My dog attacking other dogs!
Discussion
My Dog has over the last few months or so started getting very grumpy with other dogs while we are out and even worse if anyone comes around with another dog.
Initially she just ignores the other dogs and if they do the same all is fine. The problem seems to be if an over friendly dog or bouncy pup comes over to her she will show them her teeth and give them a warning growl. If the keep pestering her she will snap at them and sometimes chase them off.
So far this hasn’t caused any problems as most owners of the other dogs just say that 'there dog will learn', and similar comments.
So far it’s not gone any further than snapping but I am worried that one day she may go too far, or the dog she growls at doesn’t back down and a fight breaks out. Also I’m worried a dog owner will get upset.
She gets plenty of exercise and lots of variety with walks and play; however this behavior is worse close to home or places we visit regularly. So I’m wondering if it may be a territory thing? She is always the dominant dog when she plays with dogs she knows well so this may have something to do with it too.
Anyone have any advice?
Initially she just ignores the other dogs and if they do the same all is fine. The problem seems to be if an over friendly dog or bouncy pup comes over to her she will show them her teeth and give them a warning growl. If the keep pestering her she will snap at them and sometimes chase them off.
So far this hasn’t caused any problems as most owners of the other dogs just say that 'there dog will learn', and similar comments.
So far it’s not gone any further than snapping but I am worried that one day she may go too far, or the dog she growls at doesn’t back down and a fight breaks out. Also I’m worried a dog owner will get upset.
She gets plenty of exercise and lots of variety with walks and play; however this behavior is worse close to home or places we visit regularly. So I’m wondering if it may be a territory thing? She is always the dominant dog when she plays with dogs she knows well so this may have something to do with it too.
Anyone have any advice?
When you say initially she ignores them - are you sure about that?
A lot of people who think their dogs are socialised don't seem to notice that their dog isn't "ignoring", but stiff as a board with muscles tensed.
Snapping and acting dominating sounds like she's very scared. She probably doesn't trust other dogs and feels she has to prove something or else they'll "get her".
If you have any friends with calm and relaxed dogs, see if they'll help you to socialise yours by introducing them very slowly. Start by walking one dog each (on lead) far away from each other. Very gradually get closer together until you're side by side (but not close enough for either dog to be intimidated). Give a correction ("no", tug on lead, prod with fingers, or whatever you prefer) any time your dog stops paying attention to you and tries to snap her head round to see the other dog.
A few weeks/months of very slow introductions like that and the aim would be to walk them together and have your dog relaxed enough that she can ignore the other one.
We had to do that to introduce our old German Shepherd to a new puppy, and it worked 100% (but not overnight - it was over a month before we could have them in the same room together). They're now best friends and the German Shepherd has improved with all other dogs too.
A lot of people who think their dogs are socialised don't seem to notice that their dog isn't "ignoring", but stiff as a board with muscles tensed.
Snapping and acting dominating sounds like she's very scared. She probably doesn't trust other dogs and feels she has to prove something or else they'll "get her".
If you have any friends with calm and relaxed dogs, see if they'll help you to socialise yours by introducing them very slowly. Start by walking one dog each (on lead) far away from each other. Very gradually get closer together until you're side by side (but not close enough for either dog to be intimidated). Give a correction ("no", tug on lead, prod with fingers, or whatever you prefer) any time your dog stops paying attention to you and tries to snap her head round to see the other dog.
A few weeks/months of very slow introductions like that and the aim would be to walk them together and have your dog relaxed enough that she can ignore the other one.
We had to do that to introduce our old German Shepherd to a new puppy, and it worked 100% (but not overnight - it was over a month before we could have them in the same room together). They're now best friends and the German Shepherd has improved with all other dogs too.
She isnt stiff or scared! she just carries on playing chasing ball, playing in water ect. It is when the other dog tries to play, or if a pup tries to lick her face! Then she does what I have described! She is well socialised and will play with dogs she knows well and loves going to kennels where she will play with the other dogs, although she is always the dominant one.
Jasandjules said:
Is it dogs or b
hes? Does she give any warning?
She does give a warning. She will initialy ignore them and just carry on, then she will move away from them, next will be teeth showing, followed by a growl then a snap! I dont think she does it more with dogs or bhes? Does she give any warning? hes, but pushy puppies she really doesnt like!Jasandjules said:
Was she fine previously? Has anything changed to your recollection that might have sparked this off i.e. you think oh she was fine until we got the baby/puppy/moved etc..?!?
Is it just puppies? Will she play with other dogs? Has she been to the vets recently?
Nothing has changed that I can think of! she has always been a bit grumpy though! She will often play chase with other dogs where they chase each other around a field. She plays with my inlaws lab but if they both go for the same ball my dog will make sure she gets it! It definatley happens more with pups because normally it never goes behond the growl as most dog will just back off at that point. It is worse if a pup comes running up to her and tries to lick her face!Is it just puppies? Will she play with other dogs? Has she been to the vets recently?
MonkeyMatt said:
Nothing has changed that I can think of! she has always been a bit grumpy though! She will often play chase with other dogs where they chase each other around a field. She plays with my inlaws lab but if they both go for the same ball my dog will make sure she gets it! It definatley happens more with pups because normally it never goes behond the growl as most dog will just back off at that point. It is worse if a pup comes running up to her and tries to lick her face!
When you say she makes sure she gets it, I take that to mean that she becomes aggressive about it. It sounds to me a bit like a dominance issue then i.e. she is in charge and wants to ensure every other dog knows it. Hard to say much really without seeing her "in action" and her body language etc..
Is she spayed? (I suspect not)
Jasandjules said:
When you say she makes sure she gets it, I take that to mean that she becomes aggressive about it.
It sounds to me a bit like a dominance issue then i.e. she is in charge and wants to ensure every other dog knows it. Hard to say much really without seeing her "in action" and her body language etc..
Is she spayed? (I suspect not)
She is spayed and I think you are right about her wanting to be in charge! I guess dogs being pack animals and there will alaways be one that is in charge of the others! Just to add a bit more she does listen to my commands when I call her over and tell her to stop, so it isnt that she is poorly trained as she is normally a very well behaved dog apart from the occasional barking!It sounds to me a bit like a dominance issue then i.e. she is in charge and wants to ensure every other dog knows it. Hard to say much really without seeing her "in action" and her body language etc..
Is she spayed? (I suspect not)
MonkeyMatt said:
She is just over 3 years old. She is a Spinger Collie Cross. I also meant to say that she barks a lot if people come to house and a hatred of the postman!
Thought it.might just be getting grumpy with age. That has happened to one of ours.Having said that if she is giving warnings and not looking for trouble, the ther dogs need a lesson in dog body language.
desolate said:
Thought it.might just be getting grumpy with age. That has happened to one of ours.
Having said that if she is giving warnings and not looking for trouble, the ther dogs need a lesson in dog body language.
That’s what I thought! She definitely doesn’t look for trouble and gives plenty of warning! It just gets quite embarrassing when a wee pup runs off yelping! I think she must just be a grumpy bossy bugger like me Having said that if she is giving warnings and not looking for trouble, the ther dogs need a lesson in dog body language.
MonkeyMatt said:
That’s what I thought! She definitely doesn’t look for trouble and gives plenty of warning! It just gets quite embarrassing when a wee pup runs off yelping! I think she must just be a grumpy bossy bugger like me
I can sympathise - I've got an older dog ( 11 years old Cairn), who's not a puppy/ in yer face dog lover. In this case he will "put them in their place". A dog walking up, sniffing & lamp posting, will be welcomed. He can't strand Staff- he's been attacked( and will attack as the best form of defence ,out of nervous aggression), he is fussy with collies & spaniels, BUT is no problem with other terriers. Most labs, he gets on with ,anything bigger- he's got to prove he's the boss. But the funny thing is that although he won't tolerate GS, He's got three massive GS as mates. They wander round the field sniffing at everything ,with Toby taking them on in a P contest. He has been known to tell them where to get off - and the strange thing is that these gentle giants listen to him . There's also three Pyrenean Mountain dogs ,who also give ground to him . How is she if there's no ball around? Is the snapping just one more step up the "leave me alone scale"?
My Weim' got a bit like this, both when another dog got to close when while playing ball and too quick to escalate the warnings when dogs didn't take the hint that they were going too far. It started at about 18mths/2yrs old as he became an adult dog. At 40kg of muscle there's not a lot that could stand up to him and fortunatly his bite reflex was well enough controled that pinning another dog down was as far as he'd go.
I combated it by initially taking his ball out of the equation when other dogs were around and slowly reintroducing it with dogs that I/he knew weren't interested in it. Now he usually brings the ball soon after another dog shows interest. I also slipped his lead on when meeting dogs or ones I/he knew/expected to be too inquisative, untill afer the greeting and then let him off if all was calm...ish. He gradually improved. Now if dogs do get to playfull or dominant for his liking he holds at "fk off before I kick your head in!" To be fair to him he's now more confident and usually willing to just let it go; Lets the other dog see how big he is with a "Don't make me laugh!" look on his face. It's taken a year and there's still room for improvement. He knows my tone of voice thatmeans he needs to step back and gets a reward EVERTIME he meets another dog and is friendly, especially when they aren't but he ignores it.
It's a fine balancing act. If you don't allow the interaction you can't teach them to behave differently and they won't improve (how many dogs do you meet that are always on the lead and dragged away because "She dosen't like other dogs" while desperatly trying to have a go at yours?) so completely avoiding the situation (IMHO) isn't an option, but you need to step in before things escalate.
As for puppies; They have to learn the scale of reponse, so as long as she stops once the point is made I wouldn't worry about it. It's the puppies that are never allowed to make mistakes to learn by, that cause problems later.
My Weim' got a bit like this, both when another dog got to close when while playing ball and too quick to escalate the warnings when dogs didn't take the hint that they were going too far. It started at about 18mths/2yrs old as he became an adult dog. At 40kg of muscle there's not a lot that could stand up to him and fortunatly his bite reflex was well enough controled that pinning another dog down was as far as he'd go.
I combated it by initially taking his ball out of the equation when other dogs were around and slowly reintroducing it with dogs that I/he knew weren't interested in it. Now he usually brings the ball soon after another dog shows interest. I also slipped his lead on when meeting dogs or ones I/he knew/expected to be too inquisative, untill afer the greeting and then let him off if all was calm...ish. He gradually improved. Now if dogs do get to playfull or dominant for his liking he holds at "f
k off before I kick your head in!" To be fair to him he's now more confident and usually willing to just let it go; Lets the other dog see how big he is with a "Don't make me laugh!" look on his face. It's taken a year and there's still room for improvement. He knows my tone of voice thatmeans he needs to step back and gets a reward EVERTIME he meets another dog and is friendly, especially when they aren't but he ignores it.It's a fine balancing act. If you don't allow the interaction you can't teach them to behave differently and they won't improve (how many dogs do you meet that are always on the lead and dragged away because "She dosen't like other dogs" while desperatly trying to have a go at yours?) so completely avoiding the situation (IMHO) isn't an option, but you need to step in before things escalate.
As for puppies; They have to learn the scale of reponse, so as long as she stops once the point is made I wouldn't worry about it. It's the puppies that are never allowed to make mistakes to learn by, that cause problems later.
At the very least you need to be in full control of her regardless of her being either of a dominant or anxious type. When out in public the strength of your recall can have a big impact of the outcome of many meetings with other dogs. Being able to call her away from virtually any situation will be a huge plus for you and should reduce the incidents of poor behaviour. Allowing her to continue to behave in this way and putting it down to 'just her way' or being 'stubborn' or 'getting older' are not good enough to resolve it. She has at three years yet to fully develop, and so I encourage you to return to some basic training to improve your control of her, which in turn will greatly help to reduce this behaviour you describe.
The worst thing that could happen is that it becomes worse, fights tend to lead to more fights and it can become an ever decreasing cycle of behaviour. You'll need to step in to make it work the other way to your and hers benefit.
So what to do? Well I would place a long training line on her of 9-10 metres as the ones found in pet stores. She is exercised on this in 'doggy' areas. Depending on how likely she is to show poor behaviour I would hold the line end first of all. I would set about a recall polishing programme whereby you are beginning to call her away as practice from different things as they occur. Ultimately you want to be in a position whereby she will come to you regardless of the distraction. Carrying and offering a high value treat food can make all the difference here so think along the lines of chicken, ham, sausage or liver cake. I made a short video for the recipe a few weeks back here: http://youtu.be/nXzBAFNT_zo You just might be amazed with the effect of liver cake
The recall process is pretty simple. Call the dog with a bright,clear voice. use the line to bring her to you if she ignores you at first. ask for a sit upon return. Stand on or hold the line to prevent early running off. Reward and treat calmly but happily. release dog when you're ready. Repeat. Repeat a lot! repetition will create a habit that goes so deep into her mind that she'll return without thinking later on...which is what you want.
I have more in depth notes on my PC re the recall if you'd like them. As a PH'er you're welcome to them.
Well sometimes you just might decide to walk away with your recalled dog if you think she can't cope with the attention of another dog. If however you think you can manage her in a social situation then walk up, be relaxed and let it happen being there to supervise any unwanted developments.
The long line will be used along the lines of: Hold for 1 week, allow to drag for 4 weeks, then either remove in one go or gradually. Each step is dependent upon your dog responding well before you move onto the next step.
Hope that gives you some thoughts to work on. Good luck, keep us posted.
Nick
The worst thing that could happen is that it becomes worse, fights tend to lead to more fights and it can become an ever decreasing cycle of behaviour. You'll need to step in to make it work the other way to your and hers benefit.
So what to do? Well I would place a long training line on her of 9-10 metres as the ones found in pet stores. She is exercised on this in 'doggy' areas. Depending on how likely she is to show poor behaviour I would hold the line end first of all. I would set about a recall polishing programme whereby you are beginning to call her away as practice from different things as they occur. Ultimately you want to be in a position whereby she will come to you regardless of the distraction. Carrying and offering a high value treat food can make all the difference here so think along the lines of chicken, ham, sausage or liver cake. I made a short video for the recipe a few weeks back here: http://youtu.be/nXzBAFNT_zo You just might be amazed with the effect of liver cake
The recall process is pretty simple. Call the dog with a bright,clear voice. use the line to bring her to you if she ignores you at first. ask for a sit upon return. Stand on or hold the line to prevent early running off. Reward and treat calmly but happily. release dog when you're ready. Repeat. Repeat a lot! repetition will create a habit that goes so deep into her mind that she'll return without thinking later on...which is what you want.
I have more in depth notes on my PC re the recall if you'd like them. As a PH'er you're welcome to them.
Well sometimes you just might decide to walk away with your recalled dog if you think she can't cope with the attention of another dog. If however you think you can manage her in a social situation then walk up, be relaxed and let it happen being there to supervise any unwanted developments.
The long line will be used along the lines of: Hold for 1 week, allow to drag for 4 weeks, then either remove in one go or gradually. Each step is dependent upon your dog responding well before you move onto the next step.
Hope that gives you some thoughts to work on. Good luck, keep us posted.
Nick
Thanks Nick! Im definatley think about some form of further training with her. AT the moment the recall is pretty good and it always seams to happen a fairly close quaters with the other dogs coming over to us rather than her approaching them. If in fact she ever approaches another dog it never ends in growls and snapping only if the come up to her. I think what I will start to do is when I see another dog approaching I will call her over make her sit and treat her for good behaviour.
MonkeyMatt said:
Thanks Nick! Im definatley think about some form of further training with her. AT the moment the recall is pretty good and it always seams to happen a fairly close quaters with the other dogs coming over to us rather than her approaching them. If in fact she ever approaches another dog it never ends in growls and snapping only if the come up to her. I think what I will start to do is when I see another dog approaching I will call her over make her sit and treat her for good behaviour.
Yes. Now what you might succeed with re your last sentence is to feed her throughout that process of her being with you. This depends on her appetite...does she like food? If yes, then refer back to my notes re the use of food. Ideally she'll be sooo engrossed with the food (you might have to feed more than one dog, lol) she will melt into that moment. It can be a good way to change the events as they unfold whilst you feed her. Your food must be of a high value for that to work however. A shorter trailing line would still be useful, as you could subtly stand on that to stop her zipping off from the at your feet and being fed position. Increasing your control of her remains very important.Go for it.
Nick.
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