Upgrading bathroom extractor
Discussion
Having mould issues in the main bathroom despite having a switched extractor above the shower that ports to the outside via an inline fan in the loft space. Kids (mostly) open windows but it was resulted in peeling paint and needing to strip the ceiling.
Want to upgrade it and plumber has quoted £750+vat for that, new ducting plus two spots which feels like a lot.
Can anyone sense check this and say if 1) we are doing the right thing and given the fan itself seems to be circa £100 if this is reasonable given everyone needs a profit
[url] [/img]
Fan proposed is a 150 - https://www.manrose.co.uk/product/mf150s-mixflo-co...
![](https://forums-images.pistonheads.com/254970/202602266280888?resize=720[/img]</a> <a href="https://forums-images.pistonheads.com/254970/202602266335327" Target="_blank" >[img]https://forums-images.pistonheads.com/254970/202602266335327?resize=720)
Want to upgrade it and plumber has quoted £750+vat for that, new ducting plus two spots which feels like a lot.
Can anyone sense check this and say if 1) we are doing the right thing and given the fan itself seems to be circa £100 if this is reasonable given everyone needs a profit
[url] [/img]
Fan proposed is a 150 - https://www.manrose.co.uk/product/mf150s-mixflo-co...
Edited by MarkGArgyle on Thursday 26th February 17:36
Edited by MarkGArgyle on Thursday 26th February 17:38
That is a lot for what is an hours work, is the new fan any bigger than the old one as it may not make much difference.
Worth checking your ducting has not been run in a silly route and is free to vent the other end.
Inline fans are normally pretty good to be fair, does it get switched on every shower and allowed to run for a few minutes afterwards?
Worth checking your ducting has not been run in a silly route and is free to vent the other end.
Inline fans are normally pretty good to be fair, does it get switched on every shower and allowed to run for a few minutes afterwards?
DorsetSparky said:
That's mental. Are you DIY handy? It's not a hard job to do it yourself. Or get a local sparky in who wants the work. We regularly fit these, you don't need a plumber!
Mental was my first thought, not really diy handy with electrics nor gas. Will get another quote I think! Thank for the quick reply.Belle427 said:
That is a lot for what is an hours work, is the new fan any bigger than the old one as it may not make much difference.
Worth checking your ducting has not been run in a silly route and is free to vent the other end.
Inline fans are normally pretty good to be fair, does it get switched on every shower and allowed to run for a few minutes afterwards?
Thanks - I will get up there at the weekend and check the vent to make sure it is not blocked. Yes it does run but I am not convinced it gets switched on every shower as the kids mainly use the bathroom not us.Worth checking your ducting has not been run in a silly route and is free to vent the other end.
Inline fans are normally pretty good to be fair, does it get switched on every shower and allowed to run for a few minutes afterwards?
That said, it only became an issue in the last year or two and we have lived there for 5yrs now so presumed the fan is on it’s way out.
It's hardly a complicated setup for anyone who can use a screwdriver.
I suspect it wouldn't hurt to have insulated ducting with the fan not sitting at the bottom of a sump.
Swapping the fan isn't difficult, beyond that it's just making sure it has the right trigger and run-on to do the job. PIR & integrated moisture sensor?
PS this isn't a plumbing job, it's electrical, and toy stuff at that for the most part.
I suspect it wouldn't hurt to have insulated ducting with the fan not sitting at the bottom of a sump.
Swapping the fan isn't difficult, beyond that it's just making sure it has the right trigger and run-on to do the job. PIR & integrated moisture sensor?
PS this isn't a plumbing job, it's electrical, and toy stuff at that for the most part.
JoshSm said:
It's hardly a complicated setup for anyone who can use a screwdriver.
I suspect it wouldn't hurt to have insulated ducting with the fan not sitting at the bottom of a sump.
Swapping the fan isn't difficult, beyond that it's just making sure it has the right trigger and run-on to do the job. PIR & integrated moisture sensor?
PS this isn't a plumbing job, it's electrical, and toy stuff at that for the most part.
Yup - and I'm 99.99999% sure that there's no gas involved either.I suspect it wouldn't hurt to have insulated ducting with the fan not sitting at the bottom of a sump.
Swapping the fan isn't difficult, beyond that it's just making sure it has the right trigger and run-on to do the job. PIR & integrated moisture sensor?
PS this isn't a plumbing job, it's electrical, and toy stuff at that for the most part.
OP - can you wire a plug? If you can, then you can do this.
However, you can make it more complicated / sophisticated / annoying by wiring and configuring the fan so that it comes on every time the bathroom light is switched on. You can also configure a run-on period, so it continues to run for anything up to 30 minutes after the light is turned off. You can also buy fans that measure the humidity and turn themselves on and off according to that. However - we have the fan linked to lights in 2 bathrooms and they've both been permanently turned off for the past 20 years.
Agree, we had it quoted at the same time as the boiler service, hence the plumber connection but they are likely subbing it to a sparky and I am getting margin on margin plus a buggeration factor I think.
Good points made, will check and close out this for others once I have more details and decision / new costs.
Good points made, will check and close out this for others once I have more details and decision / new costs.
That’s a lot of money for a fan and some ductwork.
As someone else said if you can run the ducting in rigid PVC not that flexible s
te.
The fan should be raised
The ducting between the fan and the extraction point should be angled slightly so condensate runs back into the bathroom.
The duct should also run down at a slight angle between the fan and the facade.
You could insulate the ductwork to prevent / mitigate the condensation too.
As someone else said if you can run the ducting in rigid PVC not that flexible s
te.The fan should be raised
The ducting between the fan and the extraction point should be angled slightly so condensate runs back into the bathroom.
The duct should also run down at a slight angle between the fan and the facade.
You could insulate the ductwork to prevent / mitigate the condensation too.
Ignore the £750 quote that's ridiculous.
This would be my order of things.
Is the fan definitely coming on?
How long is the overrun? Ours is set to about 30mins.
What speed is the fan set? Some of them have low medium high.
Swap the concertina ducting for solid and smooth the run as much as possible.
This would be my order of things.
Is the fan definitely coming on?
How long is the overrun? Ours is set to about 30mins.
What speed is the fan set? Some of them have low medium high.
Swap the concertina ducting for solid and smooth the run as much as possible.
That's a lot of money.
As it happens, I've just replaced an extractor fan myself, and in basic hardware terms it was roughly:
Cheapo 4" inline fan £25 (this is stupidly cheap, but if it goes pop I'll just buy a "proper" one)
4" concertina ducting £5 (not insulated, as this isn't for moist air, so not concerned about condensing)
Ceiling vent £8
Jubilee clips for the joints £7
As it happens, I've just replaced an extractor fan myself, and in basic hardware terms it was roughly:
Cheapo 4" inline fan £25 (this is stupidly cheap, but if it goes pop I'll just buy a "proper" one)
4" concertina ducting £5 (not insulated, as this isn't for moist air, so not concerned about condensing)
Ceiling vent £8
Jubilee clips for the joints £7
MarkGArgyle said:
Having mould issues in the main bathroom despite having a switched extractor above the shower that ports to the outside via an inline fan in the loft space. Kids (mostly) open windows but it was resulted in peeling paint and needing to strip the ceiling.
Want to upgrade it and plumber has quoted £750+vat for that, new ducting plus two spots which feels like a lot.
Can anyone sense check this and say if 1) we are doing the right thing and given the fan itself seems to be circa £100 if this is reasonable given everyone needs a profit
Are people missing the bold bit above? Even so, it is a lot, but it's not off-the-scale ridiculous, assuming new wiring is needed for the spots, holes cut in the ceiling etc. I don't know how much spots are, but for a bathroom they are sealed units.Want to upgrade it and plumber has quoted £750+vat for that, new ducting plus two spots which feels like a lot.
Can anyone sense check this and say if 1) we are doing the right thing and given the fan itself seems to be circa £100 if this is reasonable given everyone needs a profit
I think your ducting run is too long, personally - nearly all the moisture is going to condense before it is blown out the top. I assume that the wall behind the fan is the tile-hung wall in the other picture? Otherwise I'd be putting a vent as close to the fan as possible. Or better yet putting an inline fan in the wall.
You want a fan with a 'run on timer' so it runs for a good while (20 minutes?) after the light is switched off.
That tends to negate condensation issues in the ducting as well as clearing the room properly.
Alternatively you could consider a humidistat controlled fan.
That's an option if you don't want the fan coming on for 20 minutes in the middle of the night when someone goes for a pee.
That may not matter if you can put the inline fan over a non-bedroom, like a study or something, so it doesn't annoy anyone.
There are other solutions like nightlights controlled by movement sensors.
For down lights in a bathroom, you can get suitable ones from Toolstation for about a tenner each, I use the 'fire rated' ones, which avoid water vapour getting through the ceiling into the loft.
That tends to negate condensation issues in the ducting as well as clearing the room properly.
Alternatively you could consider a humidistat controlled fan.
That's an option if you don't want the fan coming on for 20 minutes in the middle of the night when someone goes for a pee.
That may not matter if you can put the inline fan over a non-bedroom, like a study or something, so it doesn't annoy anyone.
There are other solutions like nightlights controlled by movement sensors.
For down lights in a bathroom, you can get suitable ones from Toolstation for about a tenner each, I use the 'fire rated' ones, which avoid water vapour getting through the ceiling into the loft.
To be fair I thought the picture of the fan in the loft was your set up.
You really want to bin that passive stack chimney thing and put a soffit vent in.
If the bathroom is on an external wall a through the wall fan might be the option.
You may also want to consider a DMEV type fan that runs at a low speed continuously and then boosts to a higher speed when you turn the light on, or via a humidistat, or even via a pull cord if you like that sort of thing.
If you want to go down that route I can probably sort you out some mates rates. (I don’t want to fall foul of PH rules though so PM me)
You really want to bin that passive stack chimney thing and put a soffit vent in.
If the bathroom is on an external wall a through the wall fan might be the option.
You may also want to consider a DMEV type fan that runs at a low speed continuously and then boosts to a higher speed when you turn the light on, or via a humidistat, or even via a pull cord if you like that sort of thing.
If you want to go down that route I can probably sort you out some mates rates. (I don’t want to fall foul of PH rules though so PM me)
Bearing in mind the bathroom already has lights and easy access above, it's still quite a steep price.
Replace the fan like for like = 30 minutes
Install two new spots assumiing no wiring or holes = 90 minutes
Call it 30 minutes if it's just replacing existing fittings.
I'm being quite generous there.
Replace the fan like for like = 30 minutes
Install two new spots assumiing no wiring or holes = 90 minutes
Call it 30 minutes if it's just replacing existing fittings.
I'm being quite generous there.
archie456 said:
If that is in a cold loft you will get a lot of condensation forming in the pipe.
It will run down and pool at the pump and likely kill it in time.
For a vertical duct run in an uninsulated space, there should be a condensate trap and drain. It will run down and pool at the pump and likely kill it in time.
You definitely want it done with rigid ducting. It is much more efficient that cheapo flexible duct.
People seem to have missed that he’s been quoted for 150mm fan. Presumably you have 100mm already? Depending on the cost of the lights, the quote isn’t outrageous if he’s needing to upgrade the extract vent through the roof/wall and the extract point in the bathroom ceiling.
I use the Manrose ones (they’re not bad) but, if you have the space and budget, consider a Soler & Palau TD-Silent: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Ventilatio...
If the photo of the loft space is the plumber showing an example of his previous work, choose someone else!
shtu said:
Bearing in mind the bathroom already has lights and easy access above, it's still quite a steep price.
Replace the fan like for like = 30 minutes
Install two new spots assumiing no wiring or holes = 90 minutes
Call it 30 minutes if it's just replacing existing fittings.
I'm being quite generous there.
When are you collecting the parts, doing the paperwork, disposing of your waste? Replace the fan like for like = 30 minutes
Install two new spots assumiing no wiring or holes = 90 minutes
Call it 30 minutes if it's just replacing existing fittings.
I'm being quite generous there.
£750 is steep but I would have thought half a day would be sufficient
He just doesn’t want the job.
Technically air is a gas, so it is gas work....
Looks like the fan has sunk into your insulation, and has caused a dip, so is now full of water. I would stick some planks across the rafters, stick the fan on the plank and route the ducting so there is no dip, and check that fan still works. Similar inline fan I know of was full of water for 4 years, you could hear the blades splashing through water, eventually managed to leave the fan on long enough to blow the water through, works fine now, just have to leave the fan running long enough to dry out the ductwork.
I am a happy customer of "Ducting online" if you want any rigid ducting and fans, but a quick look they dont have any condensation traps that might help.
Yes, I know gas is gas and air is not gas, but it is A gas!
Looks like the fan has sunk into your insulation, and has caused a dip, so is now full of water. I would stick some planks across the rafters, stick the fan on the plank and route the ducting so there is no dip, and check that fan still works. Similar inline fan I know of was full of water for 4 years, you could hear the blades splashing through water, eventually managed to leave the fan on long enough to blow the water through, works fine now, just have to leave the fan running long enough to dry out the ductwork.
I am a happy customer of "Ducting online" if you want any rigid ducting and fans, but a quick look they dont have any condensation traps that might help.
Yes, I know gas is gas and air is not gas, but it is A gas!
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