right to repairs as a tennant
Discussion
Hi, not sure if this is the right section but i'm hoping there are either people on here who are landlords/letting agents or someone who has gone through this and may know where i stand..
I rent a property that is owned by a private individual and let / managed / maintained via a agent.
The problem is that during the annual gas inspection in May their contractor found that the gas fire had issues and had to remove it from use. i believe the issue was with fumes exhaust, it wasn't drawing them back or something.
They 'capped off' ? the gas supply to the fire and stuck a label on it saying do not use (blah blah)
They also took measurements of the existing fire.
I heard nothing for a while so i spoke to the agents who told me they didnt intend to repair or replace the fire. I had a whole discussion with them and they agreed to send another contractor who would provide a report on the heating of the property. long story short all they did was agree with me about the broken patio door which has since been replaced (very long story)
didnt hear any more so sent the agents an email which they ignored so i followed it up with a further one which they eventually replied saying they would not be doing anything to the fire as the central heating was adequate.
Few questions.
1. this is an inventory item, it also made part of the original description of the property, can they just say tough it's broken dont use it? - i know it's not exactly the same, but if the front door jams do they say "well you have a back door" or if the taps stop working "use the bath"....
2. can i demand a repair / replacement of a fixture of the property?
3. if they go as far as removing it from the inventory, can i expect them to remove an (ugly) failed item?
i've had trouble with this agent for two years now, the property isnt that cheap but i like the area and the house and it's fairly low hassle plus i have a fair amount of time / money invested in it.
When we moved in we agreed they would remove a stair lift and replace a disabled bathroom with a regular one. there were a few other issues, there was wallpaper everywhere incl ceilings which was peeling - i've repaired/replaced/removed where needed. I've decorated the whole property and replaced the (horrible) thread bare carpet with laminate downstairs.
The gate was only on one hinge when we first viewed, they repaired this 6 months after we moved in, it fell off totally a few months after
they refused to repair the fence which was missing a panel - i've repaired at my own cost.
they repaired a seriously leaking tap which also took six months
we complained about a failed patio door unit which was sinking causing very large gaps on both sides, this was a security issue and bad drafts - this took two years and a break in before it was replaced.
i'm not against walking away from this property, there are others but i'm fairly comfortable here so i'm going to have one last stab at this.. any suggestions on the above questions?
thanks in advance
I rent a property that is owned by a private individual and let / managed / maintained via a agent.
The problem is that during the annual gas inspection in May their contractor found that the gas fire had issues and had to remove it from use. i believe the issue was with fumes exhaust, it wasn't drawing them back or something.
They 'capped off' ? the gas supply to the fire and stuck a label on it saying do not use (blah blah)
They also took measurements of the existing fire.
I heard nothing for a while so i spoke to the agents who told me they didnt intend to repair or replace the fire. I had a whole discussion with them and they agreed to send another contractor who would provide a report on the heating of the property. long story short all they did was agree with me about the broken patio door which has since been replaced (very long story)
didnt hear any more so sent the agents an email which they ignored so i followed it up with a further one which they eventually replied saying they would not be doing anything to the fire as the central heating was adequate.
Few questions.
1. this is an inventory item, it also made part of the original description of the property, can they just say tough it's broken dont use it? - i know it's not exactly the same, but if the front door jams do they say "well you have a back door" or if the taps stop working "use the bath"....
2. can i demand a repair / replacement of a fixture of the property?
3. if they go as far as removing it from the inventory, can i expect them to remove an (ugly) failed item?
i've had trouble with this agent for two years now, the property isnt that cheap but i like the area and the house and it's fairly low hassle plus i have a fair amount of time / money invested in it.
When we moved in we agreed they would remove a stair lift and replace a disabled bathroom with a regular one. there were a few other issues, there was wallpaper everywhere incl ceilings which was peeling - i've repaired/replaced/removed where needed. I've decorated the whole property and replaced the (horrible) thread bare carpet with laminate downstairs.
The gate was only on one hinge when we first viewed, they repaired this 6 months after we moved in, it fell off totally a few months after
they refused to repair the fence which was missing a panel - i've repaired at my own cost.
they repaired a seriously leaking tap which also took six months
we complained about a failed patio door unit which was sinking causing very large gaps on both sides, this was a security issue and bad drafts - this took two years and a break in before it was replaced.
i'm not against walking away from this property, there are others but i'm fairly comfortable here so i'm going to have one last stab at this.. any suggestions on the above questions?
thanks in advance
I have some properties which I have tenanted and like to think everything which becomes an issue with my tenants is sorted as soon as I have an agreed price.
Although I don't know the rental agreement you have in place, it seems to me you have done more than could be expected from a tenant by way of decorating etc.
If an item on the inventory was to fail, personally, I would feel duty bound to fix/replace it. If the boot was on the other foot, I'm sure the landlord would want an item replaced if you were responsible for breaking it.
You agreed to rent the house with a working fire. If that is no longer the case, theoretically you could ask for a rent reduction.
I am always amazed when I hear stories like this as the cost to the landlord is just not worth the bad feeling which can develop. As a landlord I would be worried about the bad feeling deteriorating into something more serious, like non-payment of rent, or worse, the place getting trashed.
First, I would ensure the landlord has actually been informed about the fire. There are some dodgy rental agents out there with their own agendas. Try to contact him direct - you may get a different story.
Good luck.
Although I don't know the rental agreement you have in place, it seems to me you have done more than could be expected from a tenant by way of decorating etc.
If an item on the inventory was to fail, personally, I would feel duty bound to fix/replace it. If the boot was on the other foot, I'm sure the landlord would want an item replaced if you were responsible for breaking it.
You agreed to rent the house with a working fire. If that is no longer the case, theoretically you could ask for a rent reduction.
I am always amazed when I hear stories like this as the cost to the landlord is just not worth the bad feeling which can develop. As a landlord I would be worried about the bad feeling deteriorating into something more serious, like non-payment of rent, or worse, the place getting trashed.
First, I would ensure the landlord has actually been informed about the fire. There are some dodgy rental agents out there with their own agendas. Try to contact him direct - you may get a different story.
Good luck.
AlexanderV8 said:
I have some properties which I have tenanted and like to think everything which becomes an issue with my tenants is sorted as soon as I have an agreed price.
Although I don't know the rental agreement you have in place, it seems to me you have done more than could be expected from a tenant by way of decorating etc.
If an item on the inventory was to fail, personally, I would feel duty bound to fix/replace it. If the boot was on the other foot, I'm sure the landlord would want an item replaced if you were responsible for breaking it.
You agreed to rent the house with a working fire. If that is no longer the case, theoretically you could ask for a rent reduction.
I am always amazed when I hear stories like this as the cost to the landlord is just not worth the bad feeling which can develop. As a landlord I would be worried about the bad feeling deteriorating into something more serious, like non-payment of rent, or worse, the place getting trashed.
First, I would ensure the landlord has actually been informed about the fire. There are some dodgy rental agents out there with their own agendas. Try to contact him direct - you may get a different story.
Good luck.
Also as a landlord I very much agree with your views. Since the gas fire is a fixture, the landlord is duty bound to repair the same. There will be certain times when a tenant/OP will not want to start up the full central heating, just give a quick boost to the heating by just turning on the gas fire. This the OP needs to point out to either the letting agent or landlord, and to say that unless the gas fire is either repaired or replaced within 14 days, the OP will employ his own contractors to carry out the works, and deduct the costs of the same from his next rental payment.Although I don't know the rental agreement you have in place, it seems to me you have done more than could be expected from a tenant by way of decorating etc.
If an item on the inventory was to fail, personally, I would feel duty bound to fix/replace it. If the boot was on the other foot, I'm sure the landlord would want an item replaced if you were responsible for breaking it.
You agreed to rent the house with a working fire. If that is no longer the case, theoretically you could ask for a rent reduction.
I am always amazed when I hear stories like this as the cost to the landlord is just not worth the bad feeling which can develop. As a landlord I would be worried about the bad feeling deteriorating into something more serious, like non-payment of rent, or worse, the place getting trashed.
First, I would ensure the landlord has actually been informed about the fire. There are some dodgy rental agents out there with their own agendas. Try to contact him direct - you may get a different story.
Good luck.
Wings said:
Also as a landlord I very much agree with your views. Since the gas fire is a fixture, the landlord is duty bound to repair the same. There will be certain times when a tenant/OP will not want to start up the full central heating, just give a quick boost to the heating by just turning on the gas fire. This the OP needs to point out to either the letting agent or landlord, and to say that unless the gas fire is either repaired or replaced within 14 days, the OP will employ his own contractors to carry out the works, and deduct the costs of the same from his next rental payment.
As a tenant, I always thought that withholding rent was a bog nono, but can you do that legally then if you give the landlord/agent sufficient notice?As an aside, I always prefer to rent direct from the landlord - seems to go much more smoothly. Always found agencies to be a bit awkward to deal with...
Firstly, the OP’s Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement may contain a clause similar to the following;
The Landlord hereby agrees as follows:
(a) To keep the exterior of the premises in good repair.
(b) To keep in good working order the provisions of electricity, gas (if appropriate)
water and sanitation.
Therefore not to the repair or replace the gas fire is a breach of the AST, and even if the above clause does not appear in the AST, then since the gas fire is a fixture, the landlord, letting agents have let the property with the fixture/gas fire as a working appliance, therefore they are legally obliged to either repair or replace the gas fire.
Failure by the landlord or letting agents to either repair or replace the gas fire within a reasonable time, 14 days, allows the tenant to employ his own contractors to carry out those works, and to deduct all reasonable costs for doing the same from his next rental payments.
The Landlord hereby agrees as follows:
(a) To keep the exterior of the premises in good repair.
(b) To keep in good working order the provisions of electricity, gas (if appropriate)
water and sanitation.
Therefore not to the repair or replace the gas fire is a breach of the AST, and even if the above clause does not appear in the AST, then since the gas fire is a fixture, the landlord, letting agents have let the property with the fixture/gas fire as a working appliance, therefore they are legally obliged to either repair or replace the gas fire.
Failure by the landlord or letting agents to either repair or replace the gas fire within a reasonable time, 14 days, allows the tenant to employ his own contractors to carry out those works, and to deduct all reasonable costs for doing the same from his next rental payments.
Wings said:
AlexanderV8 said:
I have some properties which I have tenanted and like to think everything which becomes an issue with my tenants is sorted as soon as I have an agreed price.
Although I don't know the rental agreement you have in place, it seems to me you have done more than could be expected from a tenant by way of decorating etc.
If an item on the inventory was to fail, personally, I would feel duty bound to fix/replace it. If the boot was on the other foot, I'm sure the landlord would want an item replaced if you were responsible for breaking it.
You agreed to rent the house with a working fire. If that is no longer the case, theoretically you could ask for a rent reduction.
I am always amazed when I hear stories like this as the cost to the landlord is just not worth the bad feeling which can develop. As a landlord I would be worried about the bad feeling deteriorating into something more serious, like non-payment of rent, or worse, the place getting trashed.
First, I would ensure the landlord has actually been informed about the fire. There are some dodgy rental agents out there with their own agendas. Try to contact him direct - you may get a different story.
Good luck.
Also as a landlord I very much agree with your views. Since the gas fire is a fixture, the landlord is duty bound to repair the same. There will be certain times when a tenant/OP will not want to start up the full central heating, just give a quick boost to the heating by just turning on the gas fire. This the OP needs to point out to either the letting agent or landlord, and to say that unless the gas fire is either repaired or replaced within 14 days, the OP will employ his own contractors to carry out the works, and deduct the costs of the same from his next rental payment.Although I don't know the rental agreement you have in place, it seems to me you have done more than could be expected from a tenant by way of decorating etc.
If an item on the inventory was to fail, personally, I would feel duty bound to fix/replace it. If the boot was on the other foot, I'm sure the landlord would want an item replaced if you were responsible for breaking it.
You agreed to rent the house with a working fire. If that is no longer the case, theoretically you could ask for a rent reduction.
I am always amazed when I hear stories like this as the cost to the landlord is just not worth the bad feeling which can develop. As a landlord I would be worried about the bad feeling deteriorating into something more serious, like non-payment of rent, or worse, the place getting trashed.
First, I would ensure the landlord has actually been informed about the fire. There are some dodgy rental agents out there with their own agendas. Try to contact him direct - you may get a different story.
Good luck.
gas company came about 5 weeks ago, a week later i chased it and it they were waiting for the quote.. i informed them i was going on holiday for three weeks.
when i got back i was told the quote was now with the property owners - this was last thursday.
had a conversation with them on friday where they asked my intentions, i told them if it was not fixed, or if the rent was put up in reflection to maintanence then we would leave, apart from that we're happy to stay for atleast a couple of years.
now they want me to sign a 12 month contract and it will be replaced.
i can kind of see their point, and for me it fixes the rent for 12 months, but... it annoys me that they are holding maintanence to ransom in this way.
have an appointment to view a house just down the road
when i got back i was told the quote was now with the property owners - this was last thursday.
had a conversation with them on friday where they asked my intentions, i told them if it was not fixed, or if the rent was put up in reflection to maintanence then we would leave, apart from that we're happy to stay for atleast a couple of years.
now they want me to sign a 12 month contract and it will be replaced.
i can kind of see their point, and for me it fixes the rent for 12 months, but... it annoys me that they are holding maintanence to ransom in this way.
have an appointment to view a house just down the road
chr15b said:
gas company came about 5 weeks ago, a week later i chased it and it they were waiting for the quote.. i informed them i was going on holiday for three weeks.
when i got back i was told the quote was now with the property owners - this was last thursday.
had a conversation with them on friday where they asked my intentions, i told them if it was not fixed, or if the rent was put up in reflection to maintanence then we would leave, apart from that we're happy to stay for atleast a couple of years.
now they want me to sign a 12 month contract and it will be replaced.
i can kind of see their point, and for me it fixes the rent for 12 months, but... it annoys me that they are holding maintanence to ransom in this way.
have an appointment to view a house just down the road
I repeat, you inform the agents/landlord that unless the gas fire is either repaired or replace, then you will do the same and deduct the costs from your next rental payment/s, and that once you have the fire back in operation again you will, and only then consider extending your tenancy.when i got back i was told the quote was now with the property owners - this was last thursday.
had a conversation with them on friday where they asked my intentions, i told them if it was not fixed, or if the rent was put up in reflection to maintanence then we would leave, apart from that we're happy to stay for atleast a couple of years.
now they want me to sign a 12 month contract and it will be replaced.
i can kind of see their point, and for me it fixes the rent for 12 months, but... it annoys me that they are holding maintanence to ransom in this way.
have an appointment to view a house just down the road
i think i may have them on the back foot. feeling a little 'held to ransom' i thought i'd play for time but also cover myself.
Last week i sent an email saying i was feeling held to ransom over the contract renewal and that as historically they have been slow for maintenance i'd like their proposal in writing stating that the fire would be repaired on contract renewal and what timeframe they would work to.
over the weekend had an issue with the central heating (see below) so called them today.
guy i've been dealing with answered the phone, conversation went like this:
me: hi it's xx from yy
him: hello, i got your email, let me reassure you that the maintenance is going to happen regardless, would you be interested in a 6 month renewal rather than 12.
me: thats not exactly what i'm calling you about.....
anyway cut a longs story short..
this all started ages ago, last year the property was cold during the really cold parts we suspected because the rear patio door had failed, it had large gaps on both sides. i'd commented on it a few times, but now i'd had a go on the security side of things (again in writing) - fast forward to april / may sort of time when the gas fire was put out of service and they did their "energy inspection" balls they just agreed that the rear door needed replacing. they also stated the GSH was fully capable of heating the property (how in early summer!!) then we had a break in in July (scared the crap out of them
they thought the thieves had come in through the patio door - luckily they hadnt!) so the dor was replaced (18 months after first complaint)
i'd stated all along that the GSH couldnt heat the property and the gas fire was needed, they said now the draft issues of the rear door were gone there was no issue - ie didnt need to repair the fire.
fast forward to this weekend - ok i know the temps we've seen arent the 'norm' but still, does this sound right?
CH comes on at 6am to 8.30 and we normally overide at the weekends, heating was switched on to permanent at 9.30 - at 1pm (been on full until then) the temp in the lounge was 15 degrees. it got up to 19 degrees by 8pm.
i fully intend to use this as more ammo for the fire situation, but is there anything i can do about the central heating, or do i have to live with it / move.
the conversation above went on to him saying this was normal due to the property and the outside temps.
i've got a viewing on a property 10 doors down tomorrow
Last week i sent an email saying i was feeling held to ransom over the contract renewal and that as historically they have been slow for maintenance i'd like their proposal in writing stating that the fire would be repaired on contract renewal and what timeframe they would work to.
over the weekend had an issue with the central heating (see below) so called them today.
guy i've been dealing with answered the phone, conversation went like this:
me: hi it's xx from yy
him: hello, i got your email, let me reassure you that the maintenance is going to happen regardless, would you be interested in a 6 month renewal rather than 12.
me: thats not exactly what i'm calling you about.....
anyway cut a longs story short..
this all started ages ago, last year the property was cold during the really cold parts we suspected because the rear patio door had failed, it had large gaps on both sides. i'd commented on it a few times, but now i'd had a go on the security side of things (again in writing) - fast forward to april / may sort of time when the gas fire was put out of service and they did their "energy inspection" balls they just agreed that the rear door needed replacing. they also stated the GSH was fully capable of heating the property (how in early summer!!) then we had a break in in July (scared the crap out of them
they thought the thieves had come in through the patio door - luckily they hadnt!) so the dor was replaced (18 months after first complaint)i'd stated all along that the GSH couldnt heat the property and the gas fire was needed, they said now the draft issues of the rear door were gone there was no issue - ie didnt need to repair the fire.
fast forward to this weekend - ok i know the temps we've seen arent the 'norm' but still, does this sound right?
CH comes on at 6am to 8.30 and we normally overide at the weekends, heating was switched on to permanent at 9.30 - at 1pm (been on full until then) the temp in the lounge was 15 degrees. it got up to 19 degrees by 8pm.
i fully intend to use this as more ammo for the fire situation, but is there anything i can do about the central heating, or do i have to live with it / move.
the conversation above went on to him saying this was normal due to the property and the outside temps.
i've got a viewing on a property 10 doors down tomorrow
Dogwatch said:
The central heating effort is a disgrace (whatever the reason, and the current cold snap isn't a valid one). If you finds a better 'ole then go for it! 
+1 agree.Christmas and periods of a cold snap in weather conditions is a landlord’s absolute nightmare, for sod’s law the central heating system will go wrong, and why for emergencies I keep in storage 2 portable gas mobile heaters. In the OP’s case either the landlord or the agent is being a tight xxs, and they really need to have an empty property for 2-3 months to realise their short sightedness.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, a gas fire comes into it’s own, not just in the height of winter, but also during the rest of the year when the house does not warrant having the full central heating system running, but just the fixed gas fire heating the one room.
Wings said:
Dogwatch said:
The central heating effort is a disgrace (whatever the reason, and the current cold snap isn't a valid one). If you finds a better 'ole then go for it!
+1 agree.Christmas and periods of a cold snap in weather conditions is a landlord’s absolute nightmare, for sod’s law the central heating system will go wrong, and why for emergencies I keep in storage 2 portable gas mobile heaters. In the OP’s case either the landlord or the agent is being a tight xxs, and they really need to have an empty property for 2-3 months to realise their short sightedness.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, a gas fire comes into it’s own, not just in the height of winter, but also during the rest of the year when the house does not warrant having the full central heating system running, but just the fixed gas fire heating the one room.
the place down the road is £50 more and it's an extra bedroom and conservetory, but it's being tied into a contract at the moment that puts me off moving
chr15b said:
Wings said:
Dogwatch said:
The central heating effort is a disgrace (whatever the reason, and the current cold snap isn't a valid one). If you finds a better 'ole then go for it!
+1 agree.Christmas and periods of a cold snap in weather conditions is a landlord’s absolute nightmare, for sod’s law the central heating system will go wrong, and why for emergencies I keep in storage 2 portable gas mobile heaters. In the OP’s case either the landlord or the agent is being a tight xxs, and they really need to have an empty property for 2-3 months to realise their short sightedness.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, a gas fire comes into it’s own, not just in the height of winter, but also during the rest of the year when the house does not warrant having the full central heating system running, but just the fixed gas fire heating the one room.
the place down the road is £50 more and it's an extra bedroom and conservetory, but it's being tied into a contract at the moment that puts me off moving
Wings said:
Have you thought of negotiating with the landlord or agents with the property down the road, on both the rent and the term of the Tenancy Agreement?
Perhaps after any negotiations you might have more ammunition to use against the present landlord/agents.
I wouldn't worry about negotiating with current landlords. if the new place is agreeable then take it regardless (if you can get it £50 a week less all the better, but that amout is peanuts really). Perhaps after any negotiations you might have more ammunition to use against the present landlord/agents.
Put this down to experience, I have rented for over 10yrs now, but always tried to get the deal up front and have spent very very little of my own money on upkeep. Infact where it was clear the landlord (or agent) was intending to squander my money rather than spend it on agreeable upkeep, I walked away. Renting does not have to mean sub-standard living, just find a decent landlord elsewhere.
davidspooner said:
Weird situation... sooner or later should he wish to sell the property he will have to repair the fire. Why not keep a) Legal b) hold of your tenant by doing it now?
You are to be congratulated on using so few words in your posting, the contents of which is absolutely correct, with the OP not helping the situation by allowing matters to continue for over 10 months.Wings said:
davidspooner said:
Weird situation... sooner or later should he wish to sell the property he will have to repair the fire. Why not keep a) Legal b) hold of your tenant by doing it now?
You are to be congratulated on using so few words in your posting, the contents of which is absolutely correct, with the OP not helping the situation by allowing matters to continue for over 10 months.there wasnt really much more i could do apart from have the work done myself and have the hassle of claiming it back. i've written to them, i've been nice with them, i've shouted at them, and i threatened to terminate the tennancy. in all it was about 10 months but in that time i negotiated a new security patio door as part of the overall draft/heat issue. they inspected, i questioned and unfortunately i was right.
the final straw was the being cut short and blatent fob off when i called to say the gsh wasnt working to it's best. we have now given written notice to terminate the tennancy, i give up, it's someone elses problem now.
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