Planning - Change of use from business to residential
Discussion
Currently work at in an inner city GP surgery (old church hall type building) with quite a bit of parking and some semi-derelict land around it (probably owned by the council or what passes for the council housing organisation these days) and I'm wondering how I should approach changing its use from a doctors surgery to residential use.
Essentially all I want is setting the principal or the permission to change it into homes, but if I can get a reasonably good application in, with permission for 3 townhouses (cashflow wise the best option if I was to selfbuild) or 6-9 flats, without the need to reapply again I'd be delighted.
The planning portal does not seem to be clear about what application form to use, should I use "Outline Planning Permission" application form or another one. Any advice or knowledge gratefully received on this one.
Essentially all I want is setting the principal or the permission to change it into homes, but if I can get a reasonably good application in, with permission for 3 townhouses (cashflow wise the best option if I was to selfbuild) or 6-9 flats, without the need to reapply again I'd be delighted.
The planning portal does not seem to be clear about what application form to use, should I use "Outline Planning Permission" application form or another one. Any advice or knowledge gratefully received on this one.
You can't have an outline change of use, as a change of use technically doesn't involve development and is purely concerned with changing the use. It follows that the change of use of the building is either acceptable or not. If building works are involved in the change of use then that may, depending on extent and degree of what is proposed, require planning approval. It would be unusual to go for outline planning approval for any such required works as the principle is unlikley to be in doubt and it is the specific impact of development that would really need to be assessed.
Whether the change of use is acceptable is dependent on many factors, including the surrounding land use, local plan policy and acceptable provision for the residential use. You are best speaking to the relevant planning department before proceeding.
Whether the change of use is acceptable is dependent on many factors, including the surrounding land use, local plan policy and acceptable provision for the residential use. You are best speaking to the relevant planning department before proceeding.
If it's genuinely change of use, you need to use the 'Full Planning Consent' 1APP forms, but change of use is just that... you take an existing building or piece of land and start using it for a different purpose, with essentially no modifications.
If you're talking about major conversion or new-build, then theoretically you'd be looking at an outline application, but in practice they'd want sufficient details as to almost make this meaningless, so in maost cases of this sort you might as well go for a full application (after taking pre-app advice).
At risk of stating the obvious, though, you're better off asking a Planning Officer at the local Planning Authority for advice than asking us muppets on here; apart from anything else, it sounds as though you will need to confirm what are called the 'validation requirements' (ie. what information they will deem necessary before they can start looking at your proposal), which may not neccessarily be obvious.
If you're talking about major conversion or new-build, then theoretically you'd be looking at an outline application, but in practice they'd want sufficient details as to almost make this meaningless, so in maost cases of this sort you might as well go for a full application (after taking pre-app advice).
At risk of stating the obvious, though, you're better off asking a Planning Officer at the local Planning Authority for advice than asking us muppets on here; apart from anything else, it sounds as though you will need to confirm what are called the 'validation requirements' (ie. what information they will deem necessary before they can start looking at your proposal), which may not neccessarily be obvious.
Have just spent 3 years, and several thousand pounds, doing the reverse. Unfortunately I got turned down, mainly due to complaints from neighbours who were concerned about business parking - so watch out for that one.
I had the last laugh on them - converted house into 7 apartments. 7 apts produces more people than a small business, and typically there at the same time as residents.
I had the last laugh on them - converted house into 7 apartments. 7 apts produces more people than a small business, and typically there at the same time as residents.
Planning Officer is going to take 2+ weeks from my phone call this morning before even getting to read the request for advice, so I'd rather get cracking and have some of the answers to their queries. I know there would quite a bit to converting a former church hall into a house.
So where do I go from here? Do we forget the conversion of a hall into a bungalow as any sort of option and go for outline planning permission for 3 town houses, or full planning for 3 town houses. Bearing in mind I really only want the principal established rather than spending a stack of money on getting detailed architect plans drawn up, only for those to be scrapped and wasted, but then again I understand that with proper plans they are more likely to be accepted and make the land more valuable.
Personally I think that if some semi-derelict land and a car's width of a neighbouring council owned overly large garden beside the property was combined with the property there would be a huge potential for some housing association/social housing development, but knowing the potential delays that could entail from getting permissions and the timescales to fruition for these sort of developers, it is an option I'd prefer to have as a bonus rather than the only option.
What would you do in the same situation?
edited to correct typo
So where do I go from here? Do we forget the conversion of a hall into a bungalow as any sort of option and go for outline planning permission for 3 town houses, or full planning for 3 town houses. Bearing in mind I really only want the principal established rather than spending a stack of money on getting detailed architect plans drawn up, only for those to be scrapped and wasted, but then again I understand that with proper plans they are more likely to be accepted and make the land more valuable.
Personally I think that if some semi-derelict land and a car's width of a neighbouring council owned overly large garden beside the property was combined with the property there would be a huge potential for some housing association/social housing development, but knowing the potential delays that could entail from getting permissions and the timescales to fruition for these sort of developers, it is an option I'd prefer to have as a bonus rather than the only option.
What would you do in the same situation?
edited to correct typo
Edited by thepeoplespal on Friday 26th November 18:44
Please don’t take this as an insult but it sounds like you’re new to planning and development. Whatever you do don’t solely rely on advice from this, or any other, forum. Without knowing the detail of the size, area, local plan policy, etc. it is nearly impossible to give good qualified advice. I suggest you get such advice from a qualified planning consultant as they should be able to look at your proposal and give you some idea on its viability based on the relevant facts and material planning considerations.
Things like this are not normally a priority for planning officers because despite what many people seem to think they are not employed to be used as consultants for developers. They are primarily there to assess the specific impacts of submitted planning applications against relevant national and local planning policy, as is required under the relevant legislation. Beyond that any advice given is generally done so as a free service (some authorities do now charge) separate from their main work. Remember that two weeks in overall timescale of development and life of a building is insignificant really. It is better to spend time working through the proposal now than rush into something blindly.
Things like this are not normally a priority for planning officers because despite what many people seem to think they are not employed to be used as consultants for developers. They are primarily there to assess the specific impacts of submitted planning applications against relevant national and local planning policy, as is required under the relevant legislation. Beyond that any advice given is generally done so as a free service (some authorities do now charge) separate from their main work. Remember that two weeks in overall timescale of development and life of a building is insignificant really. It is better to spend time working through the proposal now than rush into something blindly.
RedWhiteMonkey said:
Please don’t take this as an insult but it sounds like you’re new to planning and development. Whatever you do don’t solely rely on advice from this, or any other, forum. Without knowing the detail of the size, area, local plan policy, etc. it is nearly impossible to give good qualified advice. I suggest you get such advice from a qualified planning consultant as they should be able to look at your proposal and give you some idea on its viability based on the relevant facts and material planning considerations.
Things like this are not normally a priority for planning officers because despite what many people seem to think they are not employed to be used as consultants for developers. They are primarily there to assess the specific impacts of submitted planning applications against relevant national and local planning policy, as is required under the relevant legislation. Beyond that any advice given is generally done so as a free service (some authorities do now charge) separate from their main work. Remember that two weeks in overall timescale of development and life of a building is insignificant really. It is better to spend time working through the proposal now than rush into something blindly.
Certainly no insult taken whatsoever, readily admit to being completely green, so green I didn't know that there were qualified planning consultants. How do you get one of them then? and how do you know they are qualified as such?Things like this are not normally a priority for planning officers because despite what many people seem to think they are not employed to be used as consultants for developers. They are primarily there to assess the specific impacts of submitted planning applications against relevant national and local planning policy, as is required under the relevant legislation. Beyond that any advice given is generally done so as a free service (some authorities do now charge) separate from their main work. Remember that two weeks in overall timescale of development and life of a building is insignificant really. It is better to spend time working through the proposal now than rush into something blindly.
Thanks for the heads up on the planning officers. I was really only trying to get relevant information ready, rather than thinking about rushing an application in.
thepeoplespal said:
What would you do in the same situation?
I'd wait the 2+ weeks and speak to the Planning Officer.As RWM says, initial pre-application queries are not a priority, particularly - again no offence intended - if they are coming from someone like yourself: if I ring for an appointment, working as I do for a major developer, they know I'm serious. They get hundreds of speculative enquiries from Joe Public and simply don't have the resources to deal with them all. They are genuinely busy a lot of the time, but even if they weren't they'd probably give you a two week timescale to help sort the wheat from the chaff...
...But in the long run, it will be quicker and cheaper to wait the two weeks and get the Officer's advice than to launch into an application at half-cock, only to find it takes you a couple of months to put together the neccessary documentation to even get the application registered, then find it's either refused or you're asked to withdraw it and resubmit because there are fundamental issues to address.
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