Chimney, to line or not to line, that is the question!

[satans worm]

Ok, after starting a rather unsuccesful thread about contemporary double sided wood burner stoves, and speaking to the local woodburning shop, it seems our choice is Firebelly or Firebelly.
So, our next step was to find out about the installation, the local shop said, that despite us fitting in a clay liner in our new house, we would still require a stainless inner liner and insulation.
If we do not do this we will get a build up of tar, which smells bad and you cant get rid of once it has accumulated, in fact they refuse to fit to clay liners.
So we asked the 'how much' question on a 5meter chimney and was told all in to fit, inc liner, adaptors and rain guard etc, GBP1,200, which seemd alot of money!
so, hoping a PHer in the know can clarify a couple of points:

Firstly, would that seem a reasonable quote, as I said, seemed very expensive to me (but hey, what would i know!)

Do I really need the liner if i have a new clay liner, it would be used for wood burning only and not all that often, we have underfloor heating and so used only for a 'cosy' saturday or somthing.

Help appreciated

[Timmy35]

My view ( and I am happy to be proven wrong ) would be that you can buy a flexible metal flue for £40 a metre, so that's about £200.

If you can get up on your roof ( or get a cheap local builder to go up there ), drop a rope with a knot in it down your chimney, attach the liner, pull it up, fix to your chimney pot. At the other end fit a steel register plate around the flue ( seal with some fire rope ) and attach the flue to your wood burner.

Should all be do-able for about £400.

[satans worm]

Timmy35 said:

My view ( and I am happy to be proven wrong ) would be that you can buy a flexible metal flue for £40 a metre, so that's about £200.

If you can get up on your roof ( or get a cheap local builder to go up there ), drop a rope with a knot in it down your chimney, attach the liner, pull it up, fix to your chimney pot. At the other end fit a steel register plate around the flue ( seal with some fire rope ) and attach the flue to your wood burner.

Should all be do-able for about £400.

I thought so too, but I beleive I need it registered by a HETAS engineer for a certificate, so I guess I'm 'over a barrel'.
Still, they must be doing something for the extra 800quid ??

[Timmy35]

satans worm said:

Timmy35 said:

My view ( and I am happy to be proven wrong ) would be that you can buy a flexible metal flue for £40 a metre, so that's about £200.

If you can get up on your roof ( or get a cheap local builder to go up there ), drop a rope with a knot in it down your chimney, attach the liner, pull it up, fix to your chimney pot. At the other end fit a steel register plate around the flue ( seal with some fire rope ) and attach the flue to your wood burner.

Should all be do-able for about £400.

I thought so too, but I beleive I need it registered by a HETAS engineer for a certificate, so I guess I'm 'over a barrel'.
Still, they must be doing something for the extra 800quid ??

No it doesn't. If it's not installed by a HETAS though it will need to be inspected by your local coucils buildings control department who will approve the installation.

[FlossyThePig]

Don't forget to factor in H&S - You will need scaffolding.

[Sandy0728]

Hi,
Been lurking (dreaming) here for a while and decided to join up just to answer this topic!

Having just gone the DIY route of flue lining here's my summary;

My situation:
Existing brick chimney that we'd been using with the original 60's open hearth. On renovating the room we found that the brick work left a lot to be desired.

Solution:
Lined the flue with 316 stainless flexi liner c/w solid insulation round the outside.

As I did it my self I was on the roof (via the velux window) in snow mid Feb this year. Luckily I've got access to various bits of climbing gear so I was secured to the roof through said Velux!
Getting the flue up a 12 metre chimney was easy with a mate pushing from the bottom.
We found the putting the insulation on from the top was a lot easier than pushing it up from the bottom.

A clever chimney cowl on the existing pot sorted the hanging of the liner out.
A bought register plate with a DIY bracket for the bottom of the flue and some fire paste/rope/sealant finished the bottom off.

We had a new multi fuel stove and an existing hearth to finish the flue off.

Our building inspector had a 5 minute look at it before the register plate was fastened shut, this was more expensive than I thought as they base the price on a 'pro' doing the job. I'd put a cost in at my time plus materials and they still said it was far too cheap so told me what to put on the form!

I think I got the flue from fluefactory.com which seemed to be the cheapest but they did take 2.5 weeks to deliver.
Total cost of materials = £800-1000 for a 3 storey terrace.
I got 'extra' materials and probably have enough flue & insulation left to line a 1 storey flue!!
Better too much than not enough.

Building control was £380 ish, but this was combined with other work.

Hope this helps.

Sandy.

PS: remember to check which ways up on the flue before installing it!!! I forgot to check before we commenced the installation but decided to wait till it appeared out of the top - luckily it was the right way!!

[Timmy35]

Sandy can you break that down? Does your £800 include the stove as well?

[Sandy0728]

That was a guess but a quick trawl though my e-mails gives the following;

1 x Fire Cement - Black - 2Kg @ £4.40 = £4.40
1 x Envirograf - Clear - 310ml @ £9.99 = £9.99
1 x Heat Seal - Black - 310ml @ £9.99 = £9.99
1 x 10m x150mm (6 inch) Multi Fuel Flexible Flue L @ £220.00 = £220.00
1 x MF Installation Pack No. 12 @ £68.22 = £68.22
10 x Rockwool Insulation Tubes 150mm @ £17.10 = £171.00
1 x Aluminium Tape @ £3.59 = £3.59
Subtotal : £487.19
Delivery : £0.00
VAT @15% : £73.13
Total : £560.32
1 x Free Offers
- Stove Pipe Door Upgrade: Yes (+£26.09)
- Register Plate: x1
- Pipe Length: 500mm
- Heat Resistant Gloves: x1
- Free Delivery: Yes freepipe
£30.00
1 x Firefox 5 Multifuel / Woodburning Stove
- Woodburning Kit: No
- Flue Size: 5'' Ref: 3143
£360.00

So its actually £950 for the parts!! Eeek.
Stove was from stoves are us, quick delivery and well packed.
HTH.

[Timmy35]

Sandy0728 said:

That was a guess but a quick trawl though my e-mails gives the following;

1 x Fire Cement - Black - 2Kg @ £4.40 = £4.40
1 x Envirograf - Clear - 310ml @ £9.99 = £9.99
1 x Heat Seal - Black - 310ml @ £9.99 = £9.99
1 x 10m x150mm (6 inch) Multi Fuel Flexible Flue L @ £220.00 = £220.00
1 x MF Installation Pack No. 12 @ £68.22 = £68.22
10 x Rockwool Insulation Tubes 150mm @ £17.10 = £171.00
1 x Aluminium Tape @ £3.59 = £3.59
Subtotal : £487.19
Delivery : £0.00
VAT @15% : £73.13
Total : £560.32
1 x Free Offers
- Stove Pipe Door Upgrade: Yes (+£26.09)
- Register Plate: x1
- Pipe Length: 500mm
- Heat Resistant Gloves: x1
- Free Delivery: Yes freepipe
£30.00
1 x Firefox 5 Multifuel / Woodburning Stove
- Woodburning Kit: No
- Flue Size: 5'' Ref: 3143
£360.00

So its actually £950 for the parts!! Eeek.
Stove was from stoves are us, quick delivery and well packed.
HTH.

Thanks Sandy I'd say that's a pretty comprehensive list to work from.

[schmokin1]

be aware that you should be using a six inch flue with adapter if your stove has a five inch outlet, or you won't conform to the relevant regs. Also, the very comprehensive accoount above is with rockwool tube insulation. you can back fill from above with silvaperl which is vermiculite, quite a bit cheaper but more messy. The pro's I have seen at work pull the liner down the chimney rather than feed it up, and some suppliers wil rent/lend you the alloy cone to fit on the end of the liner to help its path.

There are a couple of excellent DIY guides online, eg stovesonline's

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/lining_a_chimney.htm...

good luck
schmo

[dfen5]

schmokin1 said:

be aware that you should be using a six inch flue with adapter if your stove has a five inch outlet, or you won't conform to the relevant regs.

Hmm..

Not so sure, tho' I'm no expert. The idea of the flue size matching the stove is to ensure it has good draw and exhaust speed. Switcing from a 5" to a 6" will slow the exhaust gasses and cause turbulence, leading to gas cooling and condensation, the last thing you want.

Do you have a link or a cut and paste of the bit to which you refer?

[satans worm]

Interestingly, it seems as we have not actual signed our new build off, we do not need to pay any additional fee for the building inspector to sign off on the log burner

Also, he advised he has been using a logburner with a clay liner for 15 years with no issues, so I might go down the route of connecting directly to the clay liner....

(Also, if it makes any difference, the clay liner is 10 inches diameter, i take it this is standard?)

[mosstrooper]

I've had a wood burner with clay lined chimney for nearly thirty years. I mostly burn softwood, but all the firewood has been well split and air-dried for at least two years.

Chimney has been swept twice a year by dragging a ball of wire-netting up, and then down a few times.

Have had a few chimney fires over the years but they have all been bought under control quickly by closing off the air vent. An exception was once when it started burning near the top and was able to draw air from the outside. The flame coming out looked a bit like a bunsen-burner ! Called the boys out and they extinguished it within a few minutes (Thanks Bob, Eric, Brian, Raymond, Bill, Ian and all.)

Anyway, a couple of years ago I realised the tar deposits were becoming increasingly thick and I decided to have a liner fitted.

I now sleep more soundly..........

[schmokin1]

dfen5 said:

schmokin1 said:

be aware that you should be using a six inch flue with adapter if your stove has a five inch outlet, or you won't conform to the relevant regs.

Hmm..

Not so sure, tho' I'm no expert. The idea of the flue size matching the stove is to ensure it has good draw and exhaust speed. Switcing from a 5" to a 6" will slow the exhaust gasses and cause turbulence, leading to gas cooling and condensation, the last thing you want.

Do you have a link or a cut and paste of the bit to which you refer?

i did my research into this a few years back before deciding to use my existing chimney rather than line as it's in good nick. ISTR the HETAS site states they won't use 5 inch liner as it doesn't conform, but you will need to go through the relevant building regs doc (easy to find online and, most unusually for a government publication, well set out) to find the reference. Quite possibly stovesonline will have a bit on it too, it's a very comprehensive resource.

regards
schmo

[Chrisgr31]

The problem is that once you realise you need the chimney lined its too late! Well thats not quite right as you can still line the chimney but the problem is the tar will leach out of the brickwork above the stove for years and ruin your decorating!

So far better to install the liner on Day 1!