Garderner builder types advice plz - Indian Sandstone paving
Discussion
Guys
We're getting some quotes for our garden; we want some paving slabs put down, not very expensive or fancy ones just simple and functional, the guy that came round last night said he would use Indian sandstone ones over the 'usual' type. What is the difference? If they are the same price should I go for the sandstone.
As you've guess I know nothing about gardening or slabs or paving.
thanks
We're getting some quotes for our garden; we want some paving slabs put down, not very expensive or fancy ones just simple and functional, the guy that came round last night said he would use Indian sandstone ones over the 'usual' type. What is the difference? If they are the same price should I go for the sandstone.
As you've guess I know nothing about gardening or slabs or paving.
thanks
Indian sandstone will be fine. It's an economic alternative to other natural stone slabs and is available in a wide range of shades to complement your colour schemes elsewhere in the garden. The cost compares very favourably with artificial slabs, but it looks so much better as it weathers or can be jet washed to bring it up as new.
The first batches imported to temperate climes suffered with frost damage as soft stone was quarried out. The stone being supplied now should be much better. I've used it in several areas and it's been fine through the snow, frost and ice.
Have a look at this link: http://www.rock-unique.com/paving_-_section/sandst... for a good idea of the colour range available & prices.
The first batches imported to temperate climes suffered with frost damage as soft stone was quarried out. The stone being supplied now should be much better. I've used it in several areas and it's been fine through the snow, frost and ice.
Have a look at this link: http://www.rock-unique.com/paving_-_section/sandst... for a good idea of the colour range available & prices.
Edited by 58warren on Friday 6th August 10:41
As above really, only thing i would add is that we always lay it on a proper wet cement mix as the thickness usually varies quite a bit and then we point the joints. Earlier in the year i was called out to a customers house where a contractor had just laid them on a sand bed and they had moved and weeds were growing through all the joints.
Shop around as prices can vary substantially(as well as quality). If i remember bradstones retail was about £30 a metre but I got 150 sqm for 12per sqm last september.
Where abouts are you as I may be able to put you in touch with some suppliers
Nigel
Shop around as prices can vary substantially(as well as quality). If i remember bradstones retail was about £30 a metre but I got 150 sqm for 12per sqm last september.
Where abouts are you as I may be able to put you in touch with some suppliers
Nigel
just put down around 40sq metres in my garden, and it looks great.
Bought it in project packs from SELCO. Very good price as it was on sale at £175 per pack (normally £225) which covers 12 metres approx.
I used a company called "easipoint" for the grout....brilliant as they do several colours and will send you a cracking little pack of samples if you call them.
Some people use sand and cement to point....but the patio looked too good, so i used the above.
Don't forget to treat it tho as sandstone is very porous and stains easily (red wine !!!!)
Bought it in project packs from SELCO. Very good price as it was on sale at £175 per pack (normally £225) which covers 12 metres approx.
I used a company called "easipoint" for the grout....brilliant as they do several colours and will send you a cracking little pack of samples if you call them.
Some people use sand and cement to point....but the patio looked too good, so i used the above.
Don't forget to treat it tho as sandstone is very porous and stains easily (red wine !!!!)
As with anything else be sure you compare like with like.
There is cheap stuff on the market, there is expensive stuff on the market and there is expensive stuff that should be cheap.
The higher end of the market is the sawn stuff which should be in the £45-£60 per sq.mtr. Next down is the stuff that has been treated in India to be smooth under foot. Stonemarket distribute this under the "Vintage" paving name. Next down is the same stuff before they treat it, "Trustone", then there is the Marketstone which is basically the seconds grade Trustone. I herein refer to the Stonemarket range (cos that's what I know about because it's one of the big ranges we sell).
From ourselves, the price depends on how much you want at any one time. The Vintage and Trustone ranges are both "calibrated" which means they've been through a road planer to ensure a relatively uniform thickness. The Marketstone is not, and I've seen slabs vary from half an inch to two inches in the same slab!
People are always asking about what to do if you spill red wine on it, answer, chuck some water on it and carry on. Leave it and the rain will eventually do the same job.
The natural stone paving should ALWAYS be laid on a full mortar bed. If you lay it on "spots" the cement will come through in patches given time and you'll have slabs with spots on them. Don't lay them on mortar and then brush the air-activated mortars in the joints, chances are it won't work! Lay them one slab at a time with a bead of mortar between the slabs as you push them together, then remove the excess. They are laid with the narrow part of the taper to the top, the first ones used to have an arrow pointing out the top surface, they don't bother any more.
As for sealing them, (and I get asked this at least four times every Saturday morning), DON"T BOTHER!
I had a chap come onto the display last easter who had set up in business sealing paving. After several years of trying all the manufacturers sealants, he was giving up as the guarantees were as watertight as a colander. The problem is that the stone is a natural product and can vary in density over the slab, which means the sealer takes in some areas and not others, giving a tea-bag effect until the sealer wears off. I treated some of our display slabs to a sealer four years ago, we replaced the display a couple of weeks ago and only on one of the treated slabs was there any sign that they'd been treated. If you really must treat the paving (and I'd personally recommend you don't) do NOT use the Urethane or Epoxy sealers, as these sit on the surface and peel of in large flakes. Use the ones that are absorbed into the stone, and treat an un-seen area first to make sure you like the effect. And leave it for a few months before you treat the rest to make sure you like it.
Sorry to drone on a bit but I thought I'd pass on my experience.
maggit
There is cheap stuff on the market, there is expensive stuff on the market and there is expensive stuff that should be cheap.
The higher end of the market is the sawn stuff which should be in the £45-£60 per sq.mtr. Next down is the stuff that has been treated in India to be smooth under foot. Stonemarket distribute this under the "Vintage" paving name. Next down is the same stuff before they treat it, "Trustone", then there is the Marketstone which is basically the seconds grade Trustone. I herein refer to the Stonemarket range (cos that's what I know about because it's one of the big ranges we sell).
From ourselves, the price depends on how much you want at any one time. The Vintage and Trustone ranges are both "calibrated" which means they've been through a road planer to ensure a relatively uniform thickness. The Marketstone is not, and I've seen slabs vary from half an inch to two inches in the same slab!
People are always asking about what to do if you spill red wine on it, answer, chuck some water on it and carry on. Leave it and the rain will eventually do the same job.
The natural stone paving should ALWAYS be laid on a full mortar bed. If you lay it on "spots" the cement will come through in patches given time and you'll have slabs with spots on them. Don't lay them on mortar and then brush the air-activated mortars in the joints, chances are it won't work! Lay them one slab at a time with a bead of mortar between the slabs as you push them together, then remove the excess. They are laid with the narrow part of the taper to the top, the first ones used to have an arrow pointing out the top surface, they don't bother any more.
As for sealing them, (and I get asked this at least four times every Saturday morning), DON"T BOTHER!
I had a chap come onto the display last easter who had set up in business sealing paving. After several years of trying all the manufacturers sealants, he was giving up as the guarantees were as watertight as a colander. The problem is that the stone is a natural product and can vary in density over the slab, which means the sealer takes in some areas and not others, giving a tea-bag effect until the sealer wears off. I treated some of our display slabs to a sealer four years ago, we replaced the display a couple of weeks ago and only on one of the treated slabs was there any sign that they'd been treated. If you really must treat the paving (and I'd personally recommend you don't) do NOT use the Urethane or Epoxy sealers, as these sit on the surface and peel of in large flakes. Use the ones that are absorbed into the stone, and treat an un-seen area first to make sure you like the effect. And leave it for a few months before you treat the rest to make sure you like it.
Sorry to drone on a bit but I thought I'd pass on my experience.
maggit
we had sandstone put in recently
my main advice woudl be to make sure you get ones they dont have bloody big craters in them that hodl water when it rains - even if they are put down at an angle
as the stone is ntural they are not all perfectly flat and i got some slabs that retain some small puddles (though nothing major i guess
personally i think they look nicer if the rain when they are slightly shinier and you can buy products to make them shinier after they have been laid.
my main advice woudl be to make sure you get ones they dont have bloody big craters in them that hodl water when it rains - even if they are put down at an angle
as the stone is ntural they are not all perfectly flat and i got some slabs that retain some small puddles (though nothing major i guess
personally i think they look nicer if the rain when they are slightly shinier and you can buy products to make them shinier after they have been laid.
mrmaggit said:
As with anything else be sure you compare like with like.
There is cheap stuff on the market, there is expensive stuff on the market and there is expensive stuff that should be cheap.
The higher end of the market is the sawn stuff which should be in the £45-£60 per sq.mtr. Next down is the stuff that has been treated in India to be smooth under foot. Stonemarket distribute this under the "Vintage" paving name. Next down is the same stuff before they treat it, "Trustone", then there is the Marketstone which is basically the seconds grade Trustone. I herein refer to the Stonemarket range (cos that's what I know about because it's one of the big ranges we sell).
From ourselves, the price depends on how much you want at any one time. The Vintage and Trustone ranges are both "calibrated" which means they've been through a road planer to ensure a relatively uniform thickness. The Marketstone is not, and I've seen slabs vary from half an inch to two inches in the same slab!
People are always asking about what to do if you spill red wine on it, answer, chuck some water on it and carry on. Leave it and the rain will eventually do the same job.
The natural stone paving should ALWAYS be laid on a full mortar bed. If you lay it on "spots" the cement will come through in patches given time and you'll have slabs with spots on them. Don't lay them on mortar and then brush the air-activated mortars in the joints, chances are it won't work! Lay them one slab at a time with a bead of mortar between the slabs as you push them together, then remove the excess. They are laid with the narrow part of the taper to the top, the first ones used to have an arrow pointing out the top surface, they don't bother any more.
As for sealing them, (and I get asked this at least four times every Saturday morning), DON"T BOTHER!
I had a chap come onto the display last easter who had set up in business sealing paving. After several years of trying all the manufacturers sealants, he was giving up as the guarantees were as watertight as a colander. The problem is that the stone is a natural product and can vary in density over the slab, which means the sealer takes in some areas and not others, giving a tea-bag effect until the sealer wears off. I treated some of our display slabs to a sealer four years ago, we replaced the display a couple of weeks ago and only on one of the treated slabs was there any sign that they'd been treated. If you really must treat the paving (and I'd personally recommend you don't) do NOT use the Urethane or Epoxy sealers, as these sit on the surface and peel of in large flakes. Use the ones that are absorbed into the stone, and treat an un-seen area first to make sure you like the effect. And leave it for a few months before you treat the rest to make sure you like it.
Sorry to drone on a bit but I thought I'd pass on my experience.
maggit
I don't wish to distract from the ops question, but while you are here, i had a bradstone blue/black limestone path laid last year & would like to retain the black look that it aquires when wet, as it is grey blue when dry (due to normal weathering).There is cheap stuff on the market, there is expensive stuff on the market and there is expensive stuff that should be cheap.
The higher end of the market is the sawn stuff which should be in the £45-£60 per sq.mtr. Next down is the stuff that has been treated in India to be smooth under foot. Stonemarket distribute this under the "Vintage" paving name. Next down is the same stuff before they treat it, "Trustone", then there is the Marketstone which is basically the seconds grade Trustone. I herein refer to the Stonemarket range (cos that's what I know about because it's one of the big ranges we sell).
From ourselves, the price depends on how much you want at any one time. The Vintage and Trustone ranges are both "calibrated" which means they've been through a road planer to ensure a relatively uniform thickness. The Marketstone is not, and I've seen slabs vary from half an inch to two inches in the same slab!
People are always asking about what to do if you spill red wine on it, answer, chuck some water on it and carry on. Leave it and the rain will eventually do the same job.
The natural stone paving should ALWAYS be laid on a full mortar bed. If you lay it on "spots" the cement will come through in patches given time and you'll have slabs with spots on them. Don't lay them on mortar and then brush the air-activated mortars in the joints, chances are it won't work! Lay them one slab at a time with a bead of mortar between the slabs as you push them together, then remove the excess. They are laid with the narrow part of the taper to the top, the first ones used to have an arrow pointing out the top surface, they don't bother any more.
As for sealing them, (and I get asked this at least four times every Saturday morning), DON"T BOTHER!
I had a chap come onto the display last easter who had set up in business sealing paving. After several years of trying all the manufacturers sealants, he was giving up as the guarantees were as watertight as a colander. The problem is that the stone is a natural product and can vary in density over the slab, which means the sealer takes in some areas and not others, giving a tea-bag effect until the sealer wears off. I treated some of our display slabs to a sealer four years ago, we replaced the display a couple of weeks ago and only on one of the treated slabs was there any sign that they'd been treated. If you really must treat the paving (and I'd personally recommend you don't) do NOT use the Urethane or Epoxy sealers, as these sit on the surface and peel of in large flakes. Use the ones that are absorbed into the stone, and treat an un-seen area first to make sure you like the effect. And leave it for a few months before you treat the rest to make sure you like it.
Sorry to drone on a bit but I thought I'd pass on my experience.
maggit
Is there any product that you could recommend to darken the slabs?
Pointing gun? That sounds like what we need
Doing it by hand is a bugger.Indian Sandstone is nice stuff. I'm laying some in the coming weekends.
I'm only up this bloody early on a Saturday due to a delivery coming of scalping, sand and cement!
Also to add, point as you go by butting the mortar bed up to the previous slab. This way the pointing is part of the base mortar as opposed to a separate filling afterwards.
I'm only up this bloody early on a Saturday due to a delivery coming of scalping, sand and cement!
Also to add, point as you go by butting the mortar bed up to the previous slab. This way the pointing is part of the base mortar as opposed to a separate filling afterwards.
Edited by Gingerbread Man on Saturday 7th August 08:25
My builders laid ours almost exactly five years ago. At the time I thought it was overkill, but they whacked down six to eight inches of hardcore first. Then the day before each day's slabbing they poured six inches of concrete and allowed it to set. Then they laid each slab on five small points of mortar on the set concrete and pointed each up by hand.
I'm glad they took this approach now. Those slabs can easily take the weight of a JCB telehandler, and I've never had any weeding to do.
I'm glad they took this approach now. Those slabs can easily take the weight of a JCB telehandler, and I've never had any weeding to do.
TimJMS said:
My builders laid ours almost exactly five years ago. At the time I thought it was overkill, but they whacked down six to eight inches of hardcore first. Then the day before each day's slabbing they poured six inches of concrete and allowed it to set. Then they laid each slab on five small points of mortar on the set concrete and pointed each up by hand.
I'm glad they took this approach now. Those slabs can easily take the weight of a JCB telehandler, and I've never had any weeding to do.
Sounds like you've got roughly a foot base to your slabs. Must have been a lot to bring in/ take away!I'm glad they took this approach now. Those slabs can easily take the weight of a JCB telehandler, and I've never had any weeding to do.
Gingerbread Man said:
Indian Sandstone is nice stuff. I'm laying some in the coming weekends.
I'm only up this bloody early on a Saturday due to a delivery coming of scalping, sand and cement!
Also to add, point as you go by butting the mortar bed up to the previous slab. This way the pointing is part of the base mortar as opposed to a separate filling afterwards.
Glad when somebody listens. Why make your life hard when you could make it easier by doing it right in the first place.I'm only up this bloody early on a Saturday due to a delivery coming of scalping, sand and cement!
Also to add, point as you go by butting the mortar bed up to the previous slab. This way the pointing is part of the base mortar as opposed to a separate filling afterwards.
Edited by Gingerbread Man on Saturday 7th August 08:25
mrmaggit said:
Gingerbread Man said:
Indian Sandstone is nice stuff. I'm laying some in the coming weekends.
I'm only up this bloody early on a Saturday due to a delivery coming of scalping, sand and cement!
Also to add, point as you go by butting the mortar bed up to the previous slab. This way the pointing is part of the base mortar as opposed to a separate filling afterwards.
Glad when somebody listens. Why make your life hard when you could make it easier by doing it right in the first place.I'm only up this bloody early on a Saturday due to a delivery coming of scalping, sand and cement!
Also to add, point as you go by butting the mortar bed up to the previous slab. This way the pointing is part of the base mortar as opposed to a separate filling afterwards.
Edited by Gingerbread Man on Saturday 7th August 08:25
Just got the scalping in for my patio. Getting the Sandstone delivered next week, the I'll start laying.
Maybe I should open up one of those blog threads............
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