Unusual Auto Electric/Frozen Pipe Question

[Flashheart]

Hello All,

The tap in my field is frozen and carting >100L of water everyday for the horses is wearing thin. The pipe is buried 1m deep, where it comes up the 25mm plastic pipe is wrapped in thick pipe insulation and boxed in with over 3" vermiculite chips all around - but it still freezes!

My cunning plan is to wrap the pipe in wire (maintaining the current insulation) which I could then connect to a car battery and heat the pipe thereby thawing it.

I don't know anything about auto electrics so was wondering in anybody could give me a clue as to what thickness/length of wire I would have to use. I have plenty of 240v cable floating around and a fair bit of 10mm earth wire too if that would be suitable. Any help is gratefully appreciated.

Regards, Flash

[herewego]

You can't use any kind of normal wire as it will turn red hot and burn through the pipes.
You can get 12v heating cables if they haven't sold out.

Is it a standpipe? Would it be possible to put an upsidedown bin over it? And if that isn't enough you could put the battery inside the bin with a small light bulb to create some heat. Car batteries don't last many cycles though.

[Gingerbread Man]

You can get heat trace cable (google) which I think can run off 12 volts.

[Flashheart]

Thanks chaps, the tap is a standpipe but attached to a fence so a dustbin would be difficult but I like the idea though, maybe with a little lateral thinking. I have had a good look on Heat Trace's website and will give them a ring tomorrow as they seem to have some good stuff, right up my alley fnarr. Ebay have some 12v heating cable but most places seem to have sold out as you say.

Cheers guys

[Eggman]

Strictly speaking, you could use any old wire - but in order to generate sensible amounts of heat (let's say 5w, if it's inside the insulation) and not flatten the battery too quickly you would need absolutely miles of it to get sufficient resistance (30-ish ohms to produce 5w). You could always use thinner wire, but you would still be left with the problem of having to charge car batteries and lug them about.

I like Herewego's idea of the inverted bin, though - how about placing a hurricane lamp underneath it?

ETA: Just seen what you posted whilst I was typing. Put a board behind the fence and use half a dustbin

Edited by Eggman on Sunday 19th December 20:57

[eldar]

Once you've got it thawed, leave it trickling slightly if it looks like being extra cold.

[Flashheart]

I'm not too fussed about flattening the battery, I have several deep discharge batteries to power the electric fence so there is always one on charge. I use the tap to fill a 500l water trough so I don't need to defrost it everyday hence the idea of having some kind of wire/cable 'intermittent' heat rather than a permanent source. The pipes haven't split so far so I am willing to risk this approach (don't quote me on this when I am complaining of a burst pipe later on)!

[jeff m]

So it's true "you can't lead a horse to water"

If your pipe is 1M deep and you have a standpipe you should be ok !
It is a proper standpipe ?
The type with valve at the bottom.

My friend eventually installed a couple of these after years of frigging about with mains electric cable. He used the main heating cable intended for use on roofs to melt snow.

Depth of standpipe needed should be the same as the frostline for your area.
I didn't check you location before posting, assume you are not in Alaska

Ah Yorkshire.....1 Metre should be ok, you are aware the upright bit has no water in it, it drains back.

Edited by jeff m on Sunday 19th December 22:15

[Flashheart]

Having seen that picture Jeff I realised that what I call a standpipe isn't! Thanks a lot for that, I had no idea such a thing existed. It certainly seems ideal & will take all the hassle out of messing around trying to defrost pipes all the time. Where did you get the photo from, is it from a particular website?

Thanks for all the help chaps.

Edited by Flashheart on Monday 20th December 08:23

[jeff m]

Flashheart said:

Having seen that picture Jeff I realised that what I call a standpipe isn't! Thanks a lot for that, I had no idea such a thing existed. It certainly seems ideal & will take all the hassle out of messing around trying to defrost pipes all the time. Where did you get the photo from, is it from a particular website?

Thanks for all the help chaps.

Edited by Flashheart on Monday 20th December 08:23

That pic was just a Google image as I suspected your standpipe was not a standpipe and thought it was the easiest way to explain it.
I'm in the States so these things are common and can be purchased at plumbing supplies or hardwares in farming areas.
Could be a Spring project though if your ground is frozen more than 6 inches.