Gas supply pipe - from metal to plastic - bodge job?
Discussion
Northern Gas have been changing gas supply pipes that run to properties in our area from metal to plastic. Most of the houses, including ours, are of an age that preceeded the use of plastic pipes. The rational by Northern Gas is that it is a regulatory requirement, and they are planning long term for houses to use hydrogen gas.
As homeowners, we do not get a say in it, so Northern Gas can excavate around a house to find a pipe and do what is necessary. In our case, they could not trace the metal pipe reliably and lifted a lot of flag stones promising that everything will be laid back as before with 'a 2 year guarantee'.
Our gas meter is located in a little room out the back of the house, together with boiler and electric supply. It was all a very neat arrangement with a metal pipe coming up through a concrete floor, plumbed into the gas meter. Not any more.
They found the pipe, lifted flags in an area where we stored logs, and fitted a metal pipe on the outside of the wall, running the plastic up through it, then through a hole they have put in the wall. It is then connected with a a kind of T-piece into the gas meter. I was hoping that they would replace 'like for like' and run the entirity of the new piping inside the room, potentially sliding it up the existing metal pipe. They said it was not possible and did what they did.
So now, we have a new pipe in the way (and it is not even straight), a flag stone that no longer fits (it needs a hole cutting in it, but they have slid it forward a couple of inches and filled the gap at the back with mortar) and the old metal pipe still in situ.
Photos:
Is there anyone here in the industry or had experience of this kind of job beeing done that can comment please? I would like to know if it was technically possible to re-use the original route, and then we can put everything back to how it was. It may be that the plastic pipe is too wide to run up the inside wall in the existing metal pipe, but could that whole piece have been replaced like they did outside, but inside? At the moment, it feels like a bodge.
Thanks.
As homeowners, we do not get a say in it, so Northern Gas can excavate around a house to find a pipe and do what is necessary. In our case, they could not trace the metal pipe reliably and lifted a lot of flag stones promising that everything will be laid back as before with 'a 2 year guarantee'.
Our gas meter is located in a little room out the back of the house, together with boiler and electric supply. It was all a very neat arrangement with a metal pipe coming up through a concrete floor, plumbed into the gas meter. Not any more.
They found the pipe, lifted flags in an area where we stored logs, and fitted a metal pipe on the outside of the wall, running the plastic up through it, then through a hole they have put in the wall. It is then connected with a a kind of T-piece into the gas meter. I was hoping that they would replace 'like for like' and run the entirity of the new piping inside the room, potentially sliding it up the existing metal pipe. They said it was not possible and did what they did.
So now, we have a new pipe in the way (and it is not even straight), a flag stone that no longer fits (it needs a hole cutting in it, but they have slid it forward a couple of inches and filled the gap at the back with mortar) and the old metal pipe still in situ.
Photos:
Is there anyone here in the industry or had experience of this kind of job beeing done that can comment please? I would like to know if it was technically possible to re-use the original route, and then we can put everything back to how it was. It may be that the plastic pipe is too wide to run up the inside wall in the existing metal pipe, but could that whole piece have been replaced like they did outside, but inside? At the moment, it feels like a bodge.
Thanks.
Edited by TUS373 on Wednesday 11th March 09:23
Update: think I am going to have a run in with these people.
They cut that flag stone to size. So while they could have cut a slot in the flag to go around the pipe, they simply chopped the end of the flag off, and filled the entire gap with mortar.
They have also missed replacing a ker stone and in spectacular fashion have....tarmacced my neighbour's lawn. Unless they come back to sort that out!
They cut that flag stone to size. So while they could have cut a slot in the flag to go around the pipe, they simply chopped the end of the flag off, and filled the entire gap with mortar.
They have also missed replacing a ker stone and in spectacular fashion have....tarmacced my neighbour's lawn. Unless they come back to sort that out!
I would be really annoyed too. I hate this kind of “oh, that’ll do” job. You can kick up a fuss as much as you like but everyone reading this knows that if you want it done properly you’ll have to sort it yourself. By all means complain because you might get lucky but this has got ‘months of grief’ written all over it.
cb31 said:
I'm no expert at all, but if the rationale is they need plastic to make it suitable for hydrogen in the future, surely it needs to be all plastic? There seems to be metal bits in your pictures.
Every day is a learning day - the Uk has already started to blend hyrdogen into the regular gas. It is a transition expected over 25 years with 2050 being the target for complete changeover. We may just end up refilling our hydrogen fuel cell cars at home in the future. I certainly won't be driving still then though.The metal part inserts into the plastic. There is stinky gunk overy everything so I assume they seal the connection with this stuff. Does look like a weak point/flaw though!
Your best bet is to raise a complaint (emphasise this when you phone them) and ask for a manager to come out and inspect the works and check if that was the only option available to them. Once you raise it as a complaint NGN will need to respond and resolve this with a site visit within 5 days but they will do their best to resolve within 2 days, but as there is so much work to do this isn't going to happen.
Ask if they could have inserted the new pipe to the original position or moved the meter to an external position ( if you're willing to accept an outside meter box being visible)
That reinstatement is terrible and should be returned to how it was previously, including redoing the tarmac and reseeding the grass and being squared off properly.
Ask if they could have inserted the new pipe to the original position or moved the meter to an external position ( if you're willing to accept an outside meter box being visible)
That reinstatement is terrible and should be returned to how it was previously, including redoing the tarmac and reseeding the grass and being squared off properly.
What a mess.
Ours they just smashed out the junction at the main (which was also being updated with plastic), undid the valve & whatever near the meter, and shoved a new plastic pipe through inside the original metal one & straight through the siphon.
Was slightly impressive watching them doing a rolling upgrade on a live main by just bunging up the open ends as they went.
Ours they just smashed out the junction at the main (which was also being updated with plastic), undid the valve & whatever near the meter, and shoved a new plastic pipe through inside the original metal one & straight through the siphon.
Was slightly impressive watching them doing a rolling upgrade on a live main by just bunging up the open ends as they went.
We had to have our meter moved last year as it was in the way of our extension work. We were told that regulations mean you can't run a gas main underneath buildings, probably explains why they've run it up the outside of your wall. Doesn't excuse the shoddy workmanship though. Cadent did the move for us and made a decent job of making good
JoshSm said:
What a mess.
Ours they just smashed out the junction at the main (which was also being updated with plastic), undid the valve & whatever near the meter, and shoved a new plastic pipe through inside the original metal one & straight through the siphon.
Was slightly impressive watching them doing a rolling upgrade on a live main by just bunging up the open ends as they went.
I ran a business recently and their main work was creating connections to live gas and water mains, so they would essentially drill into live running gas and water pipes to install new valves without interrupting the flow or supply to existing users - this including 24" mains and beyond!Ours they just smashed out the junction at the main (which was also being updated with plastic), undid the valve & whatever near the meter, and shoved a new plastic pipe through inside the original metal one & straight through the siphon.
Was slightly impressive watching them doing a rolling upgrade on a live main by just bunging up the open ends as they went.
The biggest take away for me was though that we are all aware that water pipes tend to be leaky but as it turns out the gas network is just as leaky but because the pressures are so low nobody really worries about it unless it is a very big leak!
Northern Gas have said they can't take the old steel pipe out, so now.....I have a vestigial one capped by the meter. They can't just cut the pipe because of the risk of leaking gas finding its way up the old pipe. If they cut the pipe short, there is no thread to put a cap on. The whole experience is crap. Someone trashes your property, against your will, and dont make a tidy job. We are in the 21s century, yet they can't put a whole in a wall low down and cap a pipe off underground.
Regs don't permit plastic pipe inside. That's why they have now had to install it outside like they have.
I'm not sure about that plastic tail being inside. One of the reasons you can't have plastic gas pipe inside is that it can melt in a fire.
https://www.gtc-uk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/1...
Is that a cavity wall?
I'm not sure about that plastic tail being inside. One of the reasons you can't have plastic gas pipe inside is that it can melt in a fire.
https://www.gtc-uk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/1...
Is that a cavity wall?
GasEngineer said:
Regs don't permit plastic pipe inside. That's why they have now had to install it outside like they have.
I'm not sure about that plastic tail being inside. One of the reasons you can't have plastic gas pipe inside is that it can melt in a fire.
https://www.gtc-uk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/1...
Is that a cavity wall?
That is a very good point. The regulations and what can be done have varied with every person who has visited. They said cannot have an uncapped pipe because it is inside, but then as you say, the plastic end is clearly unprotected from fire.I'm not sure about that plastic tail being inside. One of the reasons you can't have plastic gas pipe inside is that it can melt in a fire.
https://www.gtc-uk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/1...
Is that a cavity wall?
TUS373 said:
That is a very good point. The regulations and what can be done have varied with every person who has visited. They said cannot have an uncapped pipe because it is inside, but then as you say, the plastic end is clearly unprotected from fire.
That’s just a sleeve, it’s steel inside. It’s purpose made through wall fitting.The ground reinstatement is appalling though.
I had a listed house in the UK. When I bought it ,it had been converted into 7 bedsits in the 60s and I turned it back into 1 house. The gas supply was around a metre below ground level and the meters were in the cellar .
I had to put a single new meter in rather than have 7 . I was told I had to have an external one . I had the British Gas surveyor round to look at the job . The solution was a ground level meter box as I couldnt have a wall mounted one due to the listing.
The job was scheduled for a couple of months later. I came home from work to find they had mounted the ground level meter box a metre up the wall and I was in time to stop them drilling through the wall and into the casement that housed the shutters for the sash windows.
They had totally ignored the job sheet and used their initiative .
I had to put a single new meter in rather than have 7 . I was told I had to have an external one . I had the British Gas surveyor round to look at the job . The solution was a ground level meter box as I couldnt have a wall mounted one due to the listing.
The job was scheduled for a couple of months later. I came home from work to find they had mounted the ground level meter box a metre up the wall and I was in time to stop them drilling through the wall and into the casement that housed the shutters for the sash windows.
They had totally ignored the job sheet and used their initiative .
TUS373 said:
Yes...but that pipe is somewhat in the way. We had logs stacked up there in racks that will now not fit. They were made to fit the available space.
I think you may find they say, "Well, if you don't want gas any more we can remove it". Regulations, innit.We had to push back firmly when they made the change because they originally wanted to install the meter outside in a meter cabinet at the front of the house. After some pushing and shoving they agreed to run a copper pipe internally between the new "T" through the wall and the existing meter. They wouldn't remove the old metal pipe but they capped it off to prevent gas entering the building if there's a leak out in the road, just like yours.
In your installation it would have been so much tidier if they'd gone through the wall as low as possible and used some copper pipe inside to get to the flexible connector. I guess you could try to get them to do that although there's no escaping the fact the new T through the wall will still be there, and you'll have a patch in the wall higher up. From recollection I think they had to call a different guy to site from their team to do that internal pipework. Ours enters the building about 45 cm above the ground so it was reasonably easy to conceal.
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