Water Descalers

[mrsxllifts]

Hi, apologies if this has been before, I have used the search but got no returns but this is the PH search!

We are currently fitting a new kitchen and I am wondering about water descalers to stop the build up on the taps, shower, etc. A proper water softner is not an option, too many issues with space, access, health issues etc but have been on t'interweb and seen these electronic things.

I am fairly up to speed with chemistry so logic says they can't work but people seem to rate them, not just on the selling site, and reckon they work, so question is, do they? Even a reduction in the speed of the build up would be good. Anyone have any experiance with them?

Thanks

Hannah

[Paul Drawmer]

mrsxllifts said:

.. A proper water softner is not an option, too many issues with space, access, health issues etc ...Hannah

What's the health issue with a proper water softener?

[60]

Paul Drawmer said:

mrsxllifts said:

.. A proper water softner is not an option, too many issues with space, access, health issues etc ...Hannah

What's the health issue with a proper water softener?

Salt levels?

[Webber3]

60 said:

Paul Drawmer said:

mrsxllifts said:

.. A proper water softner is not an option, too many issues with space, access, health issues etc ...Hannah

What's the health issue with a proper water softener?

Salt levels?

That's why you have to fit at least one drinking water tap that bypasses the softener. We have two fresh water supplies, one feeds the fridge.

[mrsxllifts]

I'm allergic to something in the salt in a proper water softener which triggers a rash, oozing pus etc. Found it out whilst living at my parents and have tried the theory at a few other properties with them with the same results! Only time I've escaped it is the friend who hadn't refilled the salt for 12 months as 'the guarentee hadn't run out' Don't know which chemical it is, it just doesn't like me!

[Simpo Two]

60 said:

Paul Drawmer said:

Salt levels?

That's why you have to fit at least one drinking water tap that bypasses the softener. We have two fresh water supplies, one feeds the fridge.

Softened water isn't salty; the salt is only used to recharge the ion-exchange resin. You have a 'drinking water' tap in case the softener breaks and leaves you with no water at all.

Sticking magnets on your pipes comes from the same school of thought that thinks you can run your car on water.

Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 2nd January 08:54

[sploosh]

I tried one (about a fiver, not the £100 ones) and it didn't work - left it on for at least 6 months, very hard water around here.

Didn't expect it to really.... but as you say, the reviews are always good and i had to find out.

Worth a go to scratch the itch perhaps.

[Ferg]

The sodium level in artificially soft water is too high for anyone on a low sodium diet including babies under 6 months.
Magnetic devices make the scale softer and reduce the build up. None of the other benefits of soft water.

[Toyless]

Ferg said:

Magnetic devices make the scale softer and reduce the build up. None of the other benefits of soft water.

Worth fitting one if Im putting a new electric shower in ? Any recommendations Ferg ?

[Simpo Two]

Ferg said:

The sodium level in artificially soft water is too high for anyone on a low sodium diet including babies under 6 months.

Ah yes, so sodium ions not salt.

[Fatboy]

Simpo Two said:

Ferg said:

The sodium level in artificially soft water is too high for anyone on a low sodium diet including babies under 6 months.

Ah yes, so sodium ions not salt.

Sodium ions being half of salt - question comes down to whether it's sodium levels or chloride levels that are the problem.

IIRC ion exchange system just swap the Calcium ions for sodium ions, giving calcium chloride in the resin and sodium carbonate in the water...

[Vee]

I've had a Maplin £60 on for the past year. The type where the wire is coiled around the incoming main, by the water meter.
Scale still forms but it's like a powder which can be wiped away with a tissue when dry. The shower doors have never been so clean.

[mrsxllifts]

That's what I have been looking at, the coil round the pipe thing. Even if it makes the scale easier to remove it has to be a good thing.

[Simpo Two]

Fatboy said:

Sodium ions being half of salt - question comes down to whether it's sodium levels or chloride levels that are the problem.

IIRC ion exchange system just swap the Calcium ions for sodium ions, giving calcium chloride in the resin and sodium carbonate in the water...

Subject to checking up on the Permutit process, I suspect the chloride part doesn't go into the water. I think that if you had sodium ions (+) and chlorine (-) ions in the same place they'd combine back to salt and any effect of the ions would be lost.

[Sticks.]

I've had one of these for a few years and there's noticeably less scale build up http://www.scalewizard.co.uk/?gcid=S18394x014-bran...

FWIW the tap water here is so bad I don't drink it.

[Fatboy]

Simpo Two said:

Fatboy said:

Sodium ions being half of salt - question comes down to whether it's sodium levels or chloride levels that are the problem.

IIRC ion exchange system just swap the Calcium ions for sodium ions, giving calcium chloride in the resin and sodium carbonate in the water...

Subject to checking up on the Permutit process, I suspect the chloride part doesn't go into the water. I think that if you had sodium ions (+) and chlorine (-) ions in the same place they'd combine back to salt and any effect of the ions would be lost.

I think you're right on the Chloride remaining in the resin, not going into the water - one point though, when dissolved in water salt splits into individual ions, that's what happens when it dissolves, the crystal structure breaks down to give individual ions in solution.

Ion exchange softens the water by taking the calcium ions out of solution, preventing limescale (calcium carbonate) from settling out of solution - it does this by swapping the Calcium ions for Sodium ions - with the calcuim ions safely locked in the resin there is no limescale in the water

[sploosh]

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=37766

... didn't work for me, but worth a punt at this price.

[Ferg]

Fatboy said:

Ion exchange softens the water by taking the calcium ions out of solution,

..and magnesium ions.

[mrsxllifts]

So have any of you plumbery people actually used, fitted, seen these elotronic wire things and have an opinion on them?

Think they are supposed to work by affect the magnetism so the chalky bits don't stick to the pipes and come out with the water, is this right? Or is it more complicated than that?

[Ferg]

That's about the size of it.

I've NEVER come across someone with the issue you have with an ion exchange water softener.
My advice would normally be to fit a proper softener.