Fire door failed... who do I need?

[AB]

Mother in law lives in a block of flats, all owned, and all have had their front doors fail for one reason or another.



She sent me this.

Who do I need to contact? She said they need to be qualified and approved.

Thanks.

[Groomio]

If there is a management company then they should be looking after this on behalf of the owners.

I own my flat but we have a management company who made all the arrangements for fitting and an inspection afterwards. The doors are not cheap, around £1300 I think. You'll need to find a local supplier who can supply and fit to the relevant standard.

Flat entrance fire doors in the UK are legally mandated to provide a minimum of 30 minutes of fire resistance (rated FD30) and must be self-closing with intumescent strips and smoke seals to protect communal escape routes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...

[netherfield]

Local joinery firm fitted ours between garage and house, and another were the central heating boiler lives.

[LooneyTunes]

Does it *actually* need replacing? I don’t own any flats but it could be the case that there is an absolute minimum spec vs a recommended one?

The “too thin” comment seems to be based on it being 0.2mm below 44mm, seemingly measured with a tape measure rather than calipers, yet there are vendors selling 35mm thick FD30s: https://www.doorsonlineuk.co.uk/fire-doors/35mm-fi...

Worth checking because it’d be easy to see this being a nice money maker for someone wanting to sell doors.

[Little Lofty]

Adjust the gaps but replace with new doorset, I’m confused
I’ve just done this for my cousin, I packed out the hinges with intumescent material so the gaps were even, that’s all they were bothered about.

[AB]

Yes it's confusing, I assumed a joiner could do the work required here but looks like the door is 'to thin' (their words) so presumably they want the whole thing replacing. Apparently they've been told they need to vacate the flats if the work isn't carried out.

[Grey_Area]

It should have a label, usually on the top surface describing the rating, certification, and manufacturer.

Gaps can be adjusted with lipings, rebate also . Thickness is not a universal requirement, just happens to be more usual at 44/45mm. But its construction that counts, hence the label will outline all you should need to know.

No label, then it could be inferred as not meeting the required FD30 standard.

[jules_s]

Grey_Area said:

No label, then it could be inferred as not meeting the required FD30 standard.

Yeah, it could but not having plugs etc shouldn t mean it needs to be replaced if it is a fire door. There are probably millions of unlabelled fire doors

It looks sort of 90 s is it steel faced? If it is 90 s I think I d be pushing the Building control sign off meant it had fire spec doors then tweak them as various posters above have said.

The pics could have been taken of my old flat door!

Edited by jules_s on Saturday 2nd May 19:08

[Nicetobenice]

If your relative is happy with the door why does she need to replace it?

Do the flats all need to be up to latest spec?

[AB]

She's happy with the doors but apparently the regs have changed recently? It's not something I know anything about or have had any involvement with in the past. All I know is that every single resident has had similar letters from the management company who have told them that they need to sort it, not them. I'd have thought if anything they should have to sort it and bill the owners, I'm sure some of them must be rented.

My MiL is not the sharpest tool in the shed and she doesn't have much money hence me saying I'd see what needed to be done and sort it. I also thought I could find someone who could sort them all and do hers for nothing as a finders fee for all the work, such is the way my brain works.

[Nicetobenice]

Is it really necessary to update to the latest regulations?

I could understand it if she was going to rent it out but if she is the owner and she is living there.
It's a different matter if it's a shonky door that was never to regulation.

[AB]

This is what I was hoping to establish but I don't know who to speak to in the first instance. Was mostly hoping there was a fire door expert knocking about PH.

[jules_s]

AB said:

This is what I was hoping to establish but I don't know who to speak to in the first instance. Was mostly hoping there was a fire door expert knocking about PH.

Somebody just posted a link to the .gov advice which is quite clear - I'll re link it below

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...

Paragraph 3 - not 100% conclusive but depends on the location specifics

Edit: the assessor seems to be making an assumption that because the door isn't 44mm thick it isn't a fire door...

Edited by jules_s on Saturday 2nd May 20:12

[Little Lofty]

The management company have to make sure everything is compliant, its all since Grenfell. It’s down to each individual owner to get it sorted unless the management company want to appoint someone. A door that age would have a coloured plug on its edge to prove it is a fire door, newer fire doors have sticky labels that fall off.

[Funk]

Our building had this work carried out back in 2024.

Typically on a lease the front door is the responsibility of the flat owner, however this isn't really the whole story. Most flat fires start within a flat rather than a communal area and the block will either be 'evacuate' or 'shelter in place'. If the former, it should have interlinked fire alarms between all the flats (ie. if one goes off, they all go off and residents evacuate) or the latter the alarms aren't interlinked but each front door should keep fire in/out for at least 30 mins (FD30S-rated). They should self-close (and latch), the tolerance for gaps around the door is 2-4mm, there must be smoke-resistant intumescent seals around the frame, fire-resistant hinges and if there is a large gap to the threshold, drop-down seals can be used (which drop into place when the door is closed).

Whilst our doors themselves met the FD30 standard, many of them were wonky, they needed fire-proof hinges, some needed seals and all needed self-closers fitting. As we all needed the work done we decided as lessees to club together, have it all done at the same time to the same standard - getting one company in for all the work meant it worked out cheaper per flat. Our block is 'shelter in place' so if a fire breaks out in another flat it should be contained for at least 30 mins and if it makes it to the communal area, our doors should provide a further 30 mins - hopefully the fire brigade are onsite well within that time...

If your MIL's flat policy is shelter in place and the doors don't meet the FD30 spec they'll need to be replaced along with fire-rated hinges, appropriate smoke seals, self-closers etc. It's not really about whether your MIL is 'happy' with her door as another poster asked - if the policy is SIP then all residents have a responsibility to each other to ensure that should the unthinkable happen, everyone has the best possible chance of making it out alive.

We didn't fk about - as soon as we were made aware, we sorted ours. With the doors being FD30-rated and not needing replacing, the cost for the adjusments/hinges/closers etc for all flats came to around £3.5k in total (8 doors plus hallway cupboards).

Edited by Funk on Saturday 2nd May 20:19

[hidetheelephants]

AB said:

Yes it's confusing, I assumed a joiner could do the work required here but looks like the door is 'to thin' (their words) so presumably they want the whole thing replacing. Apparently they've been told they need to vacate the flats if the work isn't carried out.

It's clearly a 44mm door, whoever wrote that is a throbber. Does the door have a label with BS 476 or EN 1634 on it? If not, is it solid wood? If it does, it's a fire door and needs the intumescent seals fitting/adjusting, not spending lots on a new door.The fact the hinges are fire-rated is a good clue it's a fire door, as is the door closer and arguably it being 44mm thick. At worst it needs the lock and peep hole changed along with the seals fixed to be compliant.

[Panamax]

Groomio said:

If there is a management company then they should be looking after this on behalf of the owners.

Yes. That doesn't mean the management company has to do the work or pay for the work but I would expect them to able to say, "You can use any contractor you like but Bill Bloggs is known to us and should be able to deal with it for you, at your own expense".

[LooneyTunes]

jules_s said:

AB said:

This is what I was hoping to establish but I don't know who to speak to in the first instance. Was mostly hoping there was a fire door expert knocking about PH.

Somebody just posted a link to the .gov advice which is quite clear - I'll re link it below

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-sa...

Paragraph 3 - not 100% conclusive but depends on the location specifics

Edit: the assessor seems to be making an assumption that because the door isn't 44mm thick it isn't a fire door...

Edited by jules_s on Saturday 2nd May 20:12

link said:

In short, it is expected that, in the majority of circumstances, a door that satisfied the standards for a fire-resisting flat entrance door at the time the block was built, or the door was manufactured, will continue to provide adequate protection for means of escape in common parts of the block, provided the door is undamaged and that gaps between the door and the frame are not too large (see 6.7). The absence of intumescent strips and smoke seals, and the absence of any form of certification for the door, does not imply that the door is unfit for purpose.

The issue is perhaps actually one around how the risk assessment for the block is written rather than does not being up to standard?

[jules_s]

hidetheelephants said:

AB said:

Yes it's confusing, I assumed a joiner could do the work required here but looks like the door is 'to thin' (their words) so presumably they want the whole thing replacing. Apparently they've been told they need to vacate the flats if the work isn't carried out.

It's clearly a 44mm door, whoever wrote that is a throbber. Does the door have a label with BS 476 or EN 1634 on it? If not, is it solid wood? If it does, it's a fire door and needs the intumescent seals fitting/adjusting, not spending lots on a new door.The fact the hinges are fire-rated is a good clue it's a fire door, as is the door closer and arguably it being 44mm thick. At worst it needs the lock and peep hole changed along with the seals fixed to be compliant.

Pretty much

Needs to be a solid core door though, not 'solid' as that would exempt many/most veneered doors

I seem to recall there was also a period when 25mm stops would negate intumescent seals as well, but tbh routing some strips in as well would make sense anyway

Agreed - 'its not a fire door because it's 0.2mm too thin' is reaching somewhat

[Groomio]

I see that her door number is 37 does that mean there are at least 37 residents ?

I would suggest that you explain to her and some of the other residents who are "sharper tools" that they need to find some accredited local companies to get some quotes from, you could try my builder https://www.mybuilder.com/

You may get a discount for a bulk order

Tell the management company that the work is in hand, it may take some time to obtain the doors and "thank them" for their help!

Is it by any chance a Mccarthy and Stone retirement flat ?