Re-filling home aircon
Discussion
Do you think there will be a problem with re-filling a home aircon with the gas you can get off ebay to re-gas cars with. I know you aren't supposed to use R134 in home units for whatever reason but the gas you can get off ebay/amazon isn't R134, its an alternative for DIY use. I've got the kit to do it and have re-filled various cars in the past without any problems.
Also how much roughly do you think it would take, its a 12k BTU split unit I think. I've found about 1 1/2 cans does a car ok and what is the reason they say you cant use R134 in home units, a refrigerant is a refrigerant isn't it. Is it just for kitten and polar bear issues or is there a practical reason.
PS - yes I know you should go down to the nearest gram of gas using scales etc and its all very scientific but even if I knew the specific figure I would have no way of measuring it so in the past I've put a bit of oil in and then then the gas until the pressure looks something like correct and the cars/vans I've done in the past have lasted years, even colder than the original version.
Also how much roughly do you think it would take, its a 12k BTU split unit I think. I've found about 1 1/2 cans does a car ok and what is the reason they say you cant use R134 in home units, a refrigerant is a refrigerant isn't it. Is it just for kitten and polar bear issues or is there a practical reason.
PS - yes I know you should go down to the nearest gram of gas using scales etc and its all very scientific but even if I knew the specific figure I would have no way of measuring it so in the past I've put a bit of oil in and then then the gas until the pressure looks something like correct and the cars/vans I've done in the past have lasted years, even colder than the original version.
normalbloke said:
Sounds like you ve made your mind up already, crack on.
I have kind of, I cant see what difference it makes but if someone was to reply that it will completely wreck the internals of it in a few days then I'll get someone in to re-gas it properly, I've done a vacuum check on it and it holds a vacuum fine so it should be a straight forward job, apart from the fact you now have to go up a wobbly scaffold and dance across a pitched roof to get to it so it may put a less adventurous engineer off a bit.Danns said:
Frane Selak said:
Do you think there will be a problem
Yes.Frane Selak said:
a refrigerant is a refrigerant isn't it.
No, they operate at different pressures / boiling temp / superheat / sub cool / flammable / non flammable to name a few parameters. Home aircon will be most likely be R410a unless newer which are R32.
Banging a load of R123a in there is a recipe for disaster.
Rough101 said:
Danns said:
Frane Selak said:
Do you think there will be a problem
Yes.Frane Selak said:
a refrigerant is a refrigerant isn't it.
No, they operate at different pressures / boiling temp / superheat / sub cool / flammable / non flammable to name a few parameters. Home aircon will be most likely be R410a unless newer which are R32.
Banging a load of R123a in there is a recipe for disaster.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/376121799140
OutInTheShed said:
Clearly.
You've got to love these one word answers, if you know its not propane then why not say what it is? Is it so you can show yourself more intelligent than me.All that answer has told me is to not bother posting anything if I know the answer to someone else's problem as I'm obviously far superior to them and thats how it will stay.
PS - JFYI, no one has took a gasp of admiration and gone wow what a guy at your little quip.
Frane Selak said:
Do you think there will be a problem with re-filling a home aircon with the gas you can get off ebay to re-gas cars with. I know you aren't supposed to use R134 in home units for whatever reason but the gas you can get off ebay/amazon isn't R134, its an alternative for DIY use. I've got the kit to do it and have re-filled various cars in the past without any problems.
Also how much roughly do you think it would take, its a 12k BTU split unit I think. I've found about 1 1/2 cans does a car ok and what is the reason they say you cant use R134 in home units, a refrigerant is a refrigerant isn't it. Is it just for kitten and polar bear issues or is there a practical reason.
PS - yes I know you should go down to the nearest gram of gas using scales etc and its all very scientific but even if I knew the specific figure I would have no way of measuring it so in the past I've put a bit of oil in and then then the gas until the pressure looks something like correct and the cars/vans I've done in the past have lasted years, even colder than the original version.
AI OverviewAlso how much roughly do you think it would take, its a 12k BTU split unit I think. I've found about 1 1/2 cans does a car ok and what is the reason they say you cant use R134 in home units, a refrigerant is a refrigerant isn't it. Is it just for kitten and polar bear issues or is there a practical reason.
PS - yes I know you should go down to the nearest gram of gas using scales etc and its all very scientific but even if I knew the specific figure I would have no way of measuring it so in the past I've put a bit of oil in and then then the gas until the pressure looks something like correct and the cars/vans I've done in the past have lasted years, even colder than the original version.
Yes, there is a very high likelihood of significant problems if you use DIY car refrigerant (often a mix of propane/isobutane) to refill a home split-unit air conditioner.
While it is true that a refrigerant is a gas, car systems and home systems are vastly different in their operating pressures, oil requirements, and overall design.
Here is a breakdown of why this is considered a bad idea, rather than just an environmental concern:
1. Major Practical RisksCompressor Failure (Oil Incompatibility): Home units use specialized oil (usually POE or PVE) designed for high-pressure HFC/HFO refrigerants like R410A or R32. DIY car kits contain additives and "stop-leak" that can react with the home system's oil, creating sludge, blocking the capillary tubes, and destroying the compressor.Pressure Differences: A 12k BTU split unit often uses R410A, which operates at nearly double the pressure of a car's R134a system. Using a lower-pressure gas or a "drop-in" alternative in a high-pressure system will cause improper cooling, constant freezing, and, due to constant over-working, a failed compressor.Flammability: Many "DIY alternatives" bought online contain flammable hydrocarbons (propane/butane). While popular in cars, injecting these into a sealed, high-pressure residential unit that might have a electrical leak poses a significant fire hazard.Contaminating the System: Home AC systems must be properly evacuated with a vacuum pump to remove moisture. Simply adding gas over existing air/moisture results in acids forming inside the unit, eating away at the copper coils from the inside.
2. Why "A Refrigerant isn't just a Refrigerant"Car aircon (mobile) is designed to operate in short bursts and withstand massive vibrations, using low-pressure, flexible hoses. Home aircon (stationary) is designed for 24/7, high-efficiency operation using rigid copper piping designed to hold specific, high-pressure refrigerants.
3. How Much Gas (The 12k BTU Unit)A standard 12k BTU (1-ton) split unit typically requires around 700g to 1kg+ of refrigerant (e.g., R410A or R32).Your experience: You stated you use 1 1/2 cans on a car.The Problem: Without weighing it, you will likely either "starve" the system (low pressure) or overcharge it. Overcharging is just as dangerous, causing liquid to return to the compressor (liquid slugging), which ruins it instantly.
Summary
Using DIY car gas to refill a home AC unit is often called a "death sentence" for the compressor by professionals. The car kits you buy are designed for low-pressure, flexible car systems, not the high-pressure, fixed-line systems used in homes.Disclaimer: Attempting this can ruin your unit and cause safety risks. Always use a professional HVAC technician.
I think AI is ultimately suggesting that you use some common-sense, in which department it seems you are CLEARLY lacking . . .
No offence.
I appreciate the replies (some of them) I really do but here's what AI says about propane.
Propane (R290) is an increasingly popular, eco-friendly, and highly efficient natural refrigerant used in modern residential AC units, particularly in Europe. It has a very low Global Warming Potential (GWP) of 3 and excellent thermodynamic properties. However, because R290 is highly flammable, its use is strictly regulated, with specific safety limitations on refrigerant charge amounts in residential settings.
Coupled with the fact its a Chinese self fit Electriq 10 year old £400 unit that probably never had genuine gas in it in the first place I reckon its worth a go if the worst that will happen is it breaks.
Another bit of AI
Electriq air conditioners primarily use R290 refrigerant gas. R290 is an eco-friendly propane-based refrigerant with a low global warming potential (GWP) of 3 and is commonly used in portable units to comply with European environmental directives.
Propane (R290) is an increasingly popular, eco-friendly, and highly efficient natural refrigerant used in modern residential AC units, particularly in Europe. It has a very low Global Warming Potential (GWP) of 3 and excellent thermodynamic properties. However, because R290 is highly flammable, its use is strictly regulated, with specific safety limitations on refrigerant charge amounts in residential settings.
Coupled with the fact its a Chinese self fit Electriq 10 year old £400 unit that probably never had genuine gas in it in the first place I reckon its worth a go if the worst that will happen is it breaks.
Another bit of AI
Electriq air conditioners primarily use R290 refrigerant gas. R290 is an eco-friendly propane-based refrigerant with a low global warming potential (GWP) of 3 and is commonly used in portable units to comply with European environmental directives.
Edited by Frane Selak on Saturday 2nd May 22:04
No
Unless you can prove otherwise from the what should be bleedin obvious sticker on the side…
Pre tightening of fgas regs (10 years ago) the chances are the electriq unit is 410a or r32.
This idea of yours isn’t going to work, put it to bed now and either buy a new r290 system from electriq or have someone qualified and experienced come in.
You’ve also not suggested how you are going to find the leak which has caused this to need to be topped up.
Unless you can prove otherwise from the what should be bleedin obvious sticker on the side…
Pre tightening of fgas regs (10 years ago) the chances are the electriq unit is 410a or r32.
This idea of yours isn’t going to work, put it to bed now and either buy a new r290 system from electriq or have someone qualified and experienced come in.
You’ve also not suggested how you are going to find the leak which has caused this to need to be topped up.
Danns said:
No
Unless you can prove otherwise from the what should be bleedin obvious sticker on the side
Pre tightening of fgas regs (10 years ago) the chances are the electriq unit is 410a or r32.
This idea of yours isn t going to work, put it to bed now and either buy a new r290 system from electriq or have someone qualified and experienced come in.
You ve also not suggested how you are going to find the leak which has caused this to need to be topped up.
I'm going to try some of this in it I think.Unless you can prove otherwise from the what should be bleedin obvious sticker on the side
Pre tightening of fgas regs (10 years ago) the chances are the electriq unit is 410a or r32.
This idea of yours isn t going to work, put it to bed now and either buy a new r290 system from electriq or have someone qualified and experienced come in.
You ve also not suggested how you are going to find the leak which has caused this to need to be topped up.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/136790762826?_skw=r290+...
Edited by Frane Selak on Sunday 3rd May 09:03
Edited by Frane Selak on Sunday 3rd May 09:04
This is basically the same as saying petrol and diesel are both just derived from oil so just go and stick which ever you want in your car.
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Refrigeration gases are all very different and the systems are designed to run on specific ones. They have the the relevant pressures, volumes and seal materials to suit.
It is possible to change gasses in some very specific situations if done right, but that needs specifying and calculations to make sure it will work. Gasses have been made illegal so replacements have been made for them to go in those systems but tend to suffer a performance downgrade as it doesn't run optimally.
We have systems running on R32, R134, R404, R410, R449, R452 and R717 at my work.
Automotive air con connectors are different to domestic/commercial system connectors so the refill kits shouldn't fit.
Why do you need to refill it? If it's lost it's gas then have your sorted the cause of the leak?
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Refrigeration gases are all very different and the systems are designed to run on specific ones. They have the the relevant pressures, volumes and seal materials to suit.
It is possible to change gasses in some very specific situations if done right, but that needs specifying and calculations to make sure it will work. Gasses have been made illegal so replacements have been made for them to go in those systems but tend to suffer a performance downgrade as it doesn't run optimally.
We have systems running on R32, R134, R404, R410, R449, R452 and R717 at my work.
Automotive air con connectors are different to domestic/commercial system connectors so the refill kits shouldn't fit.
Why do you need to refill it? If it's lost it's gas then have your sorted the cause of the leak?
Ah I see you replied while I typed.
You vented the gas deliberately, made no attention to recover and either save it to refill the system or take it for disposal.
All of which is illegal and subject to up to £200k in fines.
It would probably be best to get this thread deleted and just go about doing whatever you want to,several people have told you it's not right to do as suggested and you have just said you will do it anyway.
So this thread serves no purpose other than to incriminate your self.
You vented the gas deliberately, made no attention to recover and either save it to refill the system or take it for disposal.
All of which is illegal and subject to up to £200k in fines.
It would probably be best to get this thread deleted and just go about doing whatever you want to,several people have told you it's not right to do as suggested and you have just said you will do it anyway.
So this thread serves no purpose other than to incriminate your self.
I also question the mentality of wanting to regas a 10 year old system from questionable origins built to the cheapest price possible.
Even by some stroke of luck you accidentally get it right, and ignoring all regs being contravened something else is going to give up in a year.
Save yourself the effort, if you have to, get a new r290 system for around £500 and install properly.
I’d suggest ontop of the kit you have, nitrogen + a regulator will also be required (despite the shonky electriq installation manual bypassing the need for a pressure and vacuum test)
Even by some stroke of luck you accidentally get it right, and ignoring all regs being contravened something else is going to give up in a year.
Save yourself the effort, if you have to, get a new r290 system for around £500 and install properly.
I’d suggest ontop of the kit you have, nitrogen + a regulator will also be required (despite the shonky electriq installation manual bypassing the need for a pressure and vacuum test)
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