Rabbit advice needed
Discussion
I've got a pair of dwarf lionheads (brother and sister) taken from a rabbit rescue centre about 2 years ago. I've just come home to find the male dead and I'm hoping someone can provide some advice about making sure the female isn't at risk.
A bit of background:
I adopted the brother/sister pair two years ago after some fairly stringent checks by the rescue centre (minimum 6ft hutch, minimum 6x10ft run, personal inspection etc) and they've been well looked after. They were neutered etc prior to arrival. They live in my garage essentially but go out in the garden when the weather is good - then back in overnight, so I know they're warm enough (and the last 2 cold winters haven't affected them.) They're fed on Burgess pellets with veg once or twice a week. They used to be out in the garden regularly but recently that's not been practical (temp.) They've been given boggo P@H hay as well for most of the time we've had them.
About a fortnight ago I noticed the male was having issues with runny/sticky faeces. I ended up having to trim the fur to remove it - brush and rabbit shampoo didn't work. This continued so thinking it was likely to be a lack of greenery I made a point of feeding more spring greens and parsley and making sure that there was always timothy hay for them to eat. I thought it had worked as yesterday he seemed quite clean but he was very unresponsive, to the extent I could handle him without a struggle - he's normally docile and occasionally almost seems catatonic but this seemed unusual. And he didn't eat - normally shaking pellets in the bowl would send him into loops of the garage (as it did his sister.) This morning was exactly the same. My plan was to see if he was still the same tomorrow morning and if so take him to a vet. But this afternoon he's dead - very little body heat, no pulse from the arteries in the ear and they're stone cold and limbs rigid (I've some experience of dead humans and I'm pretty confident he has passed.)
Putting the emotions to one side (I've not told my OH yet) for now I'm trying to be practical. His sister seems fine (although subdued) and this morning she was as hungry as ever. She doesn't seem to have had the same issue with faeces although she has always been meticulously clean. I'm trying to work out a) what was the likely cause of death and b) is it likely to pose a risk to the female?
A side point which is probably me worrying about nothing is that my OH is pregnant - is there anything I need to be mindful of over and above basic hygiene measures?
A bit of background:
I adopted the brother/sister pair two years ago after some fairly stringent checks by the rescue centre (minimum 6ft hutch, minimum 6x10ft run, personal inspection etc) and they've been well looked after. They were neutered etc prior to arrival. They live in my garage essentially but go out in the garden when the weather is good - then back in overnight, so I know they're warm enough (and the last 2 cold winters haven't affected them.) They're fed on Burgess pellets with veg once or twice a week. They used to be out in the garden regularly but recently that's not been practical (temp.) They've been given boggo P@H hay as well for most of the time we've had them.
About a fortnight ago I noticed the male was having issues with runny/sticky faeces. I ended up having to trim the fur to remove it - brush and rabbit shampoo didn't work. This continued so thinking it was likely to be a lack of greenery I made a point of feeding more spring greens and parsley and making sure that there was always timothy hay for them to eat. I thought it had worked as yesterday he seemed quite clean but he was very unresponsive, to the extent I could handle him without a struggle - he's normally docile and occasionally almost seems catatonic but this seemed unusual. And he didn't eat - normally shaking pellets in the bowl would send him into loops of the garage (as it did his sister.) This morning was exactly the same. My plan was to see if he was still the same tomorrow morning and if so take him to a vet. But this afternoon he's dead - very little body heat, no pulse from the arteries in the ear and they're stone cold and limbs rigid (I've some experience of dead humans and I'm pretty confident he has passed.)
Putting the emotions to one side (I've not told my OH yet) for now I'm trying to be practical. His sister seems fine (although subdued) and this morning she was as hungry as ever. She doesn't seem to have had the same issue with faeces although she has always been meticulously clean. I'm trying to work out a) what was the likely cause of death and b) is it likely to pose a risk to the female?
A side point which is probably me worrying about nothing is that my OH is pregnant - is there anything I need to be mindful of over and above basic hygiene measures?
Gut Stasis.
I would get the other rabbit checked over but its a problem with the gut and in these annimals the digestive system works on a delicate balance of bacteria in the stomach and the food must go in and out regularly to keep it in balance.
Unfortunately rabbits are very good at not showing massive signs of illness until its very close to being all over.
The remedy in a lot of cases of gut stasis is to mix up a solution of "intensive care" powder - (ask the vet) into a small plastic syringe and basically adminster it carefully but regularly as if the rabbit was on hunger strike. This can simetimes get the guts moving again and it can resolve.
Its very very common and can be brought on from changes in environment, stress, eating grass thats too ealry in spring etc.
Sorry to hear that the rabbit is dead, rabbits should be kept in pairs so a trip to the rescue centre is in order - but listen to their advise about segregating them for a bit or you can have fights etc.
pm me if you want more help.
I would get the other rabbit checked over but its a problem with the gut and in these annimals the digestive system works on a delicate balance of bacteria in the stomach and the food must go in and out regularly to keep it in balance.
Unfortunately rabbits are very good at not showing massive signs of illness until its very close to being all over.
The remedy in a lot of cases of gut stasis is to mix up a solution of "intensive care" powder - (ask the vet) into a small plastic syringe and basically adminster it carefully but regularly as if the rabbit was on hunger strike. This can simetimes get the guts moving again and it can resolve.
Its very very common and can be brought on from changes in environment, stress, eating grass thats too ealry in spring etc.
Sorry to hear that the rabbit is dead, rabbits should be kept in pairs so a trip to the rescue centre is in order - but listen to their advise about segregating them for a bit or you can have fights etc.
pm me if you want more help.
Thanks for the prompt replies. I'm waiting for a reply from the rescue centre I originally adopted from for a recommendation for a vet locally, if I don't hear back my morning I'll take my chances on whatever Google/Yellow Pages throws up and get the female checked out.
I've got a vague memory of the woman at the rescue mentioning the need for pairs and the difficulties of ensuring that the two get along peacefully. I just hope she doesn't think there's anything I should have done differently as when we took the bunnies on it was on the proviso that she reserved the right to take them back if we didn't look after them properly. And her complaint of people returning rabbits on having a child is still ringing in my ears. If she's happy for us to adopt another and help us pair them off then we'll almost certainly be doing that. I say almost as I'm waiting on my OH arriving home so I can break the bad news - I hope she feels the same way.
I've got a vague memory of the woman at the rescue mentioning the need for pairs and the difficulties of ensuring that the two get along peacefully. I just hope she doesn't think there's anything I should have done differently as when we took the bunnies on it was on the proviso that she reserved the right to take them back if we didn't look after them properly. And her complaint of people returning rabbits on having a child is still ringing in my ears. If she's happy for us to adopt another and help us pair them off then we'll almost certainly be doing that. I say almost as I'm waiting on my OH arriving home so I can break the bad news - I hope she feels the same way.
Sorry to hear your rabbit passed away. This sounds exactly like the symptoms my rabbit had about 6 months ago, but fortunately a girl I work with is an RSPCA trustee who takes rabbits and she advised me what it might be.
Really strange as he'd always eaten them, it turned out to be far too many pellets in his diet. I just changed his diet to readi-grass and a small handful of pellets (no more than 10) every day and after a month or so he stopped being sluggish and was going back in the litter tray, no faeces everywhere and no cecals all over the place.
Hope your other rabbit is OK
Really strange as he'd always eaten them, it turned out to be far too many pellets in his diet. I just changed his diet to readi-grass and a small handful of pellets (no more than 10) every day and after a month or so he stopped being sluggish and was going back in the litter tray, no faeces everywhere and no cecals all over the place.
Hope your other rabbit is OK
I'm sorry too hear of your loss. It does sound like it was a gut problem and in hindsight he prob should have had veterinary tx when he first showed abnormalities or at least 2 days ago when signs worsened. A post mortem may tell more. There are things such as coccidia that can cause this to happen but I don't know if that would be a risk to your wife.
Finding a mate for a bunny is not as easy as it sounds as many do not mix well (even though we are told they shouldn't be alone!) but asking the same charity sounds like a good idea.
VHD is still seen but cases are usually acute with no build up and unpleasant. I'm assuming these bunnies were vacc against it anyway.
Sorry again. Rabbits are difficult critters to help when they get ill
Finding a mate for a bunny is not as easy as it sounds as many do not mix well (even though we are told they shouldn't be alone!) but asking the same charity sounds like a good idea.
VHD is still seen but cases are usually acute with no build up and unpleasant. I'm assuming these bunnies were vacc against it anyway.
Sorry again. Rabbits are difficult critters to help when they get ill
Rabbits, being prey animals, are very good at disguising being ill. You should (I know it's easy with hindsight) get your rabbit to the vet as soon as you notice anything amiss, especially dietary problems.
Rabbits with gut problems can go from alive to dead in a day, so don't delay.
Good luck with bonding your remaining rabbit with the newcomer, if possible introduce them on neutral ground. She will be very territorial (much more so than bucks) so any ground that does not have her smell on it will help. One of our pairs bonded in an evening, another pair (same male) took six months.
Rabbits with gut problems can go from alive to dead in a day, so don't delay.
Good luck with bonding your remaining rabbit with the newcomer, if possible introduce them on neutral ground. She will be very territorial (much more so than bucks) so any ground that does not have her smell on it will help. One of our pairs bonded in an evening, another pair (same male) took six months.
Our German lop could have problems with excess 'greens' giving him horrendous, smelly faeces. We had to take him to be shaved around the ass a couple of times. Once we learned to cut back on the greens, limited the pellets and made sure he had loads of fresh hay then he perked up with his poo drying up. The sight and smell of smeared rabit poo is just nasty!! Especially from a 5kg rabbit.
Too many greens is what did it for ours.. we spent a lot of time experimenting with greens but in the end cut them right back to treats only. We were buying the 'hay cookies' for him to stop trails of hay round the house.
Too many greens is what did it for ours.. we spent a lot of time experimenting with greens but in the end cut them right back to treats only. We were buying the 'hay cookies' for him to stop trails of hay round the house.
Generally GI Stasis is a symptom rather than a cause, unless its not eating.
There are so many things it could be, but i doubt VHD, in the majority of case VHD would present with bleeding from the nose and mouth, but not always. Coccidia infections are due to a low immune system, coccidia is a naturally occuring bug in the gut, and when the immune system is low, it goes mad, usually that would manifest in incredibly runny bum, like clear liquid pouring out, in our lot, those with coccidia showed no sign of colour in faeces, and they werent eating, they did suffer GI stasis.
The problem is, we could all speculate here till god knows when, if you wanna find out, take it to the vet and get them to do a PM, DO NOT freeze it before hand, the pm is pointless in that situation. Dont worry about it being all funky smelling, let the vets deal with that. You can stick him in the fridge, just be sure he doesnt touch anything!
Its highly likely that the GI stasis killed him, but as to why he has GI stasis, thats another question.
A diet too rich in pellets has been known to kick it off, as well as many other things, with out lot, they get pellets in the evening, and a shed load of hay in the morning, we get through a full bale of hay a week!!! Ready/reddy Grass is always good too, although that can produce the runs too, but thats normal, its because its very rich, kinda like letting them on the grass after a long time.
As for his partner, i dont know. they best thing is to keep a close eye on her, and if anything is amiss, get her to the vet, preferably the same vet that you speak to about this case.
There are so many things it could be, but i doubt VHD, in the majority of case VHD would present with bleeding from the nose and mouth, but not always. Coccidia infections are due to a low immune system, coccidia is a naturally occuring bug in the gut, and when the immune system is low, it goes mad, usually that would manifest in incredibly runny bum, like clear liquid pouring out, in our lot, those with coccidia showed no sign of colour in faeces, and they werent eating, they did suffer GI stasis.
The problem is, we could all speculate here till god knows when, if you wanna find out, take it to the vet and get them to do a PM, DO NOT freeze it before hand, the pm is pointless in that situation. Dont worry about it being all funky smelling, let the vets deal with that. You can stick him in the fridge, just be sure he doesnt touch anything!
Its highly likely that the GI stasis killed him, but as to why he has GI stasis, thats another question.
A diet too rich in pellets has been known to kick it off, as well as many other things, with out lot, they get pellets in the evening, and a shed load of hay in the morning, we get through a full bale of hay a week!!! Ready/reddy Grass is always good too, although that can produce the runs too, but thats normal, its because its very rich, kinda like letting them on the grass after a long time.
As for his partner, i dont know. they best thing is to keep a close eye on her, and if anything is amiss, get her to the vet, preferably the same vet that you speak to about this case.
do you still have the one that died??
I dont think the rescue would black list you, rabbits are not the easiest things in the world to keep track of.
You have to understand how they work and watch for absolutely anything, they are far far more sensitive than most people give them credit for, they die of shock rapidly, stress can kill them, there is so much.
If you still have the one that died, get the vets to PM it, at least you know then, and they know what they could potentially be dealing with.
I dont think the rescue would black list you, rabbits are not the easiest things in the world to keep track of.
You have to understand how they work and watch for absolutely anything, they are far far more sensitive than most people give them credit for, they die of shock rapidly, stress can kill them, there is so much.
If you still have the one that died, get the vets to PM it, at least you know then, and they know what they could potentially be dealing with.
Quick update. Have been to the vet and she seems fine. I thought that would be the case - there were warning signs with the first that are absent with the second. Have been reminded that myx/VHD jabs have lapsed so I've got one of those sorted and have been given a course of anti parasite treatment on a 'just in case' basis. I'd expected to be paying through the nose if I'm honest (vet's aren't known for being cheap) but it came to £30 for the appointment, jab and parasite treatment which was a relief.
I'm going to get the VHD jab up to date then contact the rescue and see about rehoming another bun. It's been a bit of a learning curve over the last few days but hopefully I won't make the same mistakes again.
I'm going to get the VHD jab up to date then contact the rescue and see about rehoming another bun. It's been a bit of a learning curve over the last few days but hopefully I won't make the same mistakes again.
I dont want to always be negative, however, its always worth remembering that even with the myxi and vhd jabs, they can still get the disease, the jabs are to give them a head start on fighting, unfortunately there is no cure for either!
On a happier note, am glad its all come together, and thats a good price too, i cant check now, but did that include the myxi jab??
On a happier note, am glad its all come together, and thats a good price too, i cant check now, but did that include the myxi jab??
The "inventor of Myxymatosis" died last year, had an obituary in the Telegraph, and apparently he also created a vaccine for an important human virus, whose name escapes me, at the moment.
I could have forgiven him for the vaccine, but to deliberately cause the suffering I've seen, on far too many times, at close quarters, which even killed a very special pet rabbit of mine, no way. I wish he could have suffered like the millions of animals he killed. And I wish I could have kicked him full in the balls. And then done it again.
b
d.
maggit
I could have forgiven him for the vaccine, but to deliberately cause the suffering I've seen, on far too many times, at close quarters, which even killed a very special pet rabbit of mine, no way. I wish he could have suffered like the millions of animals he killed. And I wish I could have kicked him full in the balls. And then done it again.
b
d.maggit
mrmaggit said:
The "inventor of Myxymatosis" died last year, had an obituary in the Telegraph, and apparently he also created a vaccine for an important human virus, whose name escapes me, at the moment.
I could have forgiven him for the vaccine, but to deliberately cause the suffering I've seen, on far too many times, at close quarters, which even killed a very special pet rabbit of mine, no way. I wish he could have suffered like the millions of animals he killed. And I wish I could have kicked him full in the balls. And then done it again.
bd.
maggit
Yeah its horrible, we lost 9 rabbits to it last year, 5 of which i shot myself, 4 were babies.I could have forgiven him for the vaccine, but to deliberately cause the suffering I've seen, on far too many times, at close quarters, which even killed a very special pet rabbit of mine, no way. I wish he could have suffered like the millions of animals he killed. And I wish I could have kicked him full in the balls. And then done it again.
b
d.maggit
Myxi was brought into europe byt a french man, his intention was to introduce it onto his land to control his rabbit problem, needless to say, it spread like wild fire from there. The spanish are working on a full cure for it, and i think they are succeeding to a point, the myxi has wiped out the rabbits in spain, which in turn is wiping out the Iberian Lynx.
tit with snakes said:
I dont want to always be negative, however, its always worth remembering that even with the myxi and vhd jabs, they can still get the disease, the jabs are to give them a head start on fighting, unfortunately there is no cure for either!
On a happier note, am glad its all come together, and thats a good price too, i cant check now, but did that include the myxi jab??
No, I need to pop back in a few weeks for that. No idea how much it will be.On a happier note, am glad its all come together, and thats a good price too, i cant check now, but did that include the myxi jab??
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