'modern auction'?It would have been a bottomless pit money-wise and I could easily see £100k being spent on it to get it up to speed. If I was in the 'trade' and could have done a load of work myself and knew other trades who would work for mates rates, then maybe.
Anyway we got 3 EA's around and one of them suggested to sell it via modern auction. We did that and realised £16.5k more than we valued it at for sale as if it been a standard sale. The chap who bought it installs HVAC I think, so handy and with trade mates as well I suspect.
Both options have pro's and con's.
Decide to do it all up and assuming it's not DIY, you've got to find trades, hope they turn up, get quotes, chase quotes, wait for them to be available to start etc etc. I'd guess you would be at least 2 to 3 months before being finished, maybe longer.
Sell as is and you can get the on the market much quicker, but exclude those who want the turnkey property as they don't have time, imagination or both. However, if you don't get any interest, you could have wasted a month or two which could have been organising a refurb.
Decide to do it all up and assuming it's not DIY, you've got to find trades, hope they turn up, get quotes, chase quotes, wait for them to be available to start etc etc. I'd guess you would be at least 2 to 3 months before being finished, maybe longer.
Sell as is and you can get the on the market much quicker, but exclude those who want the turnkey property as they don't have time, imagination or both. However, if you don't get any interest, you could have wasted a month or two which could have been organising a refurb.
Edited by Harpoon on Wednesday 4th February 09:49
Having been on the other side of this recently, helping the MIL buy/relocate nearer us.
There wasn't much spread in asking price between full on project (roof, re-wire, gut and start again) and full turn key.
We ended up buying something that just needed a cosmetic freshen up at about 50k more than the projects which easily needed 100k+ spending and could have been full of surprises.
This is SE commuter belt, around here people seem to be buying and doing up for the long run as the cost of moving is so high.
There wasn't much spread in asking price between full on project (roof, re-wire, gut and start again) and full turn key.
We ended up buying something that just needed a cosmetic freshen up at about 50k more than the projects which easily needed 100k+ spending and could have been full of surprises.
This is SE commuter belt, around here people seem to be buying and doing up for the long run as the cost of moving is so high.
Edible Roadkill said:
I was fully expecting the estate agent to be on board with me doing the place up to a wider appeal before going to market. I had suggested rewire, full decor and a bathroom. But instead he s said unless you do everything roof down, you won t realise much more value. I wouldn t bother doing anything and put it to market as it is.
He's right: either fully refurb it or don't bother.An in-between property doesn't leave any value on the table for a DIYer/flipper and doesn't appeal to someone who doesn't want to do work/doesn't feel able to live with the aging bits/doesn't have the liquid cash to finish off a refurb.
On the rewire... people care more about the bits they can see.
At least you see that it needs work. The worst properties to try to buy are those where it's all tired but because the owner recently replaced a lightbulb they think it's all fully up to scratch.
What is the plot like? What are the surrounding places, houses, bungalows? You should also consider planning and demolition, could be a viable alternative, stick a house on it or new bungalow (carries a premium), couple of starter homes if big enough space. Hard to say not knowing much about it but have a look at different options, what is selling round there, what sort of price. Get a couple of quotes done. You could demolish and clear the land and sell the plot with permission.
jonsp said:
Me and sister thought it's worth putting our hands in our pockets and redoing the house - sprat to catch a mackerel. The 3 estate agents we spoke said no don't do that, we'd rather sell the house as is.
All that said you'd want to consider an estate agent would far rather nail down an instruction now than have the potential for an instruction in a few weeks/months when you do the house up.
EA knows that we’re just at the start of valuing the estate for confirmation so there’s at least 6 weeks plus time to do the light renovation. All that said you'd want to consider an estate agent would far rather nail down an instruction now than have the potential for an instruction in a few weeks/months when you do the house up.
I was being mindful of 1% fee of x v’s y price doesn’t make much of a difference to them and they just want to sell but alas he knows there’s a delay anyway.
Tom8 said:
What is the plot like? What are the surrounding places, houses, bungalows? You should also consider planning and demolition, could be a viable alternative, stick a house on it or new bungalow (carries a premium), couple of starter homes if big enough space. Hard to say not knowing much about it but have a look at different options, what is selling round there, what sort of price. Get a couple of quotes done. You could demolish and clear the land and sell the plot with permission.
No scope for any of that, It s a semi-det chalet style 1.5 story house in a town on a single plot decent garden room to extend back but not anything beyond that. House is common to the 1960 s. 2 bedrooms up and one down. Decent plot of land on the corner in a quiet culdesac. Extending it prior to sale not under consideration due to current building prices being around 3x what they were 10yrs ago. My Mrs inherited a property last year, we decided to move into it so it was refurbed, if we had sold it I would not have done any work to it, it would have cost £30k, and on a good day added £30k to it, but probably less. I’ve been flipping property for the last 15 years. I’d often have 2/3 lined up ready to start. I’m currently working on one at the moment but have no others in the pipeline, it’s not easy to make a profit today. You have the advantage of no stamp duty or buying costs but the refurb costs are prohibitive now. The house I’m working on at the moment is a large ish Victorian terrace, it was in a sorry state, wet rot, dry rot and bodged by the previous owner, it’s not yet finished and has already swallowed £100k. I suspect your agents are correct, from a financial point of view it probably makes no sense to refurb it, it would sell more quickly but it may take 3 months + to do the work, you have a 3 months head start if you put it on the market now. If it does not sell you still have the option to refurb.
In the old days, a gib question would have been 'could a FTB get a big % mortgage on it as is?
In some areas there are lots of young people who want to buy a wreck at a fair price and do it up.
Including many who are in trades or who have friends in trades.
You need to know the market locally, who are the target buyers? what other options do they have?
The OP seems to be looking for a profit for himself as well as profits for lots of trades?
A lot of people do want new, shiny turn-key and all that, but the new build industry is all-in offering those people what they want.
A good local agent will understand the area and the right target buyer. A less good agent may waste your time.
In some areas there are lots of young people who want to buy a wreck at a fair price and do it up.
Including many who are in trades or who have friends in trades.
You need to know the market locally, who are the target buyers? what other options do they have?
The OP seems to be looking for a profit for himself as well as profits for lots of trades?
A lot of people do want new, shiny turn-key and all that, but the new build industry is all-in offering those people what they want.
A good local agent will understand the area and the right target buyer. A less good agent may waste your time.
I sold my mum's place last year. It was ok but could have done with a remodelling. The estate agent's view was not to touch it. We quickly got an offer from someone downsizing (though that fell through and then it took another 8 months to resurrect - with the same buyer). We had loads of viewings in that 8 months and it did seem that many thought there was too much work. I thought I could have reworked it to get a better price but the estate agent remained of the view that we'd not get our money back 9and obviously it would have meant another 6 months of not being on the market).
Estate agents don't really care - a sale is a sale. You taking it off the market, doing the work and remarketing is just a fee postponed.
I asked a top-end property developer on here about redoing our kitchen/bathrooms when we were trying to downsize. His advice was to leave it. He'd put £150k kitchens into places and the first thing the buyer did was rip it out to replace it with another £150k kitchen.
When I have looked at refurbed places, the finish is usually poor (or clearly done on a tiny budget) and it puts me off.
My son is looking at the moment (a FTB) and seems to be mostly interested in wrecks that he can do up.
In short, I don't think there is a simple answer. If everything is working, I'd freshen the paint (make it bland), perhaps look at carpets, if those are worn, and try it like that.
Estate agents don't really care - a sale is a sale. You taking it off the market, doing the work and remarketing is just a fee postponed.
I asked a top-end property developer on here about redoing our kitchen/bathrooms when we were trying to downsize. His advice was to leave it. He'd put £150k kitchens into places and the first thing the buyer did was rip it out to replace it with another £150k kitchen.
When I have looked at refurbed places, the finish is usually poor (or clearly done on a tiny budget) and it puts me off.
My son is looking at the moment (a FTB) and seems to be mostly interested in wrecks that he can do up.
In short, I don't think there is a simple answer. If everything is working, I'd freshen the paint (make it bland), perhaps look at carpets, if those are worn, and try it like that.
I think a lot depends how the market is for that type of property.
When Mum in Law did we had a Bungalow to sell, lot's of interest for Bungalow's, put it out for offers at or over £xxx.
Stripped the carpet out of the lounge which was a little thread bare in front of her chair, carpet in bedroom had something spilled on it so that went as well, took out a badly fitted wardrobe.
Got rid of washing machine and Fridge Freezer on Freecycle.
I put a new radiator in the bathroom because of rust around the bottom ports, didn't fancy that leaking whilst it was empty.
Good vac and wipe down paintwork, double glazed although likely 25+ years old, Central heating Boiler around 5 years old, serviced every year. Composite door around 3 years old.
Sister in law wanted to come in and Magnolia all the walls and paint the woodwork white, EA said don't bother most folk want to paint whatever colour they want.
Offered to the highest bidder, they wanted it for a BTL, and who started to then try knock the price down , because there was no warranty for the boiler or glazing, the electrics they wanted an electrician to come and give it a check over.
I'd had enough at this point and told them to forget it and we'd go with the next highest bidder, they then decided they'd take it as it was.
When Mum in Law did we had a Bungalow to sell, lot's of interest for Bungalow's, put it out for offers at or over £xxx.
Stripped the carpet out of the lounge which was a little thread bare in front of her chair, carpet in bedroom had something spilled on it so that went as well, took out a badly fitted wardrobe.
Got rid of washing machine and Fridge Freezer on Freecycle.
I put a new radiator in the bathroom because of rust around the bottom ports, didn't fancy that leaking whilst it was empty.
Good vac and wipe down paintwork, double glazed although likely 25+ years old, Central heating Boiler around 5 years old, serviced every year. Composite door around 3 years old.
Sister in law wanted to come in and Magnolia all the walls and paint the woodwork white, EA said don't bother most folk want to paint whatever colour they want.
Offered to the highest bidder, they wanted it for a BTL, and who started to then try knock the price down , because there was no warranty for the boiler or glazing, the electrics they wanted an electrician to come and give it a check over.
I'd had enough at this point and told them to forget it and we'd go with the next highest bidder, they then decided they'd take it as it was.
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