Fitting new bathroom suite
Discussion
BoRED S2upid said:
Had a quote of £400 from a plumer but just how difficult a job is it?.
How big a plume did you want? 
BoRED S2upid said:
Maybe if I rip the old one out and take it down to the skip that may reduce the £400 fee.
Perhaps but you'll have to do some plumbing to do it.I did my bathroom successfully, it all depends on what your ability is and your risk profile.
seriously, if you can make half a dozen water tight joints how do you get dressed in the morning?!
As long as you understand how the bits work then there should be no problem. Plumbing is piss easy these days with plastic pipework and pushfit unions! It was pretty easy before with copper pipe and compression fittings. It was still not too difficult with copper, bending and solder!
Toilet, remove the old one, (when you do stuff an old tshirt up the soil pipe, it'll stop any water coming out) cistern first, followed by the pan. You should be left with a soil pipe in the floor (or poking out of the wall) and a cold water supply pipe. The new pan will need a gasket underneath it for the soil pipe or a rubber collar if it is coming out of the wall. The pan is secured to the floor by two bolts. Do them up gradually so as not to strain one side of the new pan. Once it is secure you can fit the cistern to the top(make sure to fit the flush mechanism inside first). There is usually a rubber gasket to fit between toilet pan and cistern, I would apply a bead of silicon to this to enhance the seal and to help keep the gasket in position. There will be two bolts that join pan to cistern and some holes in the back of the cistern to secure to the wall. The best thing to do here is to secure pan to cistern, put the screws into the wall and tighten up until level (it doesn't matter if the screw is still not fully home) then inject expanding foam behind the cistern to pack it out, once gone off you can do a half turn or so on the screws to tighten it up and stop any further movement.
The supply is simply connected to the pipe protruding from the underside of the cistern from the flush mechanism, make sure to put a shut off into the pipe if there isn't already one fitted.
The other parts are pretty much the same, remove old one, clean site of installation, make level and secure, then plumb in.
If your pipes are currently right up to the taps and such you can cut a few inches off and use flexi pipes to make all tap connections, as long as you fit s
t offs where there aren't some already!
As long as you understand how the bits work then there should be no problem. Plumbing is piss easy these days with plastic pipework and pushfit unions! It was pretty easy before with copper pipe and compression fittings. It was still not too difficult with copper, bending and solder!
Toilet, remove the old one, (when you do stuff an old tshirt up the soil pipe, it'll stop any water coming out) cistern first, followed by the pan. You should be left with a soil pipe in the floor (or poking out of the wall) and a cold water supply pipe. The new pan will need a gasket underneath it for the soil pipe or a rubber collar if it is coming out of the wall. The pan is secured to the floor by two bolts. Do them up gradually so as not to strain one side of the new pan. Once it is secure you can fit the cistern to the top(make sure to fit the flush mechanism inside first). There is usually a rubber gasket to fit between toilet pan and cistern, I would apply a bead of silicon to this to enhance the seal and to help keep the gasket in position. There will be two bolts that join pan to cistern and some holes in the back of the cistern to secure to the wall. The best thing to do here is to secure pan to cistern, put the screws into the wall and tighten up until level (it doesn't matter if the screw is still not fully home) then inject expanding foam behind the cistern to pack it out, once gone off you can do a half turn or so on the screws to tighten it up and stop any further movement.
The supply is simply connected to the pipe protruding from the underside of the cistern from the flush mechanism, make sure to put a shut off into the pipe if there isn't already one fitted.
The other parts are pretty much the same, remove old one, clean site of installation, make level and secure, then plumb in.
If your pipes are currently right up to the taps and such you can cut a few inches off and use flexi pipes to make all tap connections, as long as you fit s
t offs where there aren't some already! I removed my bathroom and replaced everything myself. I was pretty confident about giving it a go and borrowed a load of plumbing tools off a mate. Would definitely do it again, easier than I thought it would be. None of my soldered joints leaked, but lots of the compression fittings did. Tip - don't buy the cheap compression fittings, get decent ones.
bramley said:
None of my soldered joints leaked, but lots of the compression fittings did. Tip - don't buy the cheap compression fittings, get decent ones.
It's a question of how much grunt you give them - too little or too much and they can leak.I've had a couple of solder joints fail (I use solder rings) when I was working at the lowest point in the house and unknown to me a few drips of water had run into the joint.
Tip to the OP - if you go for it, buy some 15mm and 22mm push-fit stop ends for temporary closure on cut pipe ends so you can switch your water back on while you figure out what to do next! Also get a proper pipe-cutter - I find the little rotary ones great - because they give a nice smooth end.
bramley said:
buy some 15mm and 22mm push-fit stop ends for temporary closure on cut pipe ends so you can switch your water back on while you figure out what to do next!
Plumbing isn't rocket science but knowing what goes where and how to connect it can be. Many different fitting; Solder Ring, Capillary, Compression, Push-Fit and crimping. And similar with waste fittings.Just plan your time and workout what you need. As said above, use some PF stop-ends so you have time on your hands and have a pee bucket at the ready !!!
I've got a reasonable grasp on DIY and have done exactly that in an old house with no problem - it was my first plumbing excursion.
In my current house, I have done one of my en-suites - straight rip/replace in situ, and a major re-vamp of my main bathroom - including running new pipework for a shower and re-routing he existing pipework coming out of the floor back into the wall for toilet, rads and sink, re-tiling, lighting, cabinets etc.
Took a while, all joints copper compression as I am an amateur, don't want to set fire to my house with blowtorches and know nothing about the capabilities of plastic push fits. Result is (blowing own trumpet) fantastic, and didn't get a leak at all (unlike the stuff that the builders had put in before).
I have since been told that push fit plastic is durable enough, which I will consider using when I do the next en-suite to save some time on the spanners and the "did I get it tight enough but not too tight to ruin the olive" moment when switching the water back on
If I was you, I'd budget to use flexi for your tap connections and all the precise stuff in pipework is pretty much removed from the equation. When you seal in the bath, fill it with water - and leave it full while it cures thoroughly.
Rather than push fit stops, I'd install isolators on the pipework if you can for future ease of maintenance, and getting the water back on quicker to the rest of the house as you rip the old stuff out. This means you only have to drain the hot / cold systems once, isolate at all pipe cuts and switch on the rest of the water straight after the rip. You can then continue to work with out affecting the rest of the house's supply.
Obviously, make sure to get the isolators exactly where you want them for re-connection, or you will be draining it all again later as you amend it.
In my current house, I have done one of my en-suites - straight rip/replace in situ, and a major re-vamp of my main bathroom - including running new pipework for a shower and re-routing he existing pipework coming out of the floor back into the wall for toilet, rads and sink, re-tiling, lighting, cabinets etc.
Took a while, all joints copper compression as I am an amateur, don't want to set fire to my house with blowtorches and know nothing about the capabilities of plastic push fits. Result is (blowing own trumpet) fantastic, and didn't get a leak at all (unlike the stuff that the builders had put in before).
I have since been told that push fit plastic is durable enough, which I will consider using when I do the next en-suite to save some time on the spanners and the "did I get it tight enough but not too tight to ruin the olive" moment when switching the water back on
If I was you, I'd budget to use flexi for your tap connections and all the precise stuff in pipework is pretty much removed from the equation. When you seal in the bath, fill it with water - and leave it full while it cures thoroughly.
Rather than push fit stops, I'd install isolators on the pipework if you can for future ease of maintenance, and getting the water back on quicker to the rest of the house as you rip the old stuff out. This means you only have to drain the hot / cold systems once, isolate at all pipe cuts and switch on the rest of the water straight after the rip. You can then continue to work with out affecting the rest of the house's supply.
Obviously, make sure to get the isolators exactly where you want them for re-connection, or you will be draining it all again later as you amend it.
Edited by SeeFive on Thursday 14th January 17:29
lewes said:
Plumbing isn't rocket science but knowing what goes where and how to connect it can be. Many different fitting; Solder Ring, Capillary, Compression, Push-Fit and crimping. And similar with waste fittings.
....and be aware that of the 32mm and 40mm waste sizes, some outlets (Homebase) sell product with that as the outside diameter of the pipe, and some outlets (Keyline) as the internal diameter.monthefish said:
....and be aware that of the 32mm and 40mm waste sizes, some outlets (Homebase) sell product with that as the outside diameter of the pipe, and some outlets (Keyline) as the internal diameter.
There's another confusion whereby certain 32mm pipe won't quite fit into 32mm fittings! 'Marley' seems to ring a bell...Forgot to mention: ALWAYS start home plumbing jobs when the shops are open! You will be amazed how many times you have to pop out for a bit you forgot, or messed up!
Plumbing is not difficult, it just takes confidence and an understanding of how it works.
Flexible tap connectors, isolation valves, push fit cap ends will make your life easier.
If you are stuck, ask the guys at the merchants, they are always happy to help and will answer most of your questions.
The best bet for waste pipe if you are unsure, and they are not on display, is to use a universal connector (compression), its very rare they arn't compatible with different makes of pipe.
Flexible tap connectors, isolation valves, push fit cap ends will make your life easier.
If you are stuck, ask the guys at the merchants, they are always happy to help and will answer most of your questions.
The best bet for waste pipe if you are unsure, and they are not on display, is to use a universal connector (compression), its very rare they arn't compatible with different makes of pipe.
My advice to anyone doing DIY plumbing would be:
AVOID
Push-fit fittings that involve a grip ring.
Flexible tap connectors that have a braided stainless covering.
Push-fit waste fittings of any sort.
Non-fullflow isolating valves on tap supplies.
This information is brought to you by someone who has first-hand REAL WORLD experience of sorting out the problems they bring.
AVOID
Push-fit fittings that involve a grip ring.
Flexible tap connectors that have a braided stainless covering.
Push-fit waste fittings of any sort.
Non-fullflow isolating valves on tap supplies.
This information is brought to you by someone who has first-hand REAL WORLD experience of sorting out the problems they bring.
Simpo Two said:
monthefish said:
....and be aware that of the 32mm and 40mm waste sizes, some outlets (Homebase) sell product with that as the outside diameter of the pipe, and some outlets (Keyline) as the internal diameter.
There's another confusion whereby certain 32mm pipe won't quite fit into 32mm fittings! 'Marley' seems to ring a bell...
Never bought from Marley - are they o/d or i/d? (In case I'm ever in there and don't have my vernier on me)
Ferg said:
My advice to anyone doing DIY plumbing would be:
AVOID
Push-fit fittings that involve a grip ring.
Flexible tap connectors that have a braided stainless covering.
Push-fit waste fittings of any sort.
Non-fullflow isolating valves on tap supplies.
This information is brought to you by someone who has first-hand REAL WORLD experience of sorting out the problems they bring.
Out of interest, what problems have you had with the braided tap connectors?AVOID
Push-fit fittings that involve a grip ring.
Flexible tap connectors that have a braided stainless covering.
Push-fit waste fittings of any sort.
Non-fullflow isolating valves on tap supplies.
This information is brought to you by someone who has first-hand REAL WORLD experience of sorting out the problems they bring.
I'd agree on the push fit waste - always go solvent weld IMHO.
I've done what you're planning and had only minimal previous experience, it isn't difficult if you've done a bit of DIY before.
If you've got a merchant nearby I'd use them rather than one of the big DIY sheds. In my experience they'll be considerably cheaper and happy to offer advice if you need it.
What's the worse that can happen !
If you've got a merchant nearby I'd use them rather than one of the big DIY sheds. In my experience they'll be considerably cheaper and happy to offer advice if you need it.
What's the worse that can happen !
How long do you think it will take you?
Divide by £400 to get an hourly rate.
How much do you value you're spare time?
I'd pay £400 for a plumber to do the work like a shot.
Also, and I'm amazed no-one has mentioned this, but are you single? If not, how much of a bking will the missus give you in a fortnight when the lounge is flooded and you're still pissing in a bucket?!
Divide by £400 to get an hourly rate.
How much do you value you're spare time?
I'd pay £400 for a plumber to do the work like a shot.
Also, and I'm amazed no-one has mentioned this, but are you single? If not, how much of a b
king will the missus give you in a fortnight when the lounge is flooded and you're still pissing in a bucket?! Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff