Solar panals and feed in Tariff.
Discussion
My cousin in Wales (where it always rains) bought a roof-full of solar panels last year and is getting a remarkable income from them. OK it's false as it's a Government wheeze, but the deal is guaranteed for quite a few years regardless of Government.
Can get you more info if you like.
Can get you more info if you like.
Simpo Two said:
My cousin in Wales (where it always rains) bought a roof-full of solar panels last year and is getting a remarkable income from them. OK it's false as it's a Government wheeze, but the deal is guaranteed for quite a few years regardless of Government.
Can get you more info if you like.
Yes please. Interested in knowing more about this stuff.Can get you more info if you like.
From what I had read previously, they wouldn't really give any sensible payback before the feed in tariff.
There is a 'white elephant' in this and also home wind generators:
They show you how much it costs and the payback period being 8 or 10 years or whatever, and how much you will 'make' over the following 15 years.
All very nice and green and even a good business plan.
If you read between the lines and the small print, all of these forecasts are based on the current rate of government subsidised electricity back into the system. Which is currently 40 odd pence.
Is the government still going to be paying Joe Public five times over the market rate per unit for electricity in 15, 20, 25 years time?
I think not. And if I'm right, then the payback period means that your gear now is going to have to run without fail for about 20 years.
You'd make more money in an ISA by quite a long way.
They show you how much it costs and the payback period being 8 or 10 years or whatever, and how much you will 'make' over the following 15 years.
All very nice and green and even a good business plan.
If you read between the lines and the small print, all of these forecasts are based on the current rate of government subsidised electricity back into the system. Which is currently 40 odd pence.
Is the government still going to be paying Joe Public five times over the market rate per unit for electricity in 15, 20, 25 years time?
I think not. And if I'm right, then the payback period means that your gear now is going to have to run without fail for about 20 years.
You'd make more money in an ISA by quite a long way.
Been looking for a bit.
I gather the 41.3p/unit is guarenteed for 25 years + RPI uplift each year, and that rate islimited to 5k units per annum.That is why they dont try to sell you enough to fill a field.You dont get paid that rate for generation over the maximum.
What I need to know is ,has anyone recieved payments yet.It all kicked off in April so someone must have.There is a special meter that tells you how much you have generated apparantly.
The returns quoted are at least 9% of the investment per annum, which is good,possibly alot more.
Only issue is will they last 25 years without servicing/replacement.I gather that some systems are warrented for around 6 years by the manufacturer and that there is a big difference in the standard of the fitting by suppliers and the quality of system they quote on.I suppose going for a well known brand and U pay for what you get ring true here.
It is all very difficult to assess as it is all such a new thing and there are no statistics.To me its all guess work at the moment.
I gather the 41.3p/unit is guarenteed for 25 years + RPI uplift each year, and that rate islimited to 5k units per annum.That is why they dont try to sell you enough to fill a field.You dont get paid that rate for generation over the maximum.
What I need to know is ,has anyone recieved payments yet.It all kicked off in April so someone must have.There is a special meter that tells you how much you have generated apparantly.
The returns quoted are at least 9% of the investment per annum, which is good,possibly alot more.
Only issue is will they last 25 years without servicing/replacement.I gather that some systems are warrented for around 6 years by the manufacturer and that there is a big difference in the standard of the fitting by suppliers and the quality of system they quote on.I suppose going for a well known brand and U pay for what you get ring true here.
It is all very difficult to assess as it is all such a new thing and there are no statistics.To me its all guess work at the moment.
The quality of the install is the big issue for me, considering the state of some replacement PVC-u windows I have seen.
I'm having an initial report done at the mo to consider if it's economically viable. I suspect that the report will say that it is, regardless of the facts.
We will see.
If nothing else, I should get a better insight into how it all works.
I'm having an initial report done at the mo to consider if it's economically viable. I suspect that the report will say that it is, regardless of the facts.
We will see.
If nothing else, I should get a better insight into how it all works.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-so...
The government will pay £800 per year to you so over 25 years its £23k to have something that cost £12.5k.
Assuming the government dont resind this offer.
Or contact Isis and they will fit them free and then they take the £800 instead of you.
The government will pay £800 per year to you so over 25 years its £23k to have something that cost £12.5k.
Assuming the government dont resind this offer.
Or contact Isis and they will fit them free and then they take the £800 instead of you.
andy c said:
I gather the 41.3p/unit is guarenteed for 25 years + RPI uplift each year...
Only issue is will they last 25 years without servicing/replacement....
If you take out the emotional greenness of it, looking at it from a business perspective solely, either of these would be major risks in going forward.Only issue is will they last 25 years without servicing/replacement....
The problem is that if either of those things don't continue for 25 years, then the project struggles to break even. If both, then you will have made a loss.
And I must be honest, if you installed a wind generator that didn't need servicing or replacement for 25 years, and the govt still forked out a silly rate to feed in in 25 years time, I would eat my hat.
JustinP1 said:
andy c said:
I gather the 41.3p/unit is guarenteed for 25 years + RPI uplift each year...
Only issue is will they last 25 years without servicing/replacement....
If you take out the emotional greenness of it, looking at it from a business perspective solely, either of these would be major risks in going forward.Only issue is will they last 25 years without servicing/replacement....
The problem is that if either of those things don't continue for 25 years, then the project struggles to break even. If both, then you will have made a loss.
And I must be honest, if you installed a wind generator that didn't need servicing or replacement for 25 years, and the govt still forked out a silly rate to feed in in 25 years time, I would eat my hat.
1: It isn't a white elephant.
2: So long as you sign up before April 2012 you will received 41.3p on every unit your system produces each year
3: It is valid for 25 years and set in stone.
4: Any excess electricity can be sold back to the electric company for a minimum of 3p (giving you 44p for that unit of electric)
5: The Feed in Tariff is index linked meaning it will go up with inflation so it will be "worth" 41.3p in future money
6: It isn't costing the government as the energy company's have to pay this themselves and have to offer it if they have over 40,000 customers
7: The running of the scheme has been passed over to an independent setup meaning the government now have no say in the scheme and CANNOT change it.
8: It is the safest risk free investment on the market giving minimum returns of 7+%
The free solar panel companys are a good idea but do a lot of investigation first to see if they are right for you. there is a reason why investment comapnys have set these up and ploughed £200-300 million inbto each one - it's because its a guaranteed return.
think about when you use your electric.... if you rent your roof out then you need there permisison to sell your property and any potential buyer has to agree to continue with the scheme.
They take the feed it tariff payemnt and you benefit from the electricity it produces. HOWEVER, if you are at work all day then it will power your fridge, freezer alrm clock easily and the excess will get sold back which they benefit from - not you. When you get home from work you have a couple of hours sunlight left then they stop working just as your consumption starts increasing......
Pv panels will save/earn you the best part of £1000-£1200 a year for a standard sized system whereas you will benefit probably a max of £200 with a free system which when combined with all teh restrictions doesnt make it worth it.
best off getting a cheap loan or adding it to your mortgage and receive all of the benefits without the drawbacks.
If anyone wants a quote and factual figures PM your details
Andy
Edited by Herbs on Friday 24th September 15:06
Edited by Herbs on Friday 24th September 15:07
nope because the tax payer isn't paying for it....
Apart from the fact it is the energy companies which are having to fund it, the previous government signed us up to a very agressive EU agreement where if you fail to reduce your carbon emissions to a certain amount and increase the amount of energy produced by renewable sources to a agreed percent then the fines that are applied are massive......
It's by far the lesser of 2 evils and at least it is being green as well as the end user saving money as well - it's a no brainer imo.
Apart from the fact it is the energy companies which are having to fund it, the previous government signed us up to a very agressive EU agreement where if you fail to reduce your carbon emissions to a certain amount and increase the amount of energy produced by renewable sources to a agreed percent then the fines that are applied are massive......
It's by far the lesser of 2 evils and at least it is being green as well as the end user saving money as well - it's a no brainer imo.
Herbs said:
nope because the tax payer isn't paying for it....
Apart from the fact it is the energy companies which are having to fund it, the previous government signed us up to a very agressive EU agreement where if you fail to reduce your carbon emissions to a certain amount and increase the amount of energy produced by renewable sources to a agreed percent then the fines that are applied are massive......
It's by far the lesser of 2 evils and at least it is being green as well as the end user saving money as well - it's a no brainer imo.
But take the long view. The energy companies - where do they get their money from? The utility bill payer.Apart from the fact it is the energy companies which are having to fund it, the previous government signed us up to a very agressive EU agreement where if you fail to reduce your carbon emissions to a certain amount and increase the amount of energy produced by renewable sources to a agreed percent then the fines that are applied are massive......
It's by far the lesser of 2 evils and at least it is being green as well as the end user saving money as well - it's a no brainer imo.
And when our Government fines them for breaching some fantasy world-saving games, where does that money come from? The utility bill payer.
I'm happy to believe that it's a sound 7% ROCE but it's all just an artificial money merry-go round fuelled by half-baked green politics, and paid for by us. A lucky few have the wits to cash in - for example you, and those who sign up.
The long view is that it is a drop in the ocean for the energy companies.... coupled with the ever incraesing costs trying to extract gas and oil - look up how much BP has spent/lost over from that one accident recently.
yes you are right, but without renewables - solar or otherwise then energy bills are only ever going to rise. At least with renewables that rise is going to be less.
yes you are right, but without renewables - solar or otherwise then energy bills are only ever going to rise. At least with renewables that rise is going to be less.
Simpo Two said:
Herbs said:
At least with renewables that rise is going to be less.
I thought energy from renewables was the most expensive, and subsidised by fossil fuels.Agreed that it can't last for ever. We need nuclear fusion!
Simpo Two said:
Herbs said:
At least with renewables that rise is going to be less.
I thought energy from renewables was the most expensive, and subsidised by fossil fuels.Agreed that it can't last for ever. We need nuclear fusion!
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