School gate ideas
Discussion
My kids school gates shown.
We have a problem with unauthorised cars accessing the school at start and end of the day. The path shown with the stripes is the only pushchair access. We have NO funds available apart from the honest labour of parents. The main road shown is a busy 40mph and serves as the A1 relief and there is a concern about unauthorised cars coming out of the school into the traffic. Closing both gates is not an option. About 20 cars arrive before 8.30am.
The best idea I can come up with is to cone the path and close the right hand door keeping pushchair access but meaning that anyone using the drive will have to get out and open the other gate. There is a possibility that the right hand gate could be locked in position. And a sign on the gate saying no unauthorised vehicles.
Any other suggestions from the PH parking experts?
We have a problem with unauthorised cars accessing the school at start and end of the day. The path shown with the stripes is the only pushchair access. We have NO funds available apart from the honest labour of parents. The main road shown is a busy 40mph and serves as the A1 relief and there is a concern about unauthorised cars coming out of the school into the traffic. Closing both gates is not an option. About 20 cars arrive before 8.30am.
The best idea I can come up with is to cone the path and close the right hand door keeping pushchair access but meaning that anyone using the drive will have to get out and open the other gate. There is a possibility that the right hand gate could be locked in position. And a sign on the gate saying no unauthorised vehicles.
Any other suggestions from the PH parking experts?
I suspect the problem is created by parents who are in fact a lot more important than you , every school suffers problems with these tossers.
No matter what rules, signage or gates you put in place , they will carry on abusing it , as it obviously does not apply to them..
A couple of skinnys with RPG's is your only option.
Or a few weeks of somebody with authority standing there to speak with them, perhaps you could also talk to the local bobby , he / she would normally be pleased to spend time there at the end of each day every now and then , visible, friendly policing .
No matter what rules, signage or gates you put in place , they will carry on abusing it , as it obviously does not apply to them..
A couple of skinnys with RPG's is your only option.
Or a few weeks of somebody with authority standing there to speak with them, perhaps you could also talk to the local bobby , he / she would normally be pleased to spend time there at the end of each day every now and then , visible, friendly policing .
Busamav said:
I suspect the problem is created by parents who are in fact a lot more important than you , every school suffers problems with these tossers.
No matter what rules, signage or gates you put in place , they will carry on abusing it , as it obviously does not apply to them..
A couple of skinnys with RPG's is your only option.
Or a few weeks of somebody with authority standing there to speak with them, perhaps you could also talk to the local bobby , he / she would normally be pleased to spend time there at the end of each day every now and then , visible, friendly policing .
The bollard keeps getting kicked out. We had a campaign to get parents to stop parking on the street outside the school, there is a pub car park nearby where they can park but it means a 3 minute walk. They did stop parking on the street but slowly it has crept back again. There is an element of parents who use the school parking as their own.No matter what rules, signage or gates you put in place , they will carry on abusing it , as it obviously does not apply to them..
A couple of skinnys with RPG's is your only option.
Or a few weeks of somebody with authority standing there to speak with them, perhaps you could also talk to the local bobby , he / she would normally be pleased to spend time there at the end of each day every now and then , visible, friendly policing .
The road is a 40mph and as it is the A1 relief road the powers that be will not reduce the limit until there is a fatality. We have a speed camera which does keep the speeds down to 40mph. However the parking is always an issue, the line of parked cars does offer protection in case of a crash to pedestrians, however cars pulling out into the traffic is unsafe.
I will post another photo later to show the full parking. Thanks for the comments.
If we half close the gates then I suspect the area in front of them will simply get used as a dropping off zone. I think we will have to extend the yellow lines and perhaps get some freestanding no parking signs or more cones, or those Police no parking cones perhaps.
Shirly if it's parents dropping kids off, the answer would be to introduce some "PTA marshals" at drop off/pick up time. Refuse to let them open their car doors to do said drop off/pick up.
Issue a letter telling them that any pick ups/drop offs done on school premises will be subject to a £10 fee per occasion. Then use the marshals to collect the reg numbers, and associate them with specific children. Send out bills, spend money on new swipe card barrier system.
Issue a letter telling them that any pick ups/drop offs done on school premises will be subject to a £10 fee per occasion. Then use the marshals to collect the reg numbers, and associate them with specific children. Send out bills, spend money on new swipe card barrier system.
Barrier system, either automated or with someone stood by it opening and closing it combined with parking permits issued to people authorised to park in the car park, failing that just keep the gate shut at drop off time staff should be in before then and if not get a padlock and multiple keys all staff who may be "late" get a key.
lost in espace said:
We had a campaign to get parents to stop parking on the street outside the school, there is a pub car park nearby where they can park but it means a 3 minute walk. They did stop parking on the street but slowly it has crept back again.
You mean they are parking outside the school to drop off/collect their children, or abusing it by pakring there all day and going shopping etc? And if they use the pub car-park, the landlord will eventually get mad and throw them out - parents are your traffic not his!lost in espace said:
the powers that be will not reduce the limit until there is a fatality
Does the fact there has *not* been a fatality suggest that actually things are not as bad as you think? Remember a speed limit applies 24/7/365, not just 2x20 minutes during term-time - and there are other factors the Council has to consider. There's a primary school near me and if I see loads of cars parked outside and parents and children milling around, I slow down accordingly, not go past at the speed limit.lost in espace said:
If we half close the gates then I suspect the area in front of them will simply get used as a dropping off zone. I think we will have to extend the yellow lines and perhaps get some freestanding no parking signs or more cones, or those Police no parking cones perhaps.
I'm not aware of the exact situation but what is your preferred method for children to get into school - parachute or tunnel? Restrictions are all fine and dandy but sometimes they just move the problem elsewhere (the pub) or make it worse - and the more restrictions you force on people the rattier and crosser they get. One man's freedom is another man's traffic 
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 19th January 16:23
I go the other way on this one. Encourage parents to park on the road. Unless it is very wide, it would quickly slow the traffic down.
Your problem is not I suspect 'unauthorised access' - more that parents are struggling to park elsewhere. 3 minutes walk each way with kids in the rain and cold when you are late for school and work could be seen as a lot.
Otherwise just get the last teacher to park so that access is not possible beyond the school building. Once parents become aware that there is no turning space I suspect problem semi-solved.
I await the post asking how do we stop parents using our entrance as a drop off point though...
Your problem is not I suspect 'unauthorised access' - more that parents are struggling to park elsewhere. 3 minutes walk each way with kids in the rain and cold when you are late for school and work could be seen as a lot.
Otherwise just get the last teacher to park so that access is not possible beyond the school building. Once parents become aware that there is no turning space I suspect problem semi-solved.
I await the post asking how do we stop parents using our entrance as a drop off point though...
The reality of the school run though is that is carried out in a hurry, by people who are fractious as they have been wound up by their kids, the traffic, life and other school run mums for the entire journey.
Normally they have to be elsewhere.
Having spent many a morning or evening on "bus duty" watching the school run kick out or pick up as a perk of a previous job, it's mayhem. Mostly carried out by late workers or the driving inept (school run mum). My last school had a roll of about 1300. Even allowing for the walkers and busses that is a lot of cars arriving and leaving in a 15 minute gap.
If you want them to stop pulling off the main road, onto school grounds to drop their kids off at your school (without whom you wouldn't have a school) you need to provide facilities for them to do so. A pub, or a.n.other business 3 minutes walk away (so probably 5 mins, or more, if there are younger siblings, PE kit or music instruments to lug, coats to put on, prams to assemble etc etc) is not a realistic option and I would say unfair on the business to expect it them to tolerate it.
Paint on the road, marshalls, teachers doing "bus duty", plastic police or real plod will not make a long term jot of difference. People need to drop their kids off, they will be in a hurry, or late, or on a circuit taking in 2 or 3 schools, or lazy, or more important than you, or others. Many will not care what you, or any authority thinks about it. (We used to have them park in the playground, which involved driving over a grass verge, on the zig zags to, on on the zebra crossings and often blocking the coachs in. No solution was found, even with proactive help from the BiB)
Looking at the photo, is there space to make the entrance a "drop off, no stopping zone"? cone off where the gates are with a "marshall" to allow staff in, but keepers have to to pull off road, kick out the kids and continue on their merry way swiftly?
If you make something easier and safer to use, then that is what will get used!!
(As that WHAT you can do to achieve this, is the question I guess that you asked in the first place!! Ahem. Sorry)
Normally they have to be elsewhere.
Having spent many a morning or evening on "bus duty" watching the school run kick out or pick up as a perk of a previous job, it's mayhem. Mostly carried out by late workers or the driving inept (school run mum). My last school had a roll of about 1300. Even allowing for the walkers and busses that is a lot of cars arriving and leaving in a 15 minute gap.
If you want them to stop pulling off the main road, onto school grounds to drop their kids off at your school (without whom you wouldn't have a school) you need to provide facilities for them to do so. A pub, or a.n.other business 3 minutes walk away (so probably 5 mins, or more, if there are younger siblings, PE kit or music instruments to lug, coats to put on, prams to assemble etc etc) is not a realistic option and I would say unfair on the business to expect it them to tolerate it.
Paint on the road, marshalls, teachers doing "bus duty", plastic police or real plod will not make a long term jot of difference. People need to drop their kids off, they will be in a hurry, or late, or on a circuit taking in 2 or 3 schools, or lazy, or more important than you, or others. Many will not care what you, or any authority thinks about it. (We used to have them park in the playground, which involved driving over a grass verge, on the zig zags to, on on the zebra crossings and often blocking the coachs in. No solution was found, even with proactive help from the BiB)
Looking at the photo, is there space to make the entrance a "drop off, no stopping zone"? cone off where the gates are with a "marshall" to allow staff in, but keepers have to to pull off road, kick out the kids and continue on their merry way swiftly?
If you make something easier and safer to use, then that is what will get used!!
(As that WHAT you can do to achieve this, is the question I guess that you asked in the first place!! Ahem. Sorry)
The pushchair path where it crosses the driveway should not be adjacent to the main road - currently cars leaving the 40mph road come straight onto the pushchair markings where pushchairs cross the driveway.
If you could remove the crossing, adding another walkway up on the right of the pics as well, so there's a path both sides, with a crossing across the drive way up past where the gates are, any traffic going over the hatches would then be travelling slower.
Or keep the righthand gate shut, so traffic can come in (staff) but can't get back out again (parents).
If you could remove the crossing, adding another walkway up on the right of the pics as well, so there's a path both sides, with a crossing across the drive way up past where the gates are, any traffic going over the hatches would then be travelling slower.
Or keep the righthand gate shut, so traffic can come in (staff) but can't get back out again (parents).
Many countries have blanket 20mph zones just because it's by a school.
Much as I hate them, I think getting some clamping scum in may actually be the answer. Given that the problem is only half an hour in the morning, and half an hour in the afternoon, at predictable times, they should be interested in stationing a thug in hi-vis on the premises (would be SIA approved of course) to stuff parking invoices under the windscreen of any unauthorised car. So long as you send a letter home first telling all the parents that this will be the case. Make sure it's not called a penalty charge and you should be fine.
Much as I hate them, I think getting some clamping scum in may actually be the answer. Given that the problem is only half an hour in the morning, and half an hour in the afternoon, at predictable times, they should be interested in stationing a thug in hi-vis on the premises (would be SIA approved of course) to stuff parking invoices under the windscreen of any unauthorised car. So long as you send a letter home first telling all the parents that this will be the case. Make sure it's not called a penalty charge and you should be fine.
mk1fan said:
Busamav said:
davidjpowell said:
3 minutes walk each way with kids in the rain and cold
I can't even start to imagine how tough their life must be , especially for important people .It's reality, rather than PH ideals I am afraid....
Still just for those who object.
You could make ask police to put double yellows outside the school, and ensure that a warden is there each morning or afternoon. Make sure that you cone of your entrance as it will be used as a drop-off. Parents will be glad to park 3 minutes walk away and will happily brezze in on time in a sea of calm with little freddy and mable (and baby brother / sister) in tow.... As if!
Simpo Two said:
lost in espace said:
We had a campaign to get parents to stop parking on the street outside the school, there is a pub car park nearby where they can park but it means a 3 minute walk. They did stop parking on the street but slowly it has crept back again.
You mean they are parking outside the school to drop off/collect their children, or abusing it by pakring there all day and going shopping etc? And if they use the pub car-park, the landlord will eventually get mad and throw them out - parents are your traffic not his!lost in espace said:
the powers that be will not reduce the limit until there is a fatality
Does the fact there has *not* been a fatality suggest that actually things are not as bad as you think? Remember a speed limit applies 24/7/365, not just 2x20 minutes during term-time - and there are other factors the Council has to consider. There's a primary school near me and if I see loads of cars parked outside and parents and children milling around, I slow down accordingly, not go past at the speed limit.lost in espace said:
If we half close the gates then I suspect the area in front of them will simply get used as a dropping off zone. I think we will have to extend the yellow lines and perhaps get some freestanding no parking signs or more cones, or those Police no parking cones perhaps.
I'm not aware of the exact situation but what is your preferred method for children to get into school - parachute or tunnel? Restrictions are all fine and dandy but sometimes they just move the problem elsewhere (the pub) or make it worse - and the more restrictions you force on people the rattier and crosser they get. One man's freedom is another man's traffic Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 19th January 16:23
We had an accident at 7.45am on a weekday when a car turned over end ended up on the footpath by the school. If it had happened an hour later there could easily have been a fatality, but on the other hand the row of cars would have prevented the car from mounting the kerb. The traffic is not actually too fast despite the 40mph, as you say the school "traffic" tends to slow the flow down quite well. The police have said that parking on the road is actually an offence and have threatened to ticket but have never actually done so. To park legally you need to be parked with the flow of traffic and have your sidelights on in a 40mph. The PCSO often comes but does not seem to do much apart from argue with parents.
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