Gas Alarm Recommendation

[cliffords]

Let me start by saying I don't think we have a gas leak.

In the loft today of our bungalow and I can see a fair run of gas pipe from the meter to two boilers in the house. The pipe looks in good condition and is well supported.

I would like the peace of mind of a gas alarm in the loft . I have mains power up there or it can be a battery model.

So many on Amazon etc . Does anyone have words of wisdom please.

[rash_decision]

I’d also be very interested in this. My parents, well I ‘think’ my father, has been leaving the gas flowing on their hob unignited. I say unignited for now….

[Regbuser]

cliffords said:

Let me start by saying I don't think we have a gas leak.

In the loft today of our bungalow and I can see a fair run of gas pipe from the meter to two boilers in the house. The pipe looks in good condition and is well supported.

I would like the peace of mind of a gas alarm in the loft . I have mains power up there or it can be a battery model.

So many on Amazon etc . Does anyone have words of wisdom please.

For your application, having a battery powered local unit will bring no benefit, as you'll need to be at the loft to hear the alarm. Plus the batteries will run out at some point, leaving no coverage. Therefore, a system with one or two loft sensors, and a control panel in say, the hall would be recommended.
If the alarm goes off, do you also want the control panel to close a shut-off valve?

Something like this from Medem may suit > https://medem.co.uk/product/agds2em-v2-single-or-t...

[Regbuser]

rash_decision said:

I d also be very interested in this. My parents, well I think my father, has been leaving the gas flowing on their hob unignited. I say unignited for now .

For your application, just replace the cooker. All gas cookers sold today in the UK have gas supply interlocks, such that turning the hob control lever on doesn't in itself permit gas flow.

[E-bmw]

Regbuser said:

rash_decision said:

I d also be very interested in this. My parents, well I think my father, has been leaving the gas flowing on their hob unignited. I say unignited for now .

For your application, just replace the cooker. All gas cookers sold today in the UK have gas supply interlocks, such that turning the hob control lever on doesn't in itself permit gas flow.

^^^^ Wot 'e said.

Unless you stand in front of it with your finger on the control knob it won't let gas through.

It will also likely be much cheaper than an alarm.

Edited by E-bmw on Wednesday 14th October 07:57

[cliffords]

Regbuser said:

cliffords said:

Let me start by saying I don't think we have a gas leak.

In the loft today of our bungalow and I can see a fair run of gas pipe from the meter to two boilers in the house. The pipe looks in good condition and is well supported.

I would like the peace of mind of a gas alarm in the loft . I have mains power up there or it can be a battery model.

So many on Amazon etc . Does anyone have words of wisdom please.

For your application, having a battery powered local unit will bring no benefit, as you'll need to be at the loft to hear the alarm. Plus the batteries will run out at some point, leaving no coverage. Therefore, a system with one or two loft sensors, and a control panel in say, the hall would be recommended.
If the alarm goes off, do you also want the control panel to close a shut-off valve?

Something like this from Medem may suit > https://medem.co.uk/product/agds2em-v2-single-or-t...

Thank you. I don't think I can run to that cost. In terms of hearing the alarm we are a bungalow. I can hear my phone ring in the loft quite clearly when I had to get my wife to call it yesterday, when I could not find it after being in the loft .

[Regbuser]

cliffords said:

Thank you. I don't think I can run to that cost. In terms of hearing the alarm we are a bungalow. I can hear my phone ring in the loft quite clearly when I had to get my wife to call it yesterday, when I could not find it after being in the loft .

Okay then, a reputable CH4 portable detector such as this would suit >
https://www.test-meter.co.uk/crowcon-gasman-flamma...

[OutInTheShed]

cliffords said:

Let me start by saying I don't think we have a gas leak.

In the loft today of our bungalow and I can see a fair run of gas pipe from the meter to two boilers in the house. The pipe looks in good condition and is well supported.

I would like the peace of mind of a gas alarm in the loft . I have mains power up there or it can be a battery model.

So many on Amazon etc . Does anyone have words of wisdom please.

It's better to have (well founded) complete confidence in the pipe work than to place your trust in detector gadgets.
A gas alarm might make you feel better, but can you really be sure it would capture a leak at an point in the pipe work?

Your smart meter might be more effective?

[Regbuser]

^ the above is a good point. As part of the mandatory 12 month GasSafe inspection of your fired appliances, the gas technician should carry out a tightness test and condition inspection to the supply pipework.

Apols, I work in regulated industries, where everything is mandatory. As a householder you are not required to have an annual inspection. However, it's good practice, especially if you have concerns over your installation.

Edited by Regbuser on Wednesday 14th October 11:23

[cliffords]

OP here . I have no concerns over the safety of my gas appliances or the pipework. I did make that clear in my original post . I have my two boilers serviced annually and I have the flues and pipes in the loft inspected.

I drive a car and wear a seatbelt. I don't drive the car differently, I don't skip maintenance or inspections. I wear the seatbelt as an addition safety device.
I want a gas monitor on the same basis .

[Black_S3]

cliffords said:

OP here . I have no concerns over the safety of my gas appliances or the pipework. I did make that clear in my original post . I have my two boilers serviced annually and I have the flues and pipes in the loft inspected.

I drive a car and wear a seatbelt. I don't drive the car differently, I don't skip maintenance or inspections. I wear the seatbelt as an addition safety device.
I want a gas monitor on the same basis .

I think these are what youre asking for:

https://www.wisualarm.co.uk/products/interlinked-m...

https://www.bes.co.uk/natural-gas-leak-detector-al...

A few different types are available... Best just googling methane alarm.

[OutInTheShed]

cliffords said:

OP here . I have no concerns over the safety of my gas appliances or the pipework. I did make that clear in my original post . I have my two boilers serviced annually and I have the flues and pipes in the loft inspected.

I drive a car and wear a seatbelt. I don't drive the car differently, I don't skip maintenance or inspections. I wear the seatbelt as an addition safety device.
I want a gas monitor on the same basis .

Do you monitor the gas meter when no appliances are on?

I have a boat, which is a more enclosed space than a loft should.
The gas detector never went off with the old cooker, but the old cooker clearly leaked slightly, as we get through less gas.
I think a proper pressure loss test is way more sensitive than any detector?

What kind of event do you envisage creating a gas leak? It's worth thinking about this, for instance is the gas pipe liable to get corroded, impacted by stuff being thrown around, trodden on, eaten by rats etc. Can you make any of these things less likely by adding some protection, without making inspection difficult?

[Simpo Two]

OutInTheShed said:

I have a boat, which is a more enclosed space than a loft should.
The gas detector never went off with the old cooker, but the old cooker clearly leaked slightly, as we get through less gas.

I don't think you can be sure. The new cooker may be more efficient.

As for the OP, I'm trying to work out if he's concerned or unconcerned.

[Black_S3]

OutInTheShed said:

Do you monitor the gas meter when no appliances are on?

I have a boat, which is a more enclosed space than a loft should.
The gas detector never went off with the old cooker, but the old cooker clearly leaked slightly, as we get through less gas.
I think a proper pressure loss test is way more sensitive than any detector?

What kind of event do you envisage creating a gas leak? It's worth thinking about this, for instance is the gas pipe liable to get corroded, impacted by stuff being thrown around, trodden on, eaten by rats etc. Can you make any of these things less likely by adding some protection, without making inspection difficult?

Definitely a tightness test is way more effective and the only acceptable way. The big problem with these types of methane domestic alarms is unless the leak is huge or just by chance theyre sat right next to the leak they likely wont go off with the way methane disperses. IMO they're for homes where the occupant has lost their sense of smell etc and no more but if someone wants one for peice of mind along side propper annual saftey checks that's no bad thing.

You're also extremely unlikely to notice the first signs of a gas leak on a smart meter as if a meter is moving with all appliances off you have a fairly serious problem.

Re your boat - it's an entirely different scenario, different gas type with different properties, different regs but the permissible drop on your install would have been 0mbar where as in a domestic property on natural gas even with the new tightness test regs there is still a (rare/crazy) scenario where up to an 8mbar drop could still be seen as a pass. Nothing except a tightness test is accurate enough to confirm and LPG in confined spaces is about as dangerous as it gets. Propane/Butane (completely different to methane) will sit at low level and disperse more like water from an overflowing bath if that level is lower than the placement of an alarm it will never detect it.

It amazes me that an annual tightness test isn't mandatory for every gas installation but thats a completely different topic!

[Regbuser]

Black_S3 said:

It amazes me that an annual tightness test isn't mandatory for every gas installation but thats a completely different topic!

Agreed, given the number of fatal gas explosions there are in the UK every year; at least it would partly* uncover 'modified' or deteriorating gas installations.

• as ever, if parties wish to avoid scrutiny there's always a way.. bent MOTs being an example

[Tymb]

I’ve got a Mydome Canary Gas Alarm in the kitchen. It just plugs into a socket. It’s quite loud I think you’d probably hear it from the attic. I’ve only tested it but I’m pretty sure it would wake me up upstairs if it went off at night.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Accurate-Detector-Designe...

[Black_S3]

Regbuser said:

• as ever, if parties wish to avoid scrutiny there's always a way..

Completly. Even the mandatory gas safety check for landlords doesn't specify a tightness test as a requirement. So guess what, the guys banging out 10 certificates a day generally didn't do one in the past where as reputable guys would. Given the new tightness test guidlines that just became applicable this month the reputable lot are now questioning weather they should do a tightness test unless its mandatory requirement because the whole permissable drop situation has updated to for simplicity of explanation now having to find the source of the drop before being able to class it as permissible or not.... 1 step forward 10 steps back!

[Regbuser]

Yes, IGEM/UP/1B Edition 4 is a bit of a mess

[Black_S3]

Regbuser said:

Yes, IGEM/UP/1B Edition 4 is a bit of a mess

I think the clarification it's brought is a good thing but the implementation could have been alot better. Seeing some of the conversations where registered engineers are confused about many fundementals that havent actually changed is shocking and if it's a shock to some registered engineers what chance do the public have of understanding why potentially floors need to start being lifted/kitchen units pulled apart etc vs no action for same drop reported on the last check, it really has the potential to crash the decent companies with reviews accusing them of trying to create work. There definitely should have a PR campaign that ran before introducing the update alongside clarification in the update on when a test is mandatory rather than just reccomended - or even just clarification that if something is 'recommended' to treat it as mandatory!