Light switch - rocker not 'turning' off

[3sixty]

Firstly I'm not the greatest at DIY and I have done a google search but think I may be using the wrong terminology to make it a worthwhile search.

Putting an external light outside, there is already a power lead pulled through the wall so I pull back the sheathing to find a black, brown, grey and bare copper wire. Already I'm slightly confused as I was always used to red/green&yellow etc.

The instructions make no mention of the grey wire, so left that out and wired as it said. Light didnt work or trip the fuse, so went for some trial and error.

Inevitably tripped the fuse on my 2nd attempt. Rewired and got it working but the light with a PIR is constantly on. Also tried to flick the switch on wall inside to find the rocker now not sticking on the 'off' position.

So firstly, whats wrong with my switch? And secondly, how do I wire it properly?

For simplicity:

3 switch wall switch -> brown/black/grey/bare copper wire -> External light with Live switch/Live/Neutral/Earth connections

[Raverbaby]

You sound like you've fried yur switch, this will need to be replaced.
Can you post up a picture of the back of the light switch that the 3 core cable is coming from? ( only if you feel confident and that the power is off).
If wired correctly the Brown should be your Live at the light, and Grey(sleeved/marked blue) be your Neutral, the black core will not get used in a standard PIR floodlight.
The only way to test whats doing what is visually or by using a multimeter, do you have one?
What was the cable doing before, was it just hanging out of the wall?

[Deva Link]

3sixty said:

3 switch wall switch -> brown/black/grey/bare copper wire -> External light with Live switch/Live/Neutral/Earth connections

Raverbaby is, I think, correct with the colours - there's a lot of confusion over the new colour cables for 3 core + earth:

(brown) = permanant live
(black) = switched live (sleeved brown)
(grey) = neutral (sleeved blue)

Looks like your lamp does need a switched live (in order to manually turn it on).

However is there a permanent live and a neutral in the switch box that you're wiring from? Normal switch wiring wouldn't have them.

As for the rocker switch, sounds like it just broken - they do sometimes.

[3sixty]

It's a new build house and the power cord was already hanging outside the wall.

Don't really want to take the switch off as could just extend my problems!

By the sounds of it I should wire in black, grey and earth? And leave brown?

[Deva Link]

It was just hanging there but was live?

It's really not ideal to just randomly connect it up without knowing for sure what the other end of the cable is doing, but have you got (or can you get hold of) some sort of voltage tester? You could even make one with a 240V lamp and lamp holder. You could check the cable to earth and neutral then, and check whether the live is switched or not.

[3sixty]

It had a white plastic box round it, which I took down and there was the cable inside taped up.

It is made for external lights and a few houses down has done it too

[miniman]

Black - neutral
Brown - live
Bare copper - earth
Grey - not needed (builder probably using up a bit of left over from elsewhere)

If you have flicked the switch a few times, you'll probably find you've overridden the PIR - check the instructions but most have a mechanism where on/off 3-5 times will force it on regardless of motion.

[Deva Link]

miniman said:

Grey - not needed (builder probably using up a bit of left over from elsewhere)

That's possible but pretty unlikely I would say. But then it's bit off to leave one end connected and the other end not.

The wiring really needs checking to be sure what's what.

[miniman]

Where exactly on the house is this white box? It could well be part of alarm system wiring (external bell box).

[Raverbaby]

miniman said:

Black - neutral

Black should not be used as neutral when using harmonised cable & 17th Edition.

RED replaces BROWN
YELLOW replaces BLACK
BLUE replaces GREY

OP really needs to get a multimeter to prove whats what.

[Vipers]

Raverbaby said:

really needs to get a multimeter to prove whats what.

Beat me to it.

[Laplandboss]

Jesus Christ! There is some bks being spoken here! Regardless of the colours, nobody can identify what colour is what without seeing it in person. OP, if you are not sure you need an electrician to see it in person. From what I read, there is a bare copper cable? If this is the case it does not comply with BS 7671 and part P and the alleged electrician who wired it up needs to be dragged back to put it right.

[Brite spark]

Laplandboss said:

Jesus Christ! There is some bks being spoken here! Regardless of the colours, nobody can identify what colour is what without seeing it in person. OP, if you are not sure you need an electrician to see it in person. From what I read, there is a bare copper cable? If this is the case it does not comply with BS 7671 and part P and the alleged electrician who wired it up needs to be dragged back to put it right.

Taking the cable to be triple and earth, hence the bare wire is the cpc. Agree with you on the colours though really shouldn't be trying to guess what they could be

aah sorry you mean it should be sleeved- not that it is bare copper- easy to see hoe mistakes could be made

[3sixty]

miniman said:

Where exactly on the house is this white box? It could well be part of alarm system wiring (external bell box).

Just to the left of the front door, same height as door. I'd assume it was for a light, confirmed by the site staff and also neighbours have used it. I think it would be too low for a bell box.

I'll grab a sparky from the other part of the site when I get time and get him to tell me. I presume we changed the colour to match EU? Feels like a step backwards!

[Smiler.]

3sixty said:

miniman said:

Where exactly on the house is this white box? It could well be part of alarm system wiring (external bell box).

Just to the left of the front door, same height as door. I'd assume it was for a light, confirmed by the site staff and also neighbours have used it. I think it would be too low for a bell box.

I'll grab a sparky from the other part of the site when I get time and get him to tell me. I presume we changed the colour to match EU? Feels like a step backwards!

Yep. It's standard format is a balanced 3-phase connection (no neutral). The original installer needs their bks slapped for not correctly identifying the connections (live, switched live & neutral), as does the main contractor for not supplying the requisite as-installed information.

Progress my arse.

[Deva Link]

3sixty said:

miniman said:

Where exactly on the house is this white box? It could well be part of alarm system wiring (external bell box).

Just to the left of the front door, same height as door. I'd assume it was for a light, confirmed by the site staff and also neighbours have used it. I think it would be too low for a bell box.

Sounds like it probably is for a light, but it seems remarkably generous of them to include a switched live wire rather than just using twin and earth.

That type of cable can also used between 2 way switches and bathroon fans.

[Raverbaby]

Could the white box you describe have been a stand alone PIR controling external lighting?
Please do let us know when the mystery is solved

Edited by Raverbaby on Monday 3rd January 18:45

[Laplandboss]

Raverbaby said:

Could the white box you describe have been a stand alone PIR controling external lighting?
Please do let us know when the mystery is solved

Edited by Raverbaby on Monday 3rd January 18:45

The OP said it is a new build house. I would be very surprised if this is the answer. I have come across this before; somebody asked me for a price to fit an outside light at the front and rear of their house. I told them I would need to see the job first to see how much of a pig the wiring will be. They said it is a new build and the wiring was there. When I turned up, there was a three gang switch on the downstairs landing doing the ground floor and a two-way to the first floor landing. The third witch did bugger all. There was a waterproof box at the front of the house. The cable was live and cut off at the end with no proper termination. This is not permitted by the wiring regs and obviously as rough as a three quid hand-job. The cable should be connected into proper terminals with the bare CPC conductor covered by yellow/green sleeving and the terminals labelled.

[3sixty]

Laplandboss said:

Raverbaby said:

Could the white box you describe have been a stand alone PIR controling external lighting?
Please do let us know when the mystery is solved

Edited by Raverbaby on Monday 3rd January 18:45

The OP said it is a new build house. I would be very surprised if this is the answer. I have come across this before; somebody asked me for a price to fit an outside light at the front and rear of their house. I told them I would need to see the job first to see how much of a pig the wiring will be. They said it is a new build and the wiring was there. When I turned up, there was a three gang switch on the downstairs landing doing the ground floor and a two-way to the first floor landing. The third witch did bugger all. There was a waterproof box at the front of the house. The cable was live and cut off at the end with no proper termination. This is not permitted by the wiring regs and obviously as rough as a three quid hand-job. The cable should be connected into proper terminals with the bare CPC conductor covered by yellow/green sleeving and the terminals labelled.

This describes my situation exactly.