loft extension problems help.... building inspection failing
Discussion
Hi All,
Long story short loft extention built, to what appears to be good standards with several building inspection visits that passed. Building company has now decided to walk away from the job with out finnishing, the reason I'm told is that they do not want to loose any more money on the job, given that its a fixed Price contract I can't really see how thats my fault! Anyway
There are only a few things to tidy up, most of which I can arrange myself, one of these items is finally building inspection signoff by the council inspectors.
They picked up on a number of minor issues that can be resolved. However the major one is that I apparently do not have enough ceiling height down my new set of stairs. I'm 6ft4" I can walk down without banging my head or stooping, the problem seems to be we have 2m+ up the stairs apart from a single point on the 3rd to last step where we loose height due to a steel structural beam, we are 5 cm short. This bean can't be moved as its structural and any movement would inturn change the height of the existing outside roof
Now I fully understand that building regs are there for a reason. I would image to gain that 5cm's is going to be £30K+ work to pull the loft extention apart
Has anyone been in a similar situation or got any advice, surely there must be some way of appealing on any negative decision made ?
Thanks
Michael
Long story short loft extention built, to what appears to be good standards with several building inspection visits that passed. Building company has now decided to walk away from the job with out finnishing, the reason I'm told is that they do not want to loose any more money on the job, given that its a fixed Price contract I can't really see how thats my fault! Anyway
There are only a few things to tidy up, most of which I can arrange myself, one of these items is finally building inspection signoff by the council inspectors.
They picked up on a number of minor issues that can be resolved. However the major one is that I apparently do not have enough ceiling height down my new set of stairs. I'm 6ft4" I can walk down without banging my head or stooping, the problem seems to be we have 2m+ up the stairs apart from a single point on the 3rd to last step where we loose height due to a steel structural beam, we are 5 cm short. This bean can't be moved as its structural and any movement would inturn change the height of the existing outside roof
Now I fully understand that building regs are there for a reason. I would image to gain that 5cm's is going to be £30K+ work to pull the loft extention apart
Has anyone been in a similar situation or got any advice, surely there must be some way of appealing on any negative decision made ?
Thanks
Michael
Not sure about the building regs bit. But if its a fixed price contract the builder is in breach of contract if he has failed to completre the work.
I would speak to a solicitor as much of this including alterations depends on your contract with the builder and the size of his company.
Did the contarct give a spec? Did that specify built to Building Regs Compliance? What warranties do you have in place with the builder?. was it the builder who priced the job?
My guess is that you dont have a formal contract that covers all this (not uncommon for home jobs) and this piuts you in a weak position
I would speak to a solicitor as much of this including alterations depends on your contract with the builder and the size of his company.
Did the contarct give a spec? Did that specify built to Building Regs Compliance? What warranties do you have in place with the builder?. was it the builder who priced the job?
My guess is that you dont have a formal contract that covers all this (not uncommon for home jobs) and this piuts you in a weak position
You need 2m from the line of the pitch of the centreline of the stairs to the u/s of any obstruction.
Is the beam restricting the headroom over the whole of the staircase width ?
Have they boxed the beam in as tight as possible , it may be that recladding the beam, or painting it with intumescent paint instead will get you a large piece of the 50mm you need .
edit .
Just a thought ...........
Is the beam only supporting the roof structure , if so it does not require fire protection , then you could just get it passed unclad then tidy it up later ?
Is the beam restricting the headroom over the whole of the staircase width ?
Have they boxed the beam in as tight as possible , it may be that recladding the beam, or painting it with intumescent paint instead will get you a large piece of the 50mm you need .
edit .
Just a thought ...........
Is the beam only supporting the roof structure , if so it does not require fire protection , then you could just get it passed unclad then tidy it up later ?
Edited by Busamav on Monday 27th September 14:23
Busamav said:
You need 2m from the line of the pitch of the centreline of the stairs to the u/s of any obstruction.
Is the beam restricting the headroom over the whole of the staircase width ?
Have they boxed the beam in as tight as possible , it may be that recladding the beam, or painting it with intumescent paint instead will get you a large piece of the 50mm you need .
edit .
Just a thought ...........
Is the beam only supporting the roof structure , if so it does not require fire protection , then you could just get it passed unclad then tidy it up later ?
The beam restricts the height over the entire width at a single point, however the bottom of the stairs curve 90 degress, so I would have thought this changes the pitch ?Is the beam restricting the headroom over the whole of the staircase width ?
Have they boxed the beam in as tight as possible , it may be that recladding the beam, or painting it with intumescent paint instead will get you a large piece of the 50mm you need .
edit .
Just a thought ...........
Is the beam only supporting the roof structure , if so it does not require fire protection , then you could just get it passed unclad then tidy it up later ?
Edited by Busamav on Monday 27th September 14:23
The beam is boxed in as tight as I think possible. I'm not sure how much head height we would gain from unboxing.
Are building inspectors able to make judgement calls on these things ?
So the beam runs perpendicular to the stairs? I think Busamav was hoping that maybe it ran along the same line as the stairs, as it could be possible to work around at that point.
Just to reiterate you currently have 2m+ everywhere apart from a point where it reduces to 1.95m? It might be worth mentioning that if headroom is restricted then 1.9 to the centre is allowable with 1.8 absolute minimum.. but of course they're then looking for 2m at the other side of the centre.. Whilst you don't have that, you have more on the other side. Of course I'm sure the Building Control inspector will be aware of this..
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professio...
Part K.... Page 7.
You could argue (politely of course!) that you satisfy this..
"For loft conversions where there is not enough space to achieve this height, the headroom will be satisfactory if the height measured at the centre of the stair width is 1.9m reducing to 1.8m at the side of the stairs."
Although from the diagram they are looking to get more than 1.9 at the other side, but you have that, but probably closer to the 2m... and it's along the length not across the width.. but the measurement on the "other side" isn't mentioned at all, so you do actually (technically) meet that requirement...
Just to reiterate you currently have 2m+ everywhere apart from a point where it reduces to 1.95m? It might be worth mentioning that if headroom is restricted then 1.9 to the centre is allowable with 1.8 absolute minimum.. but of course they're then looking for 2m at the other side of the centre.. Whilst you don't have that, you have more on the other side. Of course I'm sure the Building Control inspector will be aware of this..
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professio...
Part K.... Page 7.
You could argue (politely of course!) that you satisfy this..
"For loft conversions where there is not enough space to achieve this height, the headroom will be satisfactory if the height measured at the centre of the stair width is 1.9m reducing to 1.8m at the side of the stairs."
Although from the diagram they are looking to get more than 1.9 at the other side, but you have that, but probably closer to the 2m... and it's along the length not across the width.. but the measurement on the "other side" isn't mentioned at all, so you do actually (technically) meet that requirement...
I've found our local BCO to be a reasonable chap.
What about just telling him the situation and asking if there is anything they can suggest? They may well choose to let it slide and there might be better chance of this if you are honest rather than just hope they don't spot it.
This has certainly worked for me recently with a small issue regarding my manholes isn't quite up to regs but they are letting it slide as I rang as soon as the issue arose and explained the genuine reasons behind it.
What about just telling him the situation and asking if there is anything they can suggest? They may well choose to let it slide and there might be better chance of this if you are honest rather than just hope they don't spot it.
This has certainly worked for me recently with a small issue regarding my manholes isn't quite up to regs but they are letting it slide as I rang as soon as the issue arose and explained the genuine reasons behind it.
I'd get the BI back on site, tell him you've exhausted every possible avenue to resolve this issue and can he make any suggestions as to what he'd be happy with. Most are quite helpfull, they love to have the last word on matters. At the end of the day he will want to help you get over this without to much grief & expence.
I'd also be thinking about getting in touch with the builder.
I'd also be thinking about getting in touch with the builder.
Thanks all.
I have reameasured, from the center of the stairs taking the pitch as the line from the top step I have just under 190cm, taking the pitch from the two steps above the beam gives me more as they are on a turn.
I guess I will just have to politely argue my case when the building inspectors return
I have reameasured, from the center of the stairs taking the pitch as the line from the top step I have just under 190cm, taking the pitch from the two steps above the beam gives me more as they are on a turn.
I guess I will just have to politely argue my case when the building inspectors return
michael_JCWS said:
Thanks all.
I have reameasured, from the center of the stairs taking the pitch as the line from the top step I have just under 190cm, taking the pitch from the two steps above the beam gives me more as they are on a turn.
I guess I will just have to politely argue my case when the building inspectors return
Just rememebr the line is vertical from the pitch , good luck I have reameasured, from the center of the stairs taking the pitch as the line from the top step I have just under 190cm, taking the pitch from the two steps above the beam gives me more as they are on a turn.
I guess I will just have to politely argue my case when the building inspectors return
You didn't mention why the builders can just walk away from a fixed price contract.
michael_JCWS said:
Now I fully understand that building regs are there for a reason. I would image to gain that 5cm's is going to be £30K+ work to pull the loft extention apart
If the worst comes to the worst it's unlikely to be that bad. How big is the beam? If it's say a 254 then you can comfortably notch out around the stairs and weld in 20mm thick plates.JR said:
You didn't mention why the builders can just walk away from a fixed price contract.
I'm waiting for a written response as to why the jump shipped, unofficial its because thier costs exceded the estimate due to a number of self inflicted problems, generally very poor project management and procurement, one example being thier PM spending 1 day trying to source a radiator and eventually spending £300 on it, when he could have got the same in homebase for £100. I did suggest he took it back and buy the one from HB, but he didn'tmichael_JCWS said:
Now I fully understand that building regs are there for a reason. I would image to gain that 5cm's is going to be £30K+ work to pull the loft extention apart
If the worst comes to the worst it's unlikely to be that bad. How big is the beam? If it's say a 254 then you can comfortably notch out around the stairs and weld in 20mm thick plates.1900 to the middle of the stairs is normally allowed ,not wanted but allowed .
BI are most helpfull if you are nice to them
i do lofts for aliving so have heard of these probs before,
talk to the builders ,dont let them walk away
.
when the stairs was fitted was there not a inspection
why was it left to completion to find there was a pob
what other probs do you have you can email me if you wish i may be able to help advise or what ever
terry.
BI are most helpfull if you are nice to them
i do lofts for aliving so have heard of these probs before,
talk to the builders ,dont let them walk away
.
when the stairs was fitted was there not a inspection
why was it left to completion to find there was a pob
what other probs do you have you can email me if you wish i may be able to help advise or what ever
terry.
I am hearing this a lot at the moment. Builders cutting their costs close to the bone to get the work, then asking for more money.
Sounds like they are struggling.
If they are fitting radiators then they must be nearly finished.
I would make a list of what needs to be finished and then get them to price it.
With regards to the ceiling height, we've always been allowed to get away with 1.9m when there is no other alternative. Perhaps the Building Inspector is concerned that the height isn't consistent throughout.
Whatever the case, there will be a cost effective way of dealing with it.
Asking the Building Inspector to help in suggesting a solution is a good idea.
Sounds like they are struggling.
If they are fitting radiators then they must be nearly finished.
I would make a list of what needs to be finished and then get them to price it.
With regards to the ceiling height, we've always been allowed to get away with 1.9m when there is no other alternative. Perhaps the Building Inspector is concerned that the height isn't consistent throughout.
Whatever the case, there will be a cost effective way of dealing with it.
Asking the Building Inspector to help in suggesting a solution is a good idea.
Remove the stair carpet for a (very) small saving!
I'd agree with everyone here who said to ask the BI for advice. They aren't the enemy, and would no doubt be pleased to give an opinion.
Not sure you'd get more than a lot of stress from the builder, but I guess it's worth a final plea. Maybe you can compromise on the costs of putting things right, assuming he truly is in a financial mess. He'll also be better qualified to discuss options with the BI.
Hope it turns out well for you.
I'd agree with everyone here who said to ask the BI for advice. They aren't the enemy, and would no doubt be pleased to give an opinion.
Not sure you'd get more than a lot of stress from the builder, but I guess it's worth a final plea. Maybe you can compromise on the costs of putting things right, assuming he truly is in a financial mess. He'll also be better qualified to discuss options with the BI.
Hope it turns out well for you.
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