Appealing to the power of PH

[Simpo Two]

I'm having new patio doors fitted. The handles the installer will provide are 'OK' but I've had a hunt for nice handles found a design I prefer:



It comes from Glazebase: https://www.glazebase.com/products/patio-handle?va...

Glazebase don't answer e-mails and their 'sales hotline' is the number of Reading Trade Windows who tell me the design is discontinued. Maybe it is, maybe not, maybe stocks exist somewhere.

I've run out of corners to look in. Can any fresh PH eyes track this handle down...?

Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 13th August 11:36

[alscar]

A quick search gives no alternative suppliers but 2 other handles that are similar - Prosecure and the Yale Sparta.
The one you pictured looks better than these I would agree but if you cant get them ?

[Simpo Two]

Thanks. Sparta is the same design as Trojan (it's hard to be sure as different adverts have them at different angles, but Google AI told me they were) and is easy to find.

I can't find a Prosecure that looks similar - link?

[LooneyTunes]

I use AI a lot for sourcing these days. With good prompts it can be really effective.

Here's what Claude suggests.

Claude said:

It's the standard UK "inline locking P-handle" for uPVC sliding patio doors:
sculpted D-shaped pull on a slim vertical backplate, small inline lever inside
the loop, separate euro-cylinder deadlock underneath. It's a pattern-standard
part, so a few different brands make it to the same fixing dimensions.

Best match I can find is the greenteQ Alpha 92PZ (VBH's own brand). Described
as a "contemporary inline reversible P-handle", 220 x 32 x 10mm, 92mm PZ,
154mm screw centres, reversible so no handing to worry about. Comes in White,
Polished Chrome, Polished Gold (PVD) and Black - which is exactly the four
options Glazebase list. VBH supply a lot of the big fabricators, so odds are
it's the same part.

Before ordering anything, measure two things:

- Screw centres: distance between the two fixing screws. Should be ~154mm.
- PZ: lever spindle centre to keyhole centre. Should be 92mm.

If those both match, any of the below will bolt straight on.

Where to get them:

greenteQ Alpha 92PZ, 154mm - white/chrome/gold/black plus satin, anthracite,
brushed - GBP 16.52 to 39.28
https://jcphardware.co.uk/greenteq-inline-sliding-...

Pro-Linea 92PZ inline - chrome, gold, white
https://www.tradesuperstoreonline.co.uk/products/p...

Trojan 92PZ and Yale 92PZ - GBP 18.99 to 32.99
https://www.upvc-store.co.uk/collections/patio-han...

Fab & Fix Pembroke 'D' locking, 156mm centres, 92PZ - 8 finishes inc. Hardex
chrome and gold - GBP 35.40 inc VAT
https://store.northwesthardware.co.uk/fab-and-fix-...

WinLock 'P' shape, 153mm centres, 92PZ - white, chrome, gold - GBP 42.54 inc VAT
https://www.double-glazing-parts-spares.co.uk/Pati...

Trojan locking, 154mm - GBP 27.65
https://www.handlesandhinges.co.uk/patio-door-hand...

Sparta XL 92PZ, 154mm (trade)
https://jcphardware.co.uk/sparta-inline-sliding-pa...

Cheapest route is the greenteQ from JCP, or a generic Sparta/MK3 set off
eBay/Amazon for GBP 15-25. The Fab & Fix Pembroke is the upgrade pick - the
Hardex finishes carry a 10 year surface guarantee and hold up far better than
standard chrome plating if the door's anywhere exposed or coastal. Just check
your screw centres first, as it's 156mm rather than 154mm.

[alscar]

https://www.milasecure.com/uk/en/products/mila-doo...

[Simpo Two]

LooneyTunes said:

I use AI a lot for sourcing these days. With good prompts it can be really effective. Here's what Claude suggests.

Impressive, thanks! The Winlock one is worth considering.

Meantime I've ordered the Sparta/Trojan one from Amazon for assessment.

[Simpo Two]

alscar said:

https://www.milasecure.com/uk/en/products/mila-doo...

Thanks - as suspected it's got the bits in the wrong order so wouldn't fit the doors.

[netherfield]

Is it a good idea anyway, buying something out of production.

[LooneyTunes]

Simpo Two said:

Impressive, thanks! The Winlock one is worth considering.

Meantime I've ordered the Sparta/Trojan one from Amazon for assessment.

Hope it works out!

The latest Claude models are astonishing when it comes to image searches.

Aside from your handle, this week I've already had it analysing and designing:
1) foul drainage based on a rough initial layout of connectors laid on the ground - it checked geometry, building regs, and our site plans before putting together a detailed installation drawing for the lads on the tools;
2) evaluating electrical distribution, correctly identifying every component in a complex cabinet from just a photo;
3) lighting installation, taking geometry from plans and augmenting its suggestions with improvements once it was given photos showing suspended wooden beams across an old house;
4) lighting installation across an indoor riding arena (taking into account varying activities, heights, even supply phasing);
5) a full electrical strategy document for our sparkies to use as a starting point for the proper design: contains all of the site specific stuff where complex loads, correlations, and (erroneous) assumptions might be made of the lads on site might not have remembered subtle detail in a brief from their boss.

The paid models just keep getting better and better...

[Simpo Two]

netherfield said:

Is it a good idea anyway, buying something out of production.

Well, my car is out of production, and that's more complicated than a handle, so I think it would be fine

LooneyTunes said:

The paid models just keep getting better and better...

No doubt, but can you be 100% they're always right? How much of what they do is just scouring the net and combining the results?

[LooneyTunes]

You have to be careful with them, but these days the leading AI tools do a whole heap more than just scouring the web. A large part of making sure they don’t overreach is to build challenge into the prompts and ensure that you ask for references/validation.

That said, I do find it surprising that some companies are blocking AI tools from accessing their website: it’s akin to saying that they don’t want search engines to find them!

[mikeiow]

LooneyTunes said:

You have to be careful with them, but these days the leading AI tools do a whole heap more than just scouring the web. A large part of making sure they don t overreach is to build challenge into the prompts and ensure that you ask for references/validation.

That said, I do find it surprising that some companies are blocking AI tools from accessing their website: it s akin to saying that they don t want search engines to find them!

For a small number, it might be the recognition that all the massive Datacentre cooling requirements are causing big water issues.

One comment I read put it like this:
“The issue isn't that the water disappears forever, it's that data centres use massive amounts of clean freshwater for cooling and then release it as hot vapour into the atmosphere. Sure it eventually comes back as rain somewhere else, but that "somewhere else" might be hundreds of miles away. It's like if your neighbour kept borrowing your garden hose to fill their pool then just dumped all the water on the lawn”.

I firmly believe the battle for our children and grandchildren this century will be over water. AI doesn’t help that.

(don’t get me wrong: I still make too much personal use of AI, so am completely hypocritical, but that could be why some make a stand!)

[Simpo Two]

It's interesting. So we make electricity, by various means, and use it to convert water into water vapour. In short electricity is being turned into heat and it messes up rainfall patterns... neither of which are helpful in keeping the weather 'normal'...

When a process emits heat it's usually because it's not efficient (like a tungsten lightbulb), so what we need is chips that run at room temperature.

[QBee]

Is there no opportunity here to turn that heated water/steam into power or heating for the nearest towns?
I was reading the other day about a major city in Switzerland that has access to a hot spring, so all domestic heating in the city is free.
The only difference in the uK is of course that we would be charged for it.

[Simpo Two]

QBee said:

Is there no opportunity here to turn that heated water/steam into power or heating for the nearest towns?
I was reading the other day about a major city in Switzerland that has access to a hot spring, so all domestic heating in the city is free.
The only difference in the uK is of course that we would be charged for it.

It's a fair idea. I suspect the Swiss government is rather more competent than ours though.

[QBee]

Simpo Two said:

It's interesting. So we make electricity, by various means, and use it to convert water into water vapour. In short electricity is being turned into heat and it messes up rainfall patterns... neither of which are helpful in keeping the weather 'normal'...

When a process emits heat it's usually because it's not efficient (like a tungsten lightbulb), so what we need is chips that run at room temperature.

Amusingly, our coal powered power stations burned coal to heat water to boiling point, using the steam thus produced to drive turbines to generate electricity.
They then wasted the steam by releasing it back into the atmosphere via cooling towers. Chance missed there i think.
There were/are a number of these power stations along the Trent valley, with one at Wilford only about three miles from Nottingham City centre.
It could have heated the city (or part of it) with all that wasted hot water.
I still remember back in about 1966 going there for junior tennis training in the evenings in the depths of winter.
There was snow on the ground outside, 80 degrees F in the huge basement hall we used for tennis courts.