Calling Double Glazing installers

[Easy_Targa]

Little help if you don't mind.
I'm a GP chartered surveyor and a client has asked me to comment upon this damage to his upper window reveals that happened about 6 months after the new windows were fitted.
Smae cracks above each window and the door out to the balcony.
Its a 1991 built flat with cavity walls.
Any ideas?

[Slagathore]

New windows were slightly bigger and forced in the gap, so are pushing up on the plaserboard and caused it to crack?

I really have no idea, but this could be a fun game.

[Easy_Targa]

I should have said that it is a plaster reveal and not plasterboard.
Its about 3-5 mm thick. I looked down the gap toward the frame but could not see any frame fixings, silicon, expanding foam etc.

[Piersman2]

Slagathore said:

New windows were slightly bigger and forced in the gap, so are pushing up on the plaserboard and caused it to crack?

I really have no idea, but this could be a fun game.

Sounds and looks like that tome too.

They've measured the window height too tight and managed to force them in. The frames have expanded when hot and somehow managed to move the plaster up at the window. What's strange is that I would expect the window frames to be fitting in under a decent lintel which you would expect would prevent the plaster from physically moving to THAT extent unless there's something funny going on with how the plaster has been affixed to the linetl and frame.

Strange, could imagine how a little crack might form, but that is a big movement of plaster!

[Easy_Targa]

Thanks for that.
Do you think that the filler strip (just visible between the frame and the plaster) might have played a part? If it is held with silicon to the frame and the frame expands up could it push the plaster up do you think? or would it just deform under the pressure?

The funny thing is that the same problem can be found above the kitchen window as well as both the bedrooms and the door to the balcony (the rec room pictured above is the worst though). Could the installer have measured them all wrong?

[Handie Andy]

The window frame being too big could be the case but the frame is pushed in flush to the plaster when fitted. Also if the frame is too big and forced in this would cause the sash to stick when opening it wouldn't it?. Is this the case?.

Fixings are usually put in the sides of the frames or they did atleast when i was fitting them, thats if the fixings have been used a company i worked for used cleats(sp?).

I would suggest taking the trim off the top on the outside and see if you can see in.

I would not imagine the strip has anything to do with it, it would just be held there with silicon.

Edited by Handie Andy on Saturday 6th November 15:52

[Simpo Two]

A similar thing has happened above my neighbour's front door, where the plaster has come away from the lintel following disturbance. Assuming that all movement is now over, I'd be tempted to remove all the lose plaster, redo it and repaint.

Edited by Simpo Two on Saturday 6th November 23:27

[blackcab]

The new window does not have enough fittings and is leaning forward perhaps - can you put a spirit level on the window to check? if the new window was heavier than the old then the lower sill may have collapsed or moved - this happened to us on a bay window after the bay support rotted

[Spudler]

Nothing to do with the window being to big or not enough fixings.
Its simply a case of the plaster over the head would have been applied on a fairly smooth surface and needs little encouragement to dislodge, hence when the old frame was taken out, bearing in mind it would have been plastered up to, it broke the bond between plaster and lintel/head.

[Slagathore]

I don't think the people installing the windows would have left them like that in the picture?

The impression I got from the original post was that the client had these windows fitted, and these cracks have now appeared. He has then got the OP in to find out why they have cracked, I'm guessing so he can then make the installers pay for the making good of all the windows they changed.

If those cracks happened whilst they were being installed, I can't imagine they would just leave them like that and not try and tidy it up.

[Spudler]

Slagathore said:

I don't think the people installing the windows would have left them like that in the picture?

The impression I got from the original post was that the client had these windows fitted, and these cracks have now appeared. He has then got the OP in to find out why they have cracked, I'm guessing so he can then make the installers pay for the making good of all the windows they changed.

If those cracks happened whilst they were being installed, I can't imagine they would just leave them like that and not try and tidy it up.

I should have added that the plaster dosen't allways drop straight away. Quite often the plaster will have broke its bond with the lintel and appear fine, but will sound hollow to the touch.
Come across this more times than i care to remember, usually (if carefull) it can be got over by 45 or 65mm trim but more often than not it will be a labourer that takes the windows out and they're not the most gentel of workers.
Small windows is usually fine but the bigger they get the more likely it will happen.

[Slagathore]

Spudler said:

Slagathore said:

I don't think the people installing the windows would have left them like that in the picture?

The impression I got from the original post was that the client had these windows fitted, and these cracks have now appeared. He has then got the OP in to find out why they have cracked, I'm guessing so he can then make the installers pay for the making good of all the windows they changed.

If those cracks happened whilst they were being installed, I can't imagine they would just leave them like that and not try and tidy it up.

I should have added that the plaster dosen't allways drop straight away. Quite often the plaster will have broke its bond with the lintel and appear fine, but will sound hollow to the touch.
Come across this more times than i care to remember, usually (if carefull) it can be got over by 45 or 65mm trim but more often than not it will be a labourer that takes the windows out and they're not the most gentel of workers.
Small windows is usually fine but the bigger they get the more likely it will happen.

Ahh, I see.

I was gunna say, if the fitter left them like that, I'd be shocked!

[Easy_Targa]

The damage did not happen immediately, rather over a period of months. Maybe a combination of a tight fit, poor plaster and expansion?
So just hack off, plenty of Unibond then replaster?

[andy43]

Easy_Targa said:

I should have said that it is a plaster reveal and not plasterboard.
Its about 3-5 mm thick. I looked down the gap toward the frame but could not see any frame fixings, silicon, expanding foam etc.

This. Open the window and if there's no visible screw heads going up into the lintel, constant slamming shut will just dislodge the plaster over time as the frame flexes.

[Spudler]

The trick is to run a blade between the plaster and frame to isolate any contact between the two.
Its not very often the frame will just slide out without no effort, there's alot heaving/shoving and twisting to get some frames out, so if there's any contact with the plaster the weaker side (plaster on smooth surface) is going to give.

[badboyburt]

Sorry to see this, was the Co involved reqistered with FENSA ? If the Co cannot/will not return to rectify within their guarantee period I would contact FENSA.

http://www.fensa.co.uk/