Terraced house garden wall ownership?
Discussion
My neighbours are building a rear extension up to the boundary and have removed the wall between the two properties with the intention of putting the extension wall there. They claim they own that wall and didn't inform me they were removing it. They have planning for the extension but it doesn't mention this wall of course, and the land registry docs don't mention boundary wall ownership. I have asked them to stop for now. I don't want to be a bad neighbour and rear extension are common, but I also want to be protective over my own property.
How should this be resolved? How do we find out wall ownership? Obviously if they build over the boundary wall they get the extra space that gives. It seems minor but these are small properties where space is of a premium.
Thanks
How should this be resolved? How do we find out wall ownership? Obviously if they build over the boundary wall they get the extra space that gives. It seems minor but these are small properties where space is of a premium.
Thanks
Matt.. said:
My neighbours are building a rear extension up to the boundary and have removed the wall between the two properties with the intention of putting the extension wall there. They claim they own that wall and didn't inform me they were removing it. They have planning for the extension but it doesn't mention this wall of course, and the land registry docs don't mention boundary wall ownership. I have asked them to stop for now. I don't want to be a bad neighbour and rear extension are common, but I also want to be protective over my own property.
How should this be resolved? How do we find out wall ownership? Obviously if they build over the boundary wall they get the extra space that gives. It seems minor but these are small properties where space is of a premium.
Thanks
They should have served you a notice under the Party Wall Act, which covers such situations, and is designed so that such matters are resolved before any works start.How should this be resolved? How do we find out wall ownership? Obviously if they build over the boundary wall they get the extra space that gives. It seems minor but these are small properties where space is of a premium.
Thanks
netherfield said:
E-bmw said:
That is very unusual, the ownership is usually marked with a row of inward facing letter "T"s on the owner's side.
Don't rely on that at all, the only one we have with that marking is from when the house was built in 1912, everything since shows nothing.The plan from the land registry is basically useless. It shows zero detail.
They have stopped work. I need to understand exactly where they believe the boundary is. The builders have stated my neighbours own the wall but I do not see any evidence of that. At best the wall is on the boundary and the supports to the block wall are on my side. I get on with my neighbours and am fine with the extension but I do need to protect my land on a very small terrace property.
They have stopped work. I need to understand exactly where they believe the boundary is. The builders have stated my neighbours own the wall but I do not see any evidence of that. At best the wall is on the boundary and the supports to the block wall are on my side. I get on with my neighbours and am fine with the extension but I do need to protect my land on a very small terrace property.
Matt.. said:
The plan from the land registry is basically useless. It shows zero detail.
They have stopped work. I need to understand exactly where they believe the boundary is. The builders have stated my neighbours own the wall but I do not see any evidence of that. At best the wall is on the boundary and the supports to the block wall are on my side. I get on with my neighbours and am fine with the extension but I do need to protect my land on a very small terrace property.
Does it have T marks though? Not sure how definitive this is but scroll down to the section on Boundary Walls - it looks as if the wall may be yours:They have stopped work. I need to understand exactly where they believe the boundary is. The builders have stated my neighbours own the wall but I do not see any evidence of that. At best the wall is on the boundary and the supports to the block wall are on my side. I get on with my neighbours and am fine with the extension but I do need to protect my land on a very small terrace property.
https://boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/...
https://www.boundary-disputes.co.uk/boundary-conve...
Edited by Mr Pointy on Tuesday 6th October 15:46
Mr Pointy said:
Does it have T marks though? Not sure how definitive this is but scroll down to the section on Boundary Walls - it looks as if the wall may be yours:
https://boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/...
https://www.boundary-disputes.co.uk/boundary-conve...
It shows nothing. It's simply a red line around the property with zero level of detail and no markings of any kind. It's basically useless.https://boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/...
https://www.boundary-disputes.co.uk/boundary-conve...
Edited by Mr Pointy on Tuesday 6th October 15:46
As above you need someone with knowledge of the party wall act
If it's a party fence wall they need to follow the law, entirely at their cost
If they push back you should find a local specialist to look at the situation for you.
And this situation is not you being a bad neighbour - it's entirely down to them.
If it's a party fence wall they need to follow the law, entirely at their cost
If they push back you should find a local specialist to look at the situation for you.
And this situation is not you being a bad neighbour - it's entirely down to them.
What are the odds of you wanting to build a similar extension? If they're reasonably high this could be an opportunity, a correctly built wall straddling the boundary would reduce your cost and maximises space for both of you.
If not, they need to keep everything on their side, which will mean stepping the wall in a minimum to allow for roof overhangs etc as another poster mentioned.
Do they have planning permission? If so I'm surprised you haven't been swamped with letters from part wall firms! That was our neighbours experience when we did a similar extension, fortunately he was more than happy to just get a local surveyor in to document everything properly. I seem to recall being asked for all the paperwork again by the solicitors when we sold several years later.
If not, they need to keep everything on their side, which will mean stepping the wall in a minimum to allow for roof overhangs etc as another poster mentioned.
Do they have planning permission? If so I'm surprised you haven't been swamped with letters from part wall firms! That was our neighbours experience when we did a similar extension, fortunately he was more than happy to just get a local surveyor in to document everything properly. I seem to recall being asked for all the paperwork again by the solicitors when we sold several years later.
Nicetobenice said:
As above you need someone with knowledge of the party wall act
If it's a party fence wall they need to follow the law, entirely at their cost
If they push back you should find a local specialist to look at the situation for you.
And this situation is not you being a bad neighbour - it's entirely down to them.
If it's a boundary wall the Party Wall Act may not apply. If it's a party fence wall they need to follow the law, entirely at their cost
If they push back you should find a local specialist to look at the situation for you.
And this situation is not you being a bad neighbour - it's entirely down to them.
grumbas said:
What are the odds of you wanting to build a similar extension? If they're reasonably high this could be an opportunity, a correctly built wall straddling the boundary would reduce your cost and maximises space for both of you.
If not, they need to keep everything on their side, which will mean stepping the wall in a minimum to allow for roof overhangs etc as another poster mentioned.
Do they have planning permission? If so I'm surprised you haven't been swamped with letters from part wall firms! That was our neighbours experience when we did a similar extension, fortunately he was more than happy to just get a local surveyor in to document everything properly. I seem to recall being asked for all the paperwork again by the solicitors when we sold several years later.
They have planning permission but obviously the plans on the application are not detailed enough for this. I don't have an issue with them building an extension.If not, they need to keep everything on their side, which will mean stepping the wall in a minimum to allow for roof overhangs etc as another poster mentioned.
Do they have planning permission? If so I'm surprised you haven't been swamped with letters from part wall firms! That was our neighbours experience when we did a similar extension, fortunately he was more than happy to just get a local surveyor in to document everything properly. I seem to recall being asked for all the paperwork again by the solicitors when we sold several years later.
There's a possibility I would build similar. I'm not against them building upto the centre of the boundary but right now it's not clear to me where they believe that is. They haven't discussed anything with me and have just started removing the wall and the builders say they believe it's my neighbours wall to do what they like with.
In some ways this this would have been easier if we both built at the same time but they missed that opportunity (as did I).
Mr Pointy said:
If it's a boundary wall the Party Wall Act may not apply.
It depends what type of boundary wall it is.If it marks the boundary and is entirely on their side then you are right it won't apply. They can do what they like.
If the marks the boundary and it's entirely on the OP's side then they've just knocked his wall down. Naughty.
If it straddles the boundary then the part wall act applies. They should have served a party wall notice. Naughty.
Nicetobenice said:
It depends what type of boundary wall it is.
If it marks the boundary and is entirely on their side then you are right it won't apply. They can do what they like.
If the marks the boundary and it's entirely on the OP's side then they've just knocked his wall down. Naughty.
If it straddles the boundary then the part wall act applies. They should have served a party wall notice. Naughty.
There's a good chance they have gone for option B.If it marks the boundary and is entirely on their side then you are right it won't apply. They can do what they like.
If the marks the boundary and it's entirely on the OP's side then they've just knocked his wall down. Naughty.
If it straddles the boundary then the part wall act applies. They should have served a party wall notice. Naughty.
Chipstick said:
How close will their foundations be to your building?
Right next to it. It's a small terrace house (~90sqm). They are building out their old kitchen extension to full width and deeper into the garden. It's a single story flat roof with green/live roof. That wall will be perhaps 1m from my kitchen wall and leave a narrow ~1m route to the window for my middle room.It's like this. They are extending into the blue.
Edited by Matt.. on Tuesday 6th October 17:35
Matt.. said:
Right next to it. It's a small terrace house (~90sqm). They are building out their old kitchen extension to full width and deeper into the garden. It's a single story flat roof with green/live roof. That wall will be perhaps 1m from my kitchen wall and leave a narrow ~1m route to the window for my middle room.
Presumably they are just building to the existing wall line so no change to your access?Will it be blocking light into your window?
Nicetobenice said:
Presumably they are just building to the existing wall line so no change to your access?
Will it be blocking light into your window?
Yes I ultimately just need the understanding from them of where they're actually building to.Will it be blocking light into your window?
Loss of light will happen for my middle room yes, but extensions like this are normal for terraced houses. Longer term I should probably build my own.
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