Domestic Indoor Fire Curtains

[Rags]

Hello,

I am planning to knock a wall through as per a previous post.

In order to ensure that this meets fire regs, I will need a domestic fire curtain that drops upon smoke detection - as per instructions from my Structural Engineer (a fellow PHer)

He is currently awaiting a quote but I am eager to find out if has anyone had one these done?

And obviously price depends upon dimensions but are these expensive?

Many Thanks

R

[Busamav]

Would be interested to see a layout that requires one ,I assume you are taking away the protected route from a loft coversion or similar

It is domestic situation ?

Edited by Busamav on Saturday 15th May 18:56

[Rags]

Busamav said:

Would be interested to see a layout that requires one ,I assume you are taking away the protected route from a loft coversion or similar

It is domestic situation ?

Edited by Busamav on Saturday 15th May 18:56

Hi Busamav

http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...

You actually posted some helpful stuff on here.

Its in reference to the wall that I thought was not permitted for knocking through. However the structural engineer has come up with some clever solutions to this issue, specifically the fire curtain option......

[silverthorn2151]

I'd be interested to know exactly what requirement is triggering the need for sucha device. Fire curtains are rarely successful in my experience and can be nothing but a pain in the bum. They can also be very expensive. We had occassion to

I have read through the previous post you refer to. I'm happy to throw my twopence worth of advice into the ring but don't really understand the issue. If the property is more than 2 stories there can be a need for a staircase to be protected, but that's not by lobbies, just by a fire resisting door.

As I say, with a bit more info.....

[Rags]

silverthorn2151 said:

I'd be interested to know exactly what requirement is triggering the need for sucha device. Fire curtains are rarely successful in my experience and can be nothing but a pain in the bum. They can also be very expensive. We had occassion to

I have read through the previous post you refer to. I'm happy to throw my twopence worth of advice into the ring but don't really understand the issue. If the property is more than 2 stories there can be a need for a staircase to be protected, but that's not by lobbies, just by a fire resisting door.

As I say, with a bit more info.....

I live in a period property that unfortunately has the kitchen very near the front door / hallway corridor.

The main issue is that once the kitchen is opened up by removing the wall, in the event of a fire, the only exit route out of the flat is through the kitchen / hallway out of the flat.

Aside from jumping from a 4th storey window, its the only option.

The theory is that a fire curtain would drop at the sign of excessive smoke and hopefully contain the fire in the kitchen area and ensure a safe path to exit the building.

Does this make sense?

[hman]

Rags said:

silverthorn2151 said:

I'd be interested to know exactly what requirement is triggering the need for sucha device. Fire curtains are rarely successful in my experience and can be nothing but a pain in the bum. They can also be very expensive. We had occassion to

I have read through the previous post you refer to. I'm happy to throw my twopence worth of advice into the ring but don't really understand the issue. If the property is more than 2 stories there can be a need for a staircase to be protected, but that's not by lobbies, just by a fire resisting door.

As I say, with a bit more info.....

I live in a period property that unfortunately has the kitchen very near the front door / hallway corridor.

The main issue is that once the kitchen is opened up by removing the wall, in the event of a fire, the only exit route out of the flat is through the kitchen / hallway out of the flat.

Aside from jumping from a 4th storey window, its the only option.

The theory is that a fire curtain would drop at the sign of excessive smoke and hopefully contain the fire in the kitchen area and ensure a safe path to exit the building.

Does this make sense?

why not an ansul / r102 type kitchen suppression system instead?

[Busamav]

Rags said:

[The theory is that a fire curtain would drop at the sign of excessive smoke and hopefully contain the fire in the kitchen area and ensure a safe path to exit the building.

thus trapping the occupant in the blazing kitchen

[Engineer1]

Busamav said:

Rags said:

[The theory is that a fire curtain would drop at the sign of excessive smoke and hopefully contain the fire in the kitchen area and ensure a safe path to exit the building.

thus trapping the occupant in the blazing kitchen

And ensuring any use of the grill or toaster was accompanied by the curtain falling

[silverthorn2151]

You know, the more I think about this, the worse the smoke curtain idea seems.

What we need to know is:

1. How many floors in the house.
2. How the ground floor is arranged.
3. With the wall removed, does the staircase come down directly into the kitchen?
4. To what extent is the remainder of the ground floor open plan.
5. What windows are available for either escape or rescue at second and third floor (I think you call that 4th floor in one of your posts)
6. How is the staircase protected above the ground floor? i.e are there fire doors etc to door openings onto the staircase.
7. Is the house a listed building?
8. Does it have a mains powered fire alarm?

[Busamav]

It is a block of flats , hence the need for smoke lobbies.

[silverthorn2151]

Ah, hence the 4th floor comment.....

Starts to make a bit more sense. Still a terrible idea though and I'm not sure it would be acceptable.

[Busamav]

silverthorn2151 said:

Ah, hence the 4th floor comment.....

Still a terrible idea though and I'm not sure it would be acceptable.

Certainly something that I would not want in an apartment , trapping somebodys means of escape is a potential disaster.

Not sure of the costs , but such a shutter on a fusible link will not be cheap

[Rags]

The experts come out of the woodwork!

My flat consists of an entry hall adjacent to the kitchen. At the moment, the kitchen has its own door and there is another door that separates the living area from the kitchen at the end of the hallway.

I enquired about knocking down the wall and thus opening the kitchen into the hallway.

The building control regs stated that I need to have two doors between the kitchen and the living area. In order to exit the building, I require a clear path to getting out of the flat.

So, as a result, I am not allowed to knock down the wall unless there is a barrier (re iterating points previously made).

What are your suggestions if you believe a fire curtain is not the answer?

[Busamav]

move on

[hman]

suggestions are

Domestic sprinkler system to bs9251

Watermist system to FIA Code of practice, and NFPA750, fire tested to imo res a 800 to protect the access egress systems (although generally building control want a system with a BS but i have installed many of these as compensatory features)


Ansul/R102 system installed on the cooking equipment in the kitchen installed and fire tested to UL300.


who is your local authority, I have some contacts...

[jules_s]

hman said:

suggestions are

Domestic sprinkler system to bs9251
...

That might satisfy the LA/fire officer (but I doubt it), and I doubt the landlords would be happy let alone the insurance company(s) given its on an upper floor.

I think we need some sort of floor plan to comment on.

My first impression is that the concept is a no-go. Any shutter (and atm that's all I can think of) is going to cost a grand or so+....and it will have to be linked into the buildings fire alarm (blank cheque for the maintenance co)

I don't think I would bother...too much £££ for too little gain.

[hman]

jules_s said:

hman said:

suggestions are

Domestic sprinkler system to bs9251
...

That might satisfy the LA/fire officer (but I doubt it), and I doubt the landlords would be happy let alone the insurance company(s) given its on an upper floor.

I think we need some sort of floor plan to comment on.

My first impression is that the concept is a no-go. Any shutter (and atm that's all I can think of) is going to cost a grand or so+....and it will have to be linked into the buildings fire alarm (blank cheque for the maintenance co)

I don't think I would bother...too much £££ for too little gain.

Ok, but we use these and the other suggestions on a weekly basis as compensatory features - and they are very readily taken up.

Just saying...

[jules_s]

hman said:

Ok, but we use these and the other suggestions on a weekly basis as compensatory features - and they are very readily taken up.

Just saying...

Out of interest, taken up by whom?

[hman]

jules_s said:

hman said:

Ok, but we use these and the other suggestions on a weekly basis as compensatory features - and they are very readily taken up.

Just saying...

Out of interest, taken up by whom?

by contractors, consultants, end users.

Given the go ahead by BC,FO,LA.

[jules_s]

hman said:

jules_s said:

hman said:

Ok, but we use these and the other suggestions on a weekly basis as compensatory features - and they are very readily taken up.

Just saying...

Out of interest, taken up by whom?

by contractors, consultants, end users.

Given the go ahead by BC,FO,LA.

We may be talking cross purposes here, but the daddy is the insurance company.

BC,FO,LA have little or no control if the building isn't insured....and believe me the insurers call all of the cards in that respect.