Loft Conversion - Building Regs
Discussion
Last year I had a loft conversion in my bungalow. It was finished towards the end of Feb and the council buidling inspector came out for what I believed was a final inspection. At this point the loft conversion was 'complete' but not decorated in anyway. He had a quick look around, asked me some questions about the specification of the insulation which I was unable to answer. He then said he would speak to the builder about it and get back to me. I didn't hear anything back from him so, a month or so later, I phoned the builder myself and he told me that it had all been signed off and was sorted. So I thought all was done. I didn't hear anything back from the council. I'm now looking to move and when I was doing some enquires I found out that the council should have sent me a completetion notice for the work. When I phoned them to enquire about this they eventually told me that it hadn't been signed off and that it was still waiting for a final inspection (I say eventually as I called them 3 or 4 times and each time was told "someone would call me back" and they never did).
Finally the building inspector cam out to do the final inspection. When he came he told me they couldn't signed it off due to, amoung other things:
- The insulation in the walls and ceilings being too thin
- The spindles in the staircase being too close together - by 1cm at their thinnest point
He then made an appointment to come back with his supervisor and the builder to sort things out. I phoned the night before they were due to arrive to confirm the appointment and was told that neither could make it so the appointment was cancelled (they knew this was the case a week prior but decided I didn't need to know this). The same thing happened on the next appointment althoughthe one inspector did turn up, two hours late, to tell me the same thing. Another appointment was arranged for the supervisor and builder to attend. Again neither could make it, which I wasn't told, and again the inspector was late. This time he told me he had his supervisor's permission to make a ruling and ruled that the insulation does have to be changed and the spindles on the staircase have to be changed.
Now, I can understand why the insulation has to be changed. However, the spindles on the staircase are another matter. Basically the reg say they have to be no more than 100mm apart. The builder put them 100mm apart at the top but, due to the shape of the spindles, they go in by 1cm at certain points. The spindles I have are very similar to 'C' as seen below:
The council are now saying that I have to move and add an extra spindle to each length of bannister for the sake of this 1cm difference on one part of the spindles. My major grievence with this is not the regulations themselves but with the fact that when the inspector came in Februray he didn't mentioned the stair spindles at all. At this point the staircase was complete but hadn't even been rubbed down. The place was still pretty much a building site and, it the staircase had to be taken apart it wouldn't have caused any major distruption. As it now stands the staircase has been rubbed down, primmed, undercoated, and patined. The whole area has also been carpeted. The staircase has over 30 spindles and took almost a week to finish. It's now finished to a nice standard and the thought of having to rip it apart for the sake of 1cm fills me with dread.
Does anyone know exactly where I stand on this? Does the fact that the council came out, when it was completed but not 'finished', but didn't even mention the spindles have any bearing on this? It seems to me that they feel they can treat you however they want, not mention things at one point and then bring in an objection when it's much more difficult to put it right, and generally that you should be greatful that they ever bother to show up.
Finally the building inspector cam out to do the final inspection. When he came he told me they couldn't signed it off due to, amoung other things:
- The insulation in the walls and ceilings being too thin
- The spindles in the staircase being too close together - by 1cm at their thinnest point
He then made an appointment to come back with his supervisor and the builder to sort things out. I phoned the night before they were due to arrive to confirm the appointment and was told that neither could make it so the appointment was cancelled (they knew this was the case a week prior but decided I didn't need to know this). The same thing happened on the next appointment althoughthe one inspector did turn up, two hours late, to tell me the same thing. Another appointment was arranged for the supervisor and builder to attend. Again neither could make it, which I wasn't told, and again the inspector was late. This time he told me he had his supervisor's permission to make a ruling and ruled that the insulation does have to be changed and the spindles on the staircase have to be changed.
Now, I can understand why the insulation has to be changed. However, the spindles on the staircase are another matter. Basically the reg say they have to be no more than 100mm apart. The builder put them 100mm apart at the top but, due to the shape of the spindles, they go in by 1cm at certain points. The spindles I have are very similar to 'C' as seen below:
The council are now saying that I have to move and add an extra spindle to each length of bannister for the sake of this 1cm difference on one part of the spindles. My major grievence with this is not the regulations themselves but with the fact that when the inspector came in Februray he didn't mentioned the stair spindles at all. At this point the staircase was complete but hadn't even been rubbed down. The place was still pretty much a building site and, it the staircase had to be taken apart it wouldn't have caused any major distruption. As it now stands the staircase has been rubbed down, primmed, undercoated, and patined. The whole area has also been carpeted. The staircase has over 30 spindles and took almost a week to finish. It's now finished to a nice standard and the thought of having to rip it apart for the sake of 1cm fills me with dread.
Does anyone know exactly where I stand on this? Does the fact that the council came out, when it was completed but not 'finished', but didn't even mention the spindles have any bearing on this? It seems to me that they feel they can treat you however they want, not mention things at one point and then bring in an objection when it's much more difficult to put it right, and generally that you should be greatful that they ever bother to show up.
Edited by Dr_Gonzo on Tuesday 19th January 14:54
Sorry fella! Looks like you will have to move them!
I personally called my L.A. just to ask on your behalf and they told me they wouldn't issue a completion certificate if your staircase was on their patch!
Health & Safety I'm afraid!
However you should have some recourse on your builder who has now installed a staircase which doesn't comply with current Building Regs!
I personally called my L.A. just to ask on your behalf and they told me they wouldn't issue a completion certificate if your staircase was on their patch!
Health & Safety I'm afraid!
However you should have some recourse on your builder who has now installed a staircase which doesn't comply with current Building Regs!
The only get out I can think of is that building regs are not actually law in most cases. There will be something that you have to do and the building regs then define an approved way of doing that. silly example: the joists must hold the floor up and A x B size joists are considered suitable. If you can show that what you've done meets the requirement then you can argue your corner. I have no idea what that reg says so I dont know what the requirement is.
The requirement in respect of the stairs is straightforward. There should be no opening that will allow a 100mm sphere to pass through. Thats because it's about the size of a toddlers head and stops them hanging themselves.It only applies to buildings where children are admitted on a regular basis, so homes obviously come into it.
Your experience of the Building Control department is unusual these days I suspect. If your inspecting officer wasn't able to make a decision on his own then he's probably pretty inexperienced and that may be why he missed the stairs when he inspected earlier.
Its a nonsense that they are insisting that the balustrades are moved for such a small contravention.
Building Reg approved Document K is the one that covers it..Section 1.29
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF...
The actual regulation simply says that the stairs should be safe to use. I wouldn't give up yet with Building Control as they have the option to 'relax' the regulations where appropriate.
Hope that helps a little but if you need more, I'll do what I can.
Your experience of the Building Control department is unusual these days I suspect. If your inspecting officer wasn't able to make a decision on his own then he's probably pretty inexperienced and that may be why he missed the stairs when he inspected earlier.
Its a nonsense that they are insisting that the balustrades are moved for such a small contravention.
Building Reg approved Document K is the one that covers it..Section 1.29
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF...
The actual regulation simply says that the stairs should be safe to use. I wouldn't give up yet with Building Control as they have the option to 'relax' the regulations where appropriate.
Hope that helps a little but if you need more, I'll do what I can.
Do this, we do similar things all the time to get round difficult building inspectors.
B17NNS said:
Cover the staircase with hardboard and paint it with emulsion the same as your walls.
Get the buiding inspector out to sign off the now safe staircase.
I think you can figure the rest out?
Get the buiding inspector out to sign off the now safe staircase.
I think you can figure the rest out?
Edited by plug on Tuesday 19th January 19:42
9000 said:
one other option may be to see if an independent building inspector will sign it off.
You don't have to use the council, authorised inspectors in the private sector can issue completion notices also.
See http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Plann...
That's really only an option before you start works. We mostly use Approved Inspectors on our commercial work.You don't have to use the council, authorised inspectors in the private sector can issue completion notices also.
See http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Plann...
plug said:
Do this, we do similar things all the time to get round difficult building inspectors.
As posted earlier you've got a reasonable chance to challenge this in court but for about 3mins of your lawyers time this should solve it. FWIW I'd use 1/8" ply - looks more permanent and no need to rub the BCO's face in it.B17NNS said:
Cover the staircase with hardboard and paint it with emulsion the same as your walls.
Get the buiding inspector out to sign off the now safe staircase.
I think you can figure the rest out?
Get the buiding inspector out to sign off the now safe staircase.
I think you can figure the rest out?
B17NNS said:
Cover the staircase with hardboard and paint it with emulsion the same as your walls.
Get the buiding inspector out to sign off the now safe staircase.
I think you can figure the rest out?
I would say this, blue tack the git on so it is secure but easy to take back off without causing damage.Get the buiding inspector out to sign off the now safe staircase.
I think you can figure the rest out?
As for the insulation...Don't think there is any other way around it...so would probably end up banging some more in.
Am I being dim? You say the spindles are too close together, yet by my reading of the BR there isn't a provision for too narrow a gap only too wide?
Getting the insulation wrong is pretty daft - who spec'd it all, your builder?
I think you need to be having a chat with the Builder rather than taking your frustration out of the BRO.
FWIW, our BRO has been a star, good bloke, happy to help us with some of the issues we have with land levels and space in our extension that make some things not very straight forward.
Getting the insulation wrong is pretty daft - who spec'd it all, your builder?
I think you need to be having a chat with the Builder rather than taking your frustration out of the BRO.
FWIW, our BRO has been a star, good bloke, happy to help us with some of the issues we have with land levels and space in our extension that make some things not very straight forward.
Building control wanted to check the insulation in our new build before it was covered in. We put some of the boarding and battening up but they wanted bits left uncovered on each section so that they could check - I got the impression that this was pretty standard?
I really do think you've been treated badly by your builder OP, if you've paid for him the do the job then it's up to him to make sure that it's done properly and within the building regs.
I think you may have gone about this poorly with the BRO by the sounds of things. This isn't the BRO's fault, but he is the man who has the ability to help you to overcome this as best you can. Facing up to him and dragging his supervisor into things has probably not helped. I might be wrong and if so I'm sorry, but if you've taken this approach with building control to date then I'd give them a ring and apologise for being arsey and ask for their assistance in resolving this the best way possible
As I said previously, our BRO has been great - we've had some real issues with differing ground levels (2 storey granny annexe extension on the side of a bungalow) which has made dealing with the stairs tricky as well as some problems with door sizes where the build didn't go quite to plan! Our guy has given us latitude where he can see that we really have tried to comply but haven't quite got it right.
What are you planning to do about the insulation? Have you got sufficient head height?
I really do think you've been treated badly by your builder OP, if you've paid for him the do the job then it's up to him to make sure that it's done properly and within the building regs.
I think you may have gone about this poorly with the BRO by the sounds of things. This isn't the BRO's fault, but he is the man who has the ability to help you to overcome this as best you can. Facing up to him and dragging his supervisor into things has probably not helped. I might be wrong and if so I'm sorry, but if you've taken this approach with building control to date then I'd give them a ring and apologise for being arsey and ask for their assistance in resolving this the best way possible
As I said previously, our BRO has been great - we've had some real issues with differing ground levels (2 storey granny annexe extension on the side of a bungalow) which has made dealing with the stairs tricky as well as some problems with door sizes where the build didn't go quite to plan! Our guy has given us latitude where he can see that we really have tried to comply but haven't quite got it right.
What are you planning to do about the insulation? Have you got sufficient head height?
Piglet said:
Building control wanted to check the insulation in our new build before it was covered in. We put some of the boarding and battening up but they wanted bits left uncovered on each section so that they could check - I got the impression that this was pretty standard?
I really do think you've been treated badly by your builder OP, if you've paid for him the do the job then it's up to him to make sure that it's done properly and within the building regs.
I think you may have gone about this poorly with the BRO by the sounds of things. This isn't the BRO's fault, but he is the man who has the ability to help you to overcome this as best you can. Facing up to him and dragging his supervisor into things has probably not helped. I might be wrong and if so I'm sorry, but if you've taken this approach with building control to date then I'd give them a ring and apologise for being arsey and ask for their assistance in resolving this the best way possible
As I said previously, our BRO has been great - we've had some real issues with differing ground levels (2 storey granny annexe extension on the side of a bungalow) which has made dealing with the stairs tricky as well as some problems with door sizes where the build didn't go quite to plan! Our guy has given us latitude where he can see that we really have tried to comply but haven't quite got it right.
What are you planning to do about the insulation? Have you got sufficient head height?
Thanks for the post. Although my post may have come across as if I'm in battle with the BRO it's the complete opposit and actually just my frustration with how I feel I've been treated in terms of them not arriving when they say they will, coming out and missing things which then then pick up on etc. Despite my tone in the OP I've actually got on very well with the BRO as I know they're on my side and trying to help. The supervisor coming out was entirely his suggestion and I've never mentioned going 'over his head' or anything like that. It's all been friendly with them and they're on my side in trying to rectify this. I really do think you've been treated badly by your builder OP, if you've paid for him the do the job then it's up to him to make sure that it's done properly and within the building regs.
I think you may have gone about this poorly with the BRO by the sounds of things. This isn't the BRO's fault, but he is the man who has the ability to help you to overcome this as best you can. Facing up to him and dragging his supervisor into things has probably not helped. I might be wrong and if so I'm sorry, but if you've taken this approach with building control to date then I'd give them a ring and apologise for being arsey and ask for their assistance in resolving this the best way possible
As I said previously, our BRO has been great - we've had some real issues with differing ground levels (2 storey granny annexe extension on the side of a bungalow) which has made dealing with the stairs tricky as well as some problems with door sizes where the build didn't go quite to plan! Our guy has given us latitude where he can see that we really have tried to comply but haven't quite got it right.
What are you planning to do about the insulation? Have you got sufficient head height?
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff