Big central heating project
Discussion
Hello all,
Looking for some heating advice for my new place. It's a big old Victorian pile, 8 beds, about 5000 sq ft. It needs everything doing to it but is simply stunning (or at least it will be). The previous owners have been there about 20 years but were not really into decoration or general maintenance apart keeping the place spotlessly clean. We move in in about 7 weeks.
It's currently got an ancient floor standing gas powered boiler, massive great thing and 80's style radiators in the rooms. I want to fit a modern efficient unit and new radiators (well, in the downstairs I want to fit the classic cast iron jobs to get the right period feel).
It's got a gas Arga in the kitchen which, to my knowledge, isn't connected to the central heating (C/H). I'd like to fit a Clear View stove into the sitting room as I and a chum have a massive supply of logs that would only go to waste.
So, my questions are these:
1) Is it possible to have the Clearview powering the C/H as well as the new gas boiler? (ie when the Clearview is running use the heat from that, use the gas boiler when it's not)
2) What sort of boiler should I go for? (I suppose I need to work out the heat requirements, approx 350,000 BTU based on a 5000 sqr ft room - or is that total pish?)
3) Should I go for a hot water tank and a water pump for the showers? Or are electric showers better these days?
All points for me to consider, suggestions and advice welcome chaps!
Looking for some heating advice for my new place. It's a big old Victorian pile, 8 beds, about 5000 sq ft. It needs everything doing to it but is simply stunning (or at least it will be). The previous owners have been there about 20 years but were not really into decoration or general maintenance apart keeping the place spotlessly clean. We move in in about 7 weeks.
It's currently got an ancient floor standing gas powered boiler, massive great thing and 80's style radiators in the rooms. I want to fit a modern efficient unit and new radiators (well, in the downstairs I want to fit the classic cast iron jobs to get the right period feel).
It's got a gas Arga in the kitchen which, to my knowledge, isn't connected to the central heating (C/H). I'd like to fit a Clear View stove into the sitting room as I and a chum have a massive supply of logs that would only go to waste.
So, my questions are these:
1) Is it possible to have the Clearview powering the C/H as well as the new gas boiler? (ie when the Clearview is running use the heat from that, use the gas boiler when it's not)
2) What sort of boiler should I go for? (I suppose I need to work out the heat requirements, approx 350,000 BTU based on a 5000 sqr ft room - or is that total pish?)
3) Should I go for a hot water tank and a water pump for the showers? Or are electric showers better these days?
All points for me to consider, suggestions and advice welcome chaps!
we've just had a clear view stove installed, just a small one mind
we wanted to have it heating water aswell, but we are in a smoke control area, so we couldnt have it
the stove seems great, so id reconmend it
if your going to get one, and havent ordered, you might want to loook into it, as apparantly they run out of stock quickly, depending n your time scales of course
we also have solar heating, which works quite well, but we will never recover the costs from that
doug
we wanted to have it heating water aswell, but we are in a smoke control area, so we couldnt have it
the stove seems great, so id reconmend it
if your going to get one, and havent ordered, you might want to loook into it, as apparantly they run out of stock quickly, depending n your time scales of course
we also have solar heating, which works quite well, but we will never recover the costs from that
doug
No reason not to have two heating systems in parallel - I do it with an oil fired boiler and a hot water heat pump.
You gas boiler will need to be quite large, probably around the 50kW mark - be prepared for large bills.
Hot water is probably best done with a storage cylinder, although the exact layout would depend on how many bathrooms etc.
A high pressure cylinder is good, one advantage is you can use smaller pipes to hot water outlets - quicker supply and less losses
You gas boiler will need to be quite large, probably around the 50kW mark - be prepared for large bills.
Hot water is probably best done with a storage cylinder, although the exact layout would depend on how many bathrooms etc.
A high pressure cylinder is good, one advantage is you can use smaller pipes to hot water outlets - quicker supply and less losses
miniman said:
If you have the means to procure an eight bedroom Victorian pile, please don't cheap out and get nasty electric showers.
They're still rubbish then? I was wondering if there had been any developments and someone was making really good high pressure jobs. No problem, conventional showers it is then.What 'controls' the flow between the two heat sources (boiler and Clearview) to the tank? Does it need to be a special type of boiler?
With the tank, does it still need to be in a high point in the house? Or can it go mid-level with pumps for the showers/hot taps?
A few points:
1. First sort out your insulation. Pound for pound, money spent on making sure cavities are insulated, holes are sealed and draughts reduced is worth double that spent on boilers and clever systems. Not only that, but fixing insulation is a hideously messy job which you won't want to do once you've moved in.
2. If the place is big enough and you have a large free source of wood, consider an automated log burner in a boiler room. They're not cheap, but wood is by far the cheapest fuel source you can use.
3. You can combine multiple heat sources using a thermal store or heat bank. These allow boilers to run at maximum efficiency, store up the heat from wood burners so that it's available at the time you actually want it (rather than when the fire's lit) and give you mains pressure hot water without the complications of an unvented tank. If you have space, you can also combine solar hot water panels and/or ground source heat pumps - these may (depending on what fuels are available to you and your heat load) reduce your fuel bill by a useful amount.
1. First sort out your insulation. Pound for pound, money spent on making sure cavities are insulated, holes are sealed and draughts reduced is worth double that spent on boilers and clever systems. Not only that, but fixing insulation is a hideously messy job which you won't want to do once you've moved in.
2. If the place is big enough and you have a large free source of wood, consider an automated log burner in a boiler room. They're not cheap, but wood is by far the cheapest fuel source you can use.
3. You can combine multiple heat sources using a thermal store or heat bank. These allow boilers to run at maximum efficiency, store up the heat from wood burners so that it's available at the time you actually want it (rather than when the fire's lit) and give you mains pressure hot water without the complications of an unvented tank. If you have space, you can also combine solar hot water panels and/or ground source heat pumps - these may (depending on what fuels are available to you and your heat load) reduce your fuel bill by a useful amount.
cinque said:
Have you explored MegaFlo ?
We were going to go down this route, but you need "good" mains water pressure.
We wanted to hide it all away in the tank room on the 2nd floor, but the higher you go, the lower the pressure we found.
I'll have a look at that, thanks - sounds like it could be a problem as I'd like to put it either on the 3rd or 4th floor.We were going to go down this route, but you need "good" mains water pressure.
We wanted to hide it all away in the tank room on the 2nd floor, but the higher you go, the lower the pressure we found.
Tuna said:
A few points:
1. First sort out your insulation. Pound for pound, money spent on making sure cavities are insulated, holes are sealed and draughts reduced is worth double that spent on boilers and clever systems. Not only that, but fixing insulation is a hideously messy job which you won't want to do once you've moved in.
2. If the place is big enough and you have a large free source of wood, consider an automated log burner in a boiler room. They're not cheap, but wood is by far the cheapest fuel source you can use.
3. You can combine multiple heat sources using a thermal store or heat bank. These allow boilers to run at maximum efficiency, store up the heat from wood burners so that it's available at the time you actually want it (rather than when the fire's lit) and give you mains pressure hot water without the complications of an unvented tank. If you have space, you can also combine solar hot water panels and/or ground source heat pumps - these may (depending on what fuels are available to you and your heat load) reduce your fuel bill by a useful amount.
1) Good advice, we'll be looking into that.1. First sort out your insulation. Pound for pound, money spent on making sure cavities are insulated, holes are sealed and draughts reduced is worth double that spent on boilers and clever systems. Not only that, but fixing insulation is a hideously messy job which you won't want to do once you've moved in.
2. If the place is big enough and you have a large free source of wood, consider an automated log burner in a boiler room. They're not cheap, but wood is by far the cheapest fuel source you can use.
3. You can combine multiple heat sources using a thermal store or heat bank. These allow boilers to run at maximum efficiency, store up the heat from wood burners so that it's available at the time you actually want it (rather than when the fire's lit) and give you mains pressure hot water without the complications of an unvented tank. If you have space, you can also combine solar hot water panels and/or ground source heat pumps - these may (depending on what fuels are available to you and your heat load) reduce your fuel bill by a useful amount.
2) We have a good supply but not massive - I'm more thinking to top up the gas boiler rather than replace.
3) Interesting stuff, thanks. I'll have a search on the web for more information unless you can suggest a good source?
DPS have a vast amount of information online: http://www.heatweb.com/
Other thermal store manufacturers include Newark Cylinders, Akvaterm, Consolar and TiSun..
Some more info here: http://www.navitron.org.uk/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Sol... - it's from the point of view of a solar install, but should give you some idea and lists the major manufacturers.
As for wood - even if you buy it, so long as you buy in bulk it's cheaper than most other sources of energy - less than half the price of gas and a tenth the price of electricity. Of course, you can't just turn it on and off again (hence the thermal store), and it involves a bit of labour - but the cost of heating an eight bedroom Victorian pile can be astronomical, so the choice is yours.
Other thermal store manufacturers include Newark Cylinders, Akvaterm, Consolar and TiSun..
Some more info here: http://www.navitron.org.uk/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Sol... - it's from the point of view of a solar install, but should give you some idea and lists the major manufacturers.
As for wood - even if you buy it, so long as you buy in bulk it's cheaper than most other sources of energy - less than half the price of gas and a tenth the price of electricity. Of course, you can't just turn it on and off again (hence the thermal store), and it involves a bit of labour - but the cost of heating an eight bedroom Victorian pile can be astronomical, so the choice is yours.
cinque said:
Have you explored MegaFlo ?
We were going to go down this route, but you need "good" mains water pressure.
We wanted to hide it all away in the tank room on the 2nd floor, but the higher you go, the lower the pressure we found.
With all due respect this isn't actually correct.We were going to go down this route, but you need "good" mains water pressure.
We wanted to hide it all away in the tank room on the 2nd floor, but the higher you go, the lower the pressure we found.
The performance of an unvented cylinder is more about flow than pressure. No unvented cylinder will run at 'mains' pressure unless the pressure is low, otherwise they are all running at the pressure determined by the PRV fitted which can be as low as 1.8Bar on some units. When you bear in mind that I would imagine 'average' pressure where I am is around 3 Bar you can see that pressure is rarely a problem. (Although not unheard of, granted)
The problem that we have in so many properties here in the UK is that they were designed for vented cylinders with stored water so mains water coming in is usually down fairly narrow pipes.
If you consider that to fill a bath you are simultaneously opening TWO 22mm pipes, ALL the water filling that bath has to get into the property (no stored water, remember) down, in some cases ONE 15mm pipe, ofter rusty iron or scaled up lead.
The other point from your post is that height of cylinder makes a difference.
Since the ultimate point of exit from the system, the tap or shower, is in the same position it is the height of this point that will make the difference, the position of the cylinder is not important.
Stig said:
dugt said:
we've just had a clear view stove installed, just a small one mind
we wanted to have it heating water aswell, but we are in a smoke control area, so we couldnt have it
I thought Clearview had a smoke control compliant stove?we wanted to have it heating water aswell, but we are in a smoke control area, so we couldnt have it
Hi, bit late to this thread.
I have a Victorian farmhouse 4/5 bed with an oil fired range and a Clearview Wood Burner (big one) in the living room. Last year we fitted an additional Clearview Woood Burner (biggest one they do) with a back boiler in another room downstairs. The Backboiler has been connected in parallel with the Oil Fired Range so that either can supply hot water to the tank and central heating system. To do this correctly you need a Dunsley Baker Neutraliser, which allows multiple heat sources to be connected to a primary system. (Be Aware that these are often on 3-4 month delivery)
Some points, when using the Clearview with the back boiler:-
1) The back boiler affects the Clearview Clean Air system, so the glass dirties more easily, the other Clearview (non back boiler) remains relatively clear
2) The heat output into the room significantly is lower with the back boiler
3) It can burn a lot of wood (a wheel barrow full a day would not be uncommon for 12 hours burning)
4) IMO our's will only just do the radiators in our house, which has several bedrooms less than yours.
I would do the following:-
Calculate a heat loss for your house, there area a number of websites that will help with this, and I'll think you're find that a single Clearview with a back boiler is not up to the task. You could consider splitting the central heating system so that a number of rooms are run from the Clearview and the rest are run from your main boiler, then using a Dunsley Baker Neutraliser you could then integrate it so that the whole house could be heated from the main boiler.
Hope that helps
davidy
I have a Victorian farmhouse 4/5 bed with an oil fired range and a Clearview Wood Burner (big one) in the living room. Last year we fitted an additional Clearview Woood Burner (biggest one they do) with a back boiler in another room downstairs. The Backboiler has been connected in parallel with the Oil Fired Range so that either can supply hot water to the tank and central heating system. To do this correctly you need a Dunsley Baker Neutraliser, which allows multiple heat sources to be connected to a primary system. (Be Aware that these are often on 3-4 month delivery)
Some points, when using the Clearview with the back boiler:-
1) The back boiler affects the Clearview Clean Air system, so the glass dirties more easily, the other Clearview (non back boiler) remains relatively clear
2) The heat output into the room significantly is lower with the back boiler
3) It can burn a lot of wood (a wheel barrow full a day would not be uncommon for 12 hours burning)
4) IMO our's will only just do the radiators in our house, which has several bedrooms less than yours.
I would do the following:-
Calculate a heat loss for your house, there area a number of websites that will help with this, and I'll think you're find that a single Clearview with a back boiler is not up to the task. You could consider splitting the central heating system so that a number of rooms are run from the Clearview and the rest are run from your main boiler, then using a Dunsley Baker Neutraliser you could then integrate it so that the whole house could be heated from the main boiler.
Hope that helps
davidy
DavidY said:
Hi, bit late to this thread.
I have a Victorian farmhouse 4/5 bed with an oil fired range and a Clearview Wood Burner (big one) in the living room. Last year we fitted an additional Clearview Woood Burner (biggest one they do) with a back boiler in another room downstairs. The Backboiler has been connected in parallel with the Oil Fired Range so that either can supply hot water to the tank and central heating system. To do this correctly you need a Dunsley Baker Neutraliser, which allows multiple heat sources to be connected to a primary system. (Be Aware that these are often on 3-4 month delivery)
Some points, when using the Clearview with the back boiler:-
1) The back boiler affects the Clearview Clean Air system, so the glass dirties more easily, the other Clearview (non back boiler) remains relatively clear
2) The heat output into the room significantly is lower with the back boiler
3) It can burn a lot of wood (a wheel barrow full a day would not be uncommon for 12 hours burning)
4) IMO our's will only just do the radiators in our house, which has several bedrooms less than yours.
I would do the following:-
Calculate a heat loss for your house, there area a number of websites that will help with this, and I'll think you're find that a single Clearview with a back boiler is not up to the task. You could consider splitting the central heating system so that a number of rooms are run from the Clearview and the rest are run from your main boiler, then using a Dunsley Baker Neutraliser you could then integrate it so that the whole house could be heated from the main boiler.
Hope that helps
davidy
Thanks for your post, that's very interesting indeed!I have a Victorian farmhouse 4/5 bed with an oil fired range and a Clearview Wood Burner (big one) in the living room. Last year we fitted an additional Clearview Woood Burner (biggest one they do) with a back boiler in another room downstairs. The Backboiler has been connected in parallel with the Oil Fired Range so that either can supply hot water to the tank and central heating system. To do this correctly you need a Dunsley Baker Neutraliser, which allows multiple heat sources to be connected to a primary system. (Be Aware that these are often on 3-4 month delivery)
Some points, when using the Clearview with the back boiler:-
1) The back boiler affects the Clearview Clean Air system, so the glass dirties more easily, the other Clearview (non back boiler) remains relatively clear
2) The heat output into the room significantly is lower with the back boiler
3) It can burn a lot of wood (a wheel barrow full a day would not be uncommon for 12 hours burning)
4) IMO our's will only just do the radiators in our house, which has several bedrooms less than yours.
I would do the following:-
Calculate a heat loss for your house, there area a number of websites that will help with this, and I'll think you're find that a single Clearview with a back boiler is not up to the task. You could consider splitting the central heating system so that a number of rooms are run from the Clearview and the rest are run from your main boiler, then using a Dunsley Baker Neutraliser you could then integrate it so that the whole house could be heated from the main boiler.
Hope that helps
davidy
I'm more thinking of the boiler to top up the Clearview with the C/H and hot water as opposed to either doing it exclusively.
At the moment I'm thinking of a XCEL 2009 Heat Bank - this, as I understand it, will allow the systems to run in tandem and, using a heat exchanger, will give mains pressure hot water for decent showers.
Do you buy your wood in bulk?
Edited by Duke Thrust on Friday 16th October 10:56
DT
Yes I buy my wood in bulk, by the lorry load! though this autumn we are starting planting a short rotation coppice from which wood can be harvested in the future. I also have fair bit of land and can usually harvest a bit from wind blowns etc.
I too looked at heatbanks, as I also last year installed solar hot water heating, but my solar installer didn't like them and I have gone for just a large solar cylinder (6ft tall) with a solar coil at the bottom and a normal coil halfway up fed by the oil fired range/clearview backboiler.
At early 2008 oil prices my house would have cost approx 2.75k per year to heat/hot water, in the last 12 months I've spent £800 on oil and burnt approx £500 of wood, quite a saving.
davidy
Yes I buy my wood in bulk, by the lorry load! though this autumn we are starting planting a short rotation coppice from which wood can be harvested in the future. I also have fair bit of land and can usually harvest a bit from wind blowns etc.
I too looked at heatbanks, as I also last year installed solar hot water heating, but my solar installer didn't like them and I have gone for just a large solar cylinder (6ft tall) with a solar coil at the bottom and a normal coil halfway up fed by the oil fired range/clearview backboiler.
At early 2008 oil prices my house would have cost approx 2.75k per year to heat/hot water, in the last 12 months I've spent £800 on oil and burnt approx £500 of wood, quite a saving.
davidy
DavidY said:
DT
Yes I buy my wood in bulk, by the lorry load! though this autumn we are starting planting a short rotation coppice from which wood can be harvested in the future. I also have fair bit of land and can usually harvest a bit from wind blowns etc.
I too looked at heatbanks, as I also last year installed solar hot water heating, but my solar installer didn't like them and I have gone for just a large solar cylinder (6ft tall) with a solar coil at the bottom and a normal coil halfway up fed by the oil fired range/clearview backboiler.
At early 2008 oil prices my house would have cost approx 2.75k per year to heat/hot water, in the last 12 months I've spent £800 on oil and burnt approx £500 of wood, quite a saving.
davidy
Thanks, very interesting indeed!Yes I buy my wood in bulk, by the lorry load! though this autumn we are starting planting a short rotation coppice from which wood can be harvested in the future. I also have fair bit of land and can usually harvest a bit from wind blowns etc.
I too looked at heatbanks, as I also last year installed solar hot water heating, but my solar installer didn't like them and I have gone for just a large solar cylinder (6ft tall) with a solar coil at the bottom and a normal coil halfway up fed by the oil fired range/clearview backboiler.
At early 2008 oil prices my house would have cost approx 2.75k per year to heat/hot water, in the last 12 months I've spent £800 on oil and burnt approx £500 of wood, quite a saving.
davidy
Edited by Duke Thrust on Friday 16th October 16:08
If you're ripping everything out and starting again a thermal store makes sense as above, it will allow multiple energy source inputs to both hot water and space heating - then you can even heat your radiators with solar energy (in theory) on a very sunny winter's morning. Solar, wood, gas, electricity, all can be fed into a thermal store which heats your house and heats the water.
DPS are expensive tho'. A clever website selling pre-plumbed pre-wired 'solutions' and undoubted technical knowledge - but expensive.
The unvented/megaflo thing is a usual recommendation, but as ferg says, what comes out of your shower is only as good as what goes in from the street. If you have 8 beds, presumably more than one bathroom, and the house is victorian, I'll bet your 15mm (lead?) mains supply just won't cope when the butler's in the shower and the gardener starts running a bath. Google accumulators for that one. We have a thermal store, hot water from a heat exchanger with an accumulator bearing down on it as our mains flow is poor, and the hot water rocks. Not a straightforward path to take though, hardest part will be finding a plumber who understands it.
A problem I can see is your house is old, huge, solid uninsulated walls, high ceilings etc etc. Not easily warmed up. Good thermal mass when it is warm, so it'll retain warmth well, but a big mass to heat up.
A woodburning stove won't really make much of a dent in the space heating requirements of a house that size. It'll contribute, and it will reduce your gas bills, but heating that size of property by loading a Clearview stove with broken pallets might be a thankless task - tuna suggesting a hardcore 'industrial' logburner is a good move, but maybe not the romantic stove concept you'd been considering. Tuna's insulation advice is spot on too - if you could externally insulate your house it'd be a big expensive job but it would drastically reduce heating costs forever.
Hot water alone - from a stove no problem, but space heating will use a LOT of energy. Those cute 'ickle bags of logs outside the petrol station won't even touch the sides.
A thermal store big enough to be charged up just the once a day and then supply heat for your house for 24 hours may be Rather Large. A stove that provides even a tenth of your 350,000 btus will be a biggie.
Another vote for Navitron here - a mine of information, and not to put you off, but just to give a flavour of what you might need to heat a big house with wood, have a read of this thread 60kW Log Batch Boiler and 5,000L Thermal Store Project Report . Yes, that does say 5,000 litres. Think garden shed filled with warm water. It's big.
Just the amount of space required to physically store and dry out enough timber to heat 8 victorian bedrooms might lead you back to a gas boiler as a single labour-free reliable energy source. Not being negative here, just pointing out that's a big draughty solid-walled old house - your average 24 kw combi boiler could be running 24-7 in the winter and you'll still need two jumpers. Roll on global warming
DPS are expensive tho'. A clever website selling pre-plumbed pre-wired 'solutions' and undoubted technical knowledge - but expensive.
The unvented/megaflo thing is a usual recommendation, but as ferg says, what comes out of your shower is only as good as what goes in from the street. If you have 8 beds, presumably more than one bathroom, and the house is victorian, I'll bet your 15mm (lead?) mains supply just won't cope when the butler's in the shower and the gardener starts running a bath. Google accumulators for that one. We have a thermal store, hot water from a heat exchanger with an accumulator bearing down on it as our mains flow is poor, and the hot water rocks. Not a straightforward path to take though, hardest part will be finding a plumber who understands it.
A problem I can see is your house is old, huge, solid uninsulated walls, high ceilings etc etc. Not easily warmed up. Good thermal mass when it is warm, so it'll retain warmth well, but a big mass to heat up.
A woodburning stove won't really make much of a dent in the space heating requirements of a house that size. It'll contribute, and it will reduce your gas bills, but heating that size of property by loading a Clearview stove with broken pallets might be a thankless task - tuna suggesting a hardcore 'industrial' logburner is a good move, but maybe not the romantic stove concept you'd been considering. Tuna's insulation advice is spot on too - if you could externally insulate your house it'd be a big expensive job but it would drastically reduce heating costs forever.
Hot water alone - from a stove no problem, but space heating will use a LOT of energy. Those cute 'ickle bags of logs outside the petrol station won't even touch the sides.
A thermal store big enough to be charged up just the once a day and then supply heat for your house for 24 hours may be Rather Large. A stove that provides even a tenth of your 350,000 btus will be a biggie.
Another vote for Navitron here - a mine of information, and not to put you off, but just to give a flavour of what you might need to heat a big house with wood, have a read of this thread 60kW Log Batch Boiler and 5,000L Thermal Store Project Report . Yes, that does say 5,000 litres. Think garden shed filled with warm water. It's big.
Just the amount of space required to physically store and dry out enough timber to heat 8 victorian bedrooms might lead you back to a gas boiler as a single labour-free reliable energy source. Not being negative here, just pointing out that's a big draughty solid-walled old house - your average 24 kw combi boiler could be running 24-7 in the winter and you'll still need two jumpers. Roll on global warming
andy43 said:
If you're ripping everything out and starting again a thermal store makes sense as above, it will allow multiple energy source inputs to both hot water and space heating - then you can even heat your radiators with solar energy (in theory) on a very sunny winter's morning. Solar, wood, gas, electricity, all can be fed into a thermal store which heats your house and heats the water.
DPS are expensive tho'. A clever website selling pre-plumbed pre-wired 'solutions' and undoubted technical knowledge - but expensive.
The unvented/megaflo thing is a usual recommendation, but as ferg says, what comes out of your shower is only as good as what goes in from the street. If you have 8 beds, presumably more than one bathroom, and the house is victorian, I'll bet your 15mm (lead?) mains supply just won't cope when the butler's in the shower and the gardener starts running a bath. Google accumulators for that one. We have a thermal store, hot water from a heat exchanger with an accumulator bearing down on it as our mains flow is poor, and the hot water rocks. Not a straightforward path to take though, hardest part will be finding a plumber who understands it.
A problem I can see is your house is old, huge, solid uninsulated walls, high ceilings etc etc. Not easily warmed up. Good thermal mass when it is warm, so it'll retain warmth well, but a big mass to heat up.
A woodburning stove won't really make much of a dent in the space heating requirements of a house that size. It'll contribute, and it will reduce your gas bills, but heating that size of property by loading a Clearview stove with broken pallets might be a thankless task - tuna suggesting a hardcore 'industrial' logburner is a good move, but maybe not the romantic stove concept you'd been considering. Tuna's insulation advice is spot on too - if you could externally insulate your house it'd be a big expensive job but it would drastically reduce heating costs forever.
Hot water alone - from a stove no problem, but space heating will use a LOT of energy. Those cute 'ickle bags of logs outside the petrol station won't even touch the sides.
A thermal store big enough to be charged up just the once a day and then supply heat for your house for 24 hours may be Rather Large. A stove that provides even a tenth of your 350,000 btus will be a biggie.
Another vote for Navitron here - a mine of information, and not to put you off, but just to give a flavour of what you might need to heat a big house with wood, have a read of this thread 60kW Log Batch Boiler and 5,000L Thermal Store Project Report . Yes, that does say 5,000 litres. Think garden shed filled with warm water. It's big.
Just the amount of space required to physically store and dry out enough timber to heat 8 victorian bedrooms might lead you back to a gas boiler as a single labour-free reliable energy source. Not being negative here, just pointing out that's a big draughty solid-walled old house - your average 24 kw combi boiler could be running 24-7 in the winter and you'll still need two jumpers. Roll on global warming
Thanks chap, a lot to think about there. I've got to get more information on the place I think, would be very interested to know what their current heating bill is.DPS are expensive tho'. A clever website selling pre-plumbed pre-wired 'solutions' and undoubted technical knowledge - but expensive.
The unvented/megaflo thing is a usual recommendation, but as ferg says, what comes out of your shower is only as good as what goes in from the street. If you have 8 beds, presumably more than one bathroom, and the house is victorian, I'll bet your 15mm (lead?) mains supply just won't cope when the butler's in the shower and the gardener starts running a bath. Google accumulators for that one. We have a thermal store, hot water from a heat exchanger with an accumulator bearing down on it as our mains flow is poor, and the hot water rocks. Not a straightforward path to take though, hardest part will be finding a plumber who understands it.
A problem I can see is your house is old, huge, solid uninsulated walls, high ceilings etc etc. Not easily warmed up. Good thermal mass when it is warm, so it'll retain warmth well, but a big mass to heat up.
A woodburning stove won't really make much of a dent in the space heating requirements of a house that size. It'll contribute, and it will reduce your gas bills, but heating that size of property by loading a Clearview stove with broken pallets might be a thankless task - tuna suggesting a hardcore 'industrial' logburner is a good move, but maybe not the romantic stove concept you'd been considering. Tuna's insulation advice is spot on too - if you could externally insulate your house it'd be a big expensive job but it would drastically reduce heating costs forever.
Hot water alone - from a stove no problem, but space heating will use a LOT of energy. Those cute 'ickle bags of logs outside the petrol station won't even touch the sides.
A thermal store big enough to be charged up just the once a day and then supply heat for your house for 24 hours may be Rather Large. A stove that provides even a tenth of your 350,000 btus will be a biggie.
Another vote for Navitron here - a mine of information, and not to put you off, but just to give a flavour of what you might need to heat a big house with wood, have a read of this thread 60kW Log Batch Boiler and 5,000L Thermal Store Project Report . Yes, that does say 5,000 litres. Think garden shed filled with warm water. It's big.
Just the amount of space required to physically store and dry out enough timber to heat 8 victorian bedrooms might lead you back to a gas boiler as a single labour-free reliable energy source. Not being negative here, just pointing out that's a big draughty solid-walled old house - your average 24 kw combi boiler could be running 24-7 in the winter and you'll still need two jumpers. Roll on global warming
Most of the windows need work, all orginal sash and in very poor state of repair - this, from the sounds of it would be the first thing to look at to save energy.
As a very general guide to energy usage, be the first person ever in your estate agents to ask to see a HIP. The agents'll be amazed.
Part of the HIP is the energy performance certificate - this'll show very very roughly what you can expect in terms of heating costs, assuming the assessment was done half-right. It won't be dead-on accurate, and isn't a substitute for asking the owners to see last winter's gas bills, but will give you some idea.
If the current owners claim to have 'lost' the gas bill, start to worry
Part of the HIP is the energy performance certificate - this'll show very very roughly what you can expect in terms of heating costs, assuming the assessment was done half-right. It won't be dead-on accurate, and isn't a substitute for asking the owners to see last winter's gas bills, but will give you some idea.
If the current owners claim to have 'lost' the gas bill, start to worry
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