Dealing with noisy neighbour without resorting to Council
Discussion
Hi all,
We're currently living with a nightmare neighbour, more specifically his nightmare cockerels. We've lived next to him for nearly 6 years now, first 4 perfectly happily. At the end of Sept 2008 he came around and told us he was going to "get some chickens tomorrow" giving us loads of notice. At no time were cockerels mentioned but we chewed the cud with him, had a nice chat about stuff and congratuated him on getting a new girlfriend, all very sociable.
Anyway within a few weeks he had about 15 birds including 5 cockerels. Needless to say the noise was terrible 24 hours a day. Naturally we spoke to him about it and he promised to do lots of things such as locking them up in the coop overnight, sound proofing the coop and as a last resort he would tie their beaks closed somehow. Naturally he didn't do anything effective, his soundproofing consisted of putting a tarp over the shed he uses as the coop.
Gave him a week or two and spoke again, his next excuse was he was fattening the cockerels up to sell at St. Neots Market for Christmas, can't believe that can be legal as obviously the birds aren't subject to any H&S type stuff and could have any old infection. They're all ex-battery chickens.
Anyway Christmas came and went and he did get rid of them so things were peaceful for a while. Low and behold of course a new cockerel arrived and f! me it was noisy. Again we complained and got fobbed off with crap excuses, he even admitted it was the noisiest bird he'd ever known - great! Things came to a head in June 09 as we'd had enough and had spoken to the Council. We'd done the two weeks monitoring and had evidence that the bird was crowing well over 100 times a day at all hours. I got him in and miraculously maintain my calm and explained that if he didn't do anything we would proceed with the Council. He agreed to get rid of the cockerel again stating that it was the noisiest he'd ever known but insisted he would get more in the future as he was breeding them. We explained that we didn't consider that was acceptable but he just started getting aggressive and came up with the genius statement that a good cockerel only crows between 4am and 8am. I question if he considered that in anyway acceptable as obviously our sleep would still be getting disturbed, he agreed that it wasn't but he'd still get them. Anyway he went and did dispose of the cockerel. We found this out quite quickly as it was hung up on the fence surrounding his run minus a head. Naturally we weren't happy with having a fly covered dead chicken on the fence in mid-summer so confronted him at which point it was all "f. you, you ain't done nothing but complain since day one" and the rest of it I'm sure you can imagine.
Fast forward past a few quiet months when low and behold he gets more cockerels which are surprisingly just as noisy as the noisiest one he'd ever known. Joy.
Right, bit of background to explain why I'm not in prison for murder (yet). I started a new job on 1st Oct '08, three days after he first got the chickens. That job involves a 135mile round trip which is frankly killing me but I need to keep a roof over our heads and there just isn't anything closer. My woes pale to insignificance though as Ms B19GRR was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in July '07 and has been through hell ever since and is still extremely ill due to complications caused by the Chemo and Radiotherapy and can be bedridden for days at a time. To top it all we've been trying to sell the house for too long now, the old recession hasn't helped there! Of course anyone that comes to view loves the place but not when they go out back and here the chickens. It's because we're selling the house that we're reluctant to continue with the Council process as far as I know any complaints made will show up in the conveyancing searches which could well scupper any sale.
So we're looking for advise to see if anything else can be done. We're pretty sure we've exhausted the diplomatic route with the neighbour (we haven't spoken to them since June '09 oddly enough) so we're considering if there's any mileage in getting a solicitor to contact his landlord (yes, the scrote rents). However we don't know anything about the landlord and he could equally be a nasty inbred Fenlander like the neighbour is. As a last resort we will go with the council as we just can't live with this situation any more - I'm even sleeping downstairs on a sofa now just so I can get a semi-decent nights sleep - but if anyone has any other suggestions they will be very greatfully received!
Oh yes his lovely new gf seems to have moved in now and has brought a yappy dog, think it's a King Charles Spaniel, that they appear to leave outside in all weather, just to add to the rural bliss.
Cheers,
Rob
We're currently living with a nightmare neighbour, more specifically his nightmare cockerels. We've lived next to him for nearly 6 years now, first 4 perfectly happily. At the end of Sept 2008 he came around and told us he was going to "get some chickens tomorrow" giving us loads of notice. At no time were cockerels mentioned but we chewed the cud with him, had a nice chat about stuff and congratuated him on getting a new girlfriend, all very sociable.
Anyway within a few weeks he had about 15 birds including 5 cockerels. Needless to say the noise was terrible 24 hours a day. Naturally we spoke to him about it and he promised to do lots of things such as locking them up in the coop overnight, sound proofing the coop and as a last resort he would tie their beaks closed somehow. Naturally he didn't do anything effective, his soundproofing consisted of putting a tarp over the shed he uses as the coop.
Gave him a week or two and spoke again, his next excuse was he was fattening the cockerels up to sell at St. Neots Market for Christmas, can't believe that can be legal as obviously the birds aren't subject to any H&S type stuff and could have any old infection. They're all ex-battery chickens.
Anyway Christmas came and went and he did get rid of them so things were peaceful for a while. Low and behold of course a new cockerel arrived and f! me it was noisy. Again we complained and got fobbed off with crap excuses, he even admitted it was the noisiest bird he'd ever known - great! Things came to a head in June 09 as we'd had enough and had spoken to the Council. We'd done the two weeks monitoring and had evidence that the bird was crowing well over 100 times a day at all hours. I got him in and miraculously maintain my calm and explained that if he didn't do anything we would proceed with the Council. He agreed to get rid of the cockerel again stating that it was the noisiest he'd ever known but insisted he would get more in the future as he was breeding them. We explained that we didn't consider that was acceptable but he just started getting aggressive and came up with the genius statement that a good cockerel only crows between 4am and 8am. I question if he considered that in anyway acceptable as obviously our sleep would still be getting disturbed, he agreed that it wasn't but he'd still get them. Anyway he went and did dispose of the cockerel. We found this out quite quickly as it was hung up on the fence surrounding his run minus a head. Naturally we weren't happy with having a fly covered dead chicken on the fence in mid-summer so confronted him at which point it was all "f. you, you ain't done nothing but complain since day one" and the rest of it I'm sure you can imagine.
Fast forward past a few quiet months when low and behold he gets more cockerels which are surprisingly just as noisy as the noisiest one he'd ever known. Joy.
Right, bit of background to explain why I'm not in prison for murder (yet). I started a new job on 1st Oct '08, three days after he first got the chickens. That job involves a 135mile round trip which is frankly killing me but I need to keep a roof over our heads and there just isn't anything closer. My woes pale to insignificance though as Ms B19GRR was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in July '07 and has been through hell ever since and is still extremely ill due to complications caused by the Chemo and Radiotherapy and can be bedridden for days at a time. To top it all we've been trying to sell the house for too long now, the old recession hasn't helped there! Of course anyone that comes to view loves the place but not when they go out back and here the chickens. It's because we're selling the house that we're reluctant to continue with the Council process as far as I know any complaints made will show up in the conveyancing searches which could well scupper any sale.
So we're looking for advise to see if anything else can be done. We're pretty sure we've exhausted the diplomatic route with the neighbour (we haven't spoken to them since June '09 oddly enough) so we're considering if there's any mileage in getting a solicitor to contact his landlord (yes, the scrote rents). However we don't know anything about the landlord and he could equally be a nasty inbred Fenlander like the neighbour is. As a last resort we will go with the council as we just can't live with this situation any more - I'm even sleeping downstairs on a sofa now just so I can get a semi-decent nights sleep - but if anyone has any other suggestions they will be very greatfully received!
Oh yes his lovely new gf seems to have moved in now and has brought a yappy dog, think it's a King Charles Spaniel, that they appear to leave outside in all weather, just to add to the rural bliss.
Cheers,
Rob
If you're going to sell the house anyway, would it just be easier to live with it for now .. also do neither of your neighbours go to work - just wondering how are they affected by the noise? I'm not going to suggest what i would do - but let's just say i'd help out with the feeding.
digimeistter said:
A call to DEFRA might be worth a shot too
I maybe wrong, but i think you're allowed less than 50 or so birds. I used to have a neighbour who bred poultry - didn't bother me much but it drove my neighbours mad.Edited by fido on Sunday 28th March 15:59
Thanks for the thoughts all! Obviously I'm very tempted by the Nuking option, have they perfected the 1/4acre no-fallout destruct-o-matic yet?
Sounds like we need to talk to our solicitor and see where we can take it with them.
Fido, we had basically resigned ourselves to living with it and hoping whoever buys the place is deaf and doesn't notice but God knows when it'll sell, word is the market is improving but that word comes via our Estate Agent, say no more
Life is just too miserable though and the situation is really starting to effect both of our mental states.
As for them working, guess what? He's officially disabled and on benefits. Yes he was involved in a nasty accident years back which messed up one of his shoulders but oddly enough he seems to have no problem pushing a rotivator around and various other DIY tasks. As far as I know she does that hands free massage crap (no offence to other practitioners of said art!) and various other waste of oxygen activities but she's probably on benefits anyway. Funnily enough I was chatting with our window cleaner (lovely guy who lives in the village) who now refuses to clean his windows as he wouldn't pay him £6 he owed, anyway window cleaner thought she must be a 'lady of the night' as he couldn't figure why anyone would willing spend time with the little scrote without money being involved, that brought a smile to my face
Cheers,
Rob
Sounds like we need to talk to our solicitor and see where we can take it with them.
Fido, we had basically resigned ourselves to living with it and hoping whoever buys the place is deaf and doesn't notice but God knows when it'll sell, word is the market is improving but that word comes via our Estate Agent, say no more
Life is just too miserable though and the situation is really starting to effect both of our mental states.As for them working, guess what? He's officially disabled and on benefits. Yes he was involved in a nasty accident years back which messed up one of his shoulders but oddly enough he seems to have no problem pushing a rotivator around and various other DIY tasks. As far as I know she does that hands free massage crap (no offence to other practitioners of said art!) and various other waste of oxygen activities but she's probably on benefits anyway. Funnily enough I was chatting with our window cleaner (lovely guy who lives in the village) who now refuses to clean his windows as he wouldn't pay him £6 he owed, anyway window cleaner thought she must be a 'lady of the night' as he couldn't figure why anyone would willing spend time with the little scrote without money being involved, that brought a smile to my face
Cheers,
Rob
Neighbour disputes won't show up on conveyancing, but you will be required to declare any disputes that exist, basically anything material.
However since you haven't been able to sell the house because of them then you don't really have anything to lose? On the HIP questionnaire you could just put "Neighbour kept noisy cockerels, complaint filed with council and cockerels removed".
However since you haven't been able to sell the house because of them then you don't really have anything to lose? On the HIP questionnaire you could just put "Neighbour kept noisy cockerels, complaint filed with council and cockerels removed".
you got me, what I meant was I could never be so thoughtless myself, digimeistter said:
digimeistter said:
there will be a clause in the contract regarding annoyance to neighbours
"cough"Cheers,
Rob
I'd stop being diplomatic and go in both barrells....you'll really struggle to sell your house for market value with that in the background.
He told you he is breeding them so presumably he's running this as a business ?
My guess is that
-His lease doesn't allow this
-He probably hasn't declared any income from it
-He hasn't told his insurance company he is running a business from home
-He probably hasn't had his property inspected by whichever body checks agricultural premises...or declared it to them
If I was you I would probably go with the last one....they could shut him down pretty quickly I would think. Or maybe the RSPB ?
We had a problem with some neighbours and tried to settle it diplomatically...just didn't work. Went legal and even then it took a long time to sort out but it is now sorted....they will never speak to us again but I couldn't care less!
He told you he is breeding them so presumably he's running this as a business ?
My guess is that
-His lease doesn't allow this
-He probably hasn't declared any income from it
-He hasn't told his insurance company he is running a business from home
-He probably hasn't had his property inspected by whichever body checks agricultural premises...or declared it to them
If I was you I would probably go with the last one....they could shut him down pretty quickly I would think. Or maybe the RSPB ?
We had a problem with some neighbours and tried to settle it diplomatically...just didn't work. Went legal and even then it took a long time to sort out but it is now sorted....they will never speak to us again but I couldn't care less!
Beardy10 said:
He told you he is breeding them so presumably he's running this as a business ?
-His lease doesn't allow this
-He probably hasn't declared any income from it
-He hasn't told his insurance company he is running a business from home
-He probably hasn't had his property inspected by whichever body checks agricultural premises...or declared it to them
I have sympathy with you, although I can't figure out exactly what the bloke is trying to do. I would have thought the market for eggs was the most profitable and you don't need any cockerels for that. Free range eggs are £1.20 to £1.50 dozen but point of lay hens are only £4-ish each around here and much slower to sell. And as for fattening up birds for the table - well, forget it on a small scale if they are free range.-His lease doesn't allow this
-He probably hasn't declared any income from it
-He hasn't told his insurance company he is running a business from home
-He probably hasn't had his property inspected by whichever body checks agricultural premises...or declared it to them
Anyway, as Beardy says, with 5 cockerels it's undoubtedly a business so the landlord/council is first contact. If you could prove it's a business then all sorts of things click into place, for example water rates are different for commercial and domestic use. Secondly, and this is sneaky, is the DHSS if he's on benefits and the taxman if he's earning from it, although I'd warn him first. I doubt there's any mileage in the insurance or last one, you can keep hens for your own use without inspection or informing authorities.
Is where you live urban or rural ? I only ask because our 4 hens create piles of poo, which has to go somewhere. We're ok because we've got plenty of land to spread it around on, but in an urban situation then I'd be thinking of a health hazard with 15 birds cr@pping away daily.
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