Advocate alternatives?
Discussion
Hi,
When we took Logan for his second jab the vet gave us some advocate. Tonight i fished a half eaten snail out of his mouth so was just reading about it so I could give him it tomorrow. Was due it Tuesday anyway.
Good job I did . Read plenty if warnings if giving this to blue heelers, basically all hearding dogs.. Because the active ingredient cause neurological problems in them.
Logan is part old englishnsheep dog part dingo so according to the manufacturers website it seems people are correct
"This product contains moxidectin (a macrocyclic lactone), therefore special care should be taken with Collies, Old English Sheepdogs and related breeds or crossbreeds, to correctly administer the product as described under section 4.9; in particular, oral uptake by the recipient and/or other animals in close contact should be prevented."
Lots of people reporting issues with this and hearding dogs. Having fits and very scary stories.
Not very happy for two resins the above which is the most important and also she told me that pancure which is what we had been using does not treat lungworm. Well according to the website it's treats all three types when advocate only treats one type.
So do I just go get some pancure from somewhere because I'm now scared s
tless of giving this advocate.
When we took Logan for his second jab the vet gave us some advocate. Tonight i fished a half eaten snail out of his mouth so was just reading about it so I could give him it tomorrow. Was due it Tuesday anyway.
Good job I did . Read plenty if warnings if giving this to blue heelers, basically all hearding dogs.. Because the active ingredient cause neurological problems in them.
Logan is part old englishnsheep dog part dingo so according to the manufacturers website it seems people are correct
"This product contains moxidectin (a macrocyclic lactone), therefore special care should be taken with Collies, Old English Sheepdogs and related breeds or crossbreeds, to correctly administer the product as described under section 4.9; in particular, oral uptake by the recipient and/or other animals in close contact should be prevented."
Lots of people reporting issues with this and hearding dogs. Having fits and very scary stories.
Not very happy for two resins the above which is the most important and also she told me that pancure which is what we had been using does not treat lungworm. Well according to the website it's treats all three types when advocate only treats one type.
So do I just go get some pancure from somewhere because I'm now scared s
tless of giving this advocate.Edited by Pesty on Monday 26th August 00:48
Ask them about Milbemax, it's just had the ok to be used as an aid for the prevention for Lungworm I believe. This is not as good as Advocate though so does still mean there is a risk of a dog getting lungworm.
For reassurance we have prescribed for all collie types no adverse affects yet.
Ivermectin is the big no no drug for Collies. The active ingredient is of the same family hence the warnings but I can honestly say we've had no adverse reactions (and yes we do discuss with clients first!)
At the moment I think Panacur is only recognised as a treatment in the diagnosis of lungworm, not the prevention. Panacur does not provide any protection of mange either.
For reassurance we have prescribed for all collie types no adverse affects yet.
Ivermectin is the big no no drug for Collies. The active ingredient is of the same family hence the warnings but I can honestly say we've had no adverse reactions (and yes we do discuss with clients first!)
At the moment I think Panacur is only recognised as a treatment in the diagnosis of lungworm, not the prevention. Panacur does not provide any protection of mange either.
Edited by bexVN on Monday 26th August 03:28
Edited by bexVN on Monday 26th August 03:36
Edited by bexVN on Monday 26th August 03:37
Thanks
Reading about lungworm it seems its mainly south of England and Wales.
( one scary website kept saying its found everywhere and a growing problem, kept talking about fatalities, I then noticed that the website was a huge advert for advocate but the address was just lungworm not bayer) in fact every page I'm reding about lungworm is just copy paste straight from that bayer website. Vets pages are using he same pictures.
Is this overblown Do you see many lungworm cases?
I'll go get some beer traps today.
It seems the snails have to have been feeding on a worm infested dogs poo and be ingested where they then travel to the lungs. Seems like a slim chance.
Reading about lungworm it seems its mainly south of England and Wales.
( one scary website kept saying its found everywhere and a growing problem, kept talking about fatalities, I then noticed that the website was a huge advert for advocate but the address was just lungworm not bayer) in fact every page I'm reding about lungworm is just copy paste straight from that bayer website. Vets pages are using he same pictures.
Is this overblown Do you see many lungworm cases?
I'll go get some beer traps today.
It seems the snails have to have been feeding on a worm infested dogs poo and be ingested where they then travel to the lungs. Seems like a slim chance.
Edited by Pesty on Monday 26th August 07:47
5years ago I'd have said it was not a condition too worry about but there have been studies proving a growing problem. BBC breakfast had a chap on from Exeter University discussing it on Friday (you could probably find the interview on the website) the reason he's studying them is we know little of their lives but he was aware of a growing problem of Lungworm in the domestic dog. A dog was diagnosed in my locum practice the other day, he was a poorly dog. They do respond to treatment but it can take a while and for some dogs it can be fatal due to the damage the parasite can cause.
If I had a pup I would use advocate as I remember how much if a snail eater our Jmy was as a pup.
I don"t push it so much for older ddogs unless they are stick carriers.
Foxes are still the maim victims.
Ny law the page by Bayer has to be factually correct and they are only allowed to educate not promote their product,
It's still not an everyday condition that we see but we have had a couple cases diagnosed before real symptoms show.
I'm Bristol based so it is of concern here, up your way I don't know how common it is.
If I had a pup I would use advocate as I remember how much if a snail eater our Jmy was as a pup.
I don"t push it so much for older ddogs unless they are stick carriers.
Foxes are still the maim victims.
Ny law the page by Bayer has to be factually correct and they are only allowed to educate not promote their product,
It's still not an everyday condition that we see but we have had a couple cases diagnosed before real symptoms show.
I'm Bristol based so it is of concern here, up your way I don't know how common it is.
Edited by bexVN on Monday 26th August 09:07
Thanks bex
We were told by the breeder to use panacur at 8 and 12 weeks which we were going to do until our vet said use advocate.
Now we were to use panacur on Tuesday. Panacur is 91% effective against lungworm in one treatment advocate 85% in one treatment
It seems its accidental oral ingestion of advocate that is the issue although those blogs I read last night said otherwise.
So does this sound ok. Give him the panacur as we planned and see the vet and express our concerns over advocate?
As far as i I know he's only partially chewed one snail. I've been inspecting the garden and not seen any before.
Bloody stressful careing for a puppy.
From advocate website
Ivermectin-sensitive breeds( which Logan apparently is)
Work carried out to determine the safety of accidental oral uptake of Advocate in ivermectin-sensitive breeds of dog revealed that 10% of the unit dose given orally resulted in no adverse effects, while 40% resulted in severe neurological signs.
As with any product containing macrocyclic lactones, special care should be taken with Collies, Old English Sheepdogs and related breeds or crossbreeds, to correctly administer the product. In particular, oral uptake by the recipient and/or other animals should be avoided.
We were told by the breeder to use panacur at 8 and 12 weeks which we were going to do until our vet said use advocate.
Now we were to use panacur on Tuesday. Panacur is 91% effective against lungworm in one treatment advocate 85% in one treatment
It seems its accidental oral ingestion of advocate that is the issue although those blogs I read last night said otherwise.
So does this sound ok. Give him the panacur as we planned and see the vet and express our concerns over advocate?
As far as i I know he's only partially chewed one snail. I've been inspecting the garden and not seen any before.
Bloody stressful careing for a puppy.
From advocate website
Ivermectin-sensitive breeds( which Logan apparently is)
Work carried out to determine the safety of accidental oral uptake of Advocate in ivermectin-sensitive breeds of dog revealed that 10% of the unit dose given orally resulted in no adverse effects, while 40% resulted in severe neurological signs.
As with any product containing macrocyclic lactones, special care should be taken with Collies, Old English Sheepdogs and related breeds or crossbreeds, to correctly administer the product. In particular, oral uptake by the recipient and/or other animals should be avoided.
Yes I know the data.
We have a rough collie breeder who looked into it carefully yet she is still happy to use it.
We advise panacur at 8weeks as a 5 day course. It is not enough to do a one off dose. Then start on advocate at 12weeks.
The one older dog that seemed to react to Advocate was a German Pointer and that was more just being a bit o/colour and upset tummy.
Go with what you feel happiest, we've used it on hundreds puppies of all breeds and no problems, however we weigh them each time to ensure accurate dosing which is also key
Eta - I am pretty sure that I'm right in saying that Advocate is the only product licensed to prevent Lungworm but Panacur is for treating cases not preventing.
The lungworm is Anglostronglyus Vasorum
We have a rough collie breeder who looked into it carefully yet she is still happy to use it.
We advise panacur at 8weeks as a 5 day course. It is not enough to do a one off dose. Then start on advocate at 12weeks.
The one older dog that seemed to react to Advocate was a German Pointer and that was more just being a bit o/colour and upset tummy.
Go with what you feel happiest, we've used it on hundreds puppies of all breeds and no problems, however we weigh them each time to ensure accurate dosing which is also key
Eta - I am pretty sure that I'm right in saying that Advocate is the only product licensed to prevent Lungworm but Panacur is for treating cases not preventing.
The lungworm is Anglostronglyus Vasorum
Edited by bexVN on Monday 26th August 09:42
one thing you should be aware of is that avermectins including ivermectin are safe when given at the correct dose. Ivermectin is licensed and safe for use even in collies in the US but it is recognised that the dose rate is vital. Most of the adverse reactions are associated with incorrect dosing or inappropriate administration. As has been said, if you are unhappy with any medication from your vet, then you should say and ask for more information. I would not have any issue giving or using advocate to any animal under my care but that doesn't mean all owners want it to be used.
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