Vaccinations

[S6 Devil]

This may be opening a can of worms but how often do dogs need vaccinations?

I get a reminder from the vet every year and have always had him vaccinated annually.

Is there a need for this or are drug companies/vets promoting annual boosters for profit?

Interesting article arguing against annual boosters: http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/DVD%20Info...

[otolith]

That site looks like a truckload of woo to me.

[bexVN]

We don't vaccinate against everything every year.

Protocol is generally as follows

Puppies vaccinated at 8&10 weeks 2 full vaccs. Older dogs for first time vaccs 1 full & 1 part vaccs (2 weeks apart) some breeds can have extra Parvo vaccs at 16-20 wks (not something our practice advises ubless high risk breed ie the black and tans and we often advise blood test to ck titre levels first)

1st booster is a full one so distemper hardpad parvovirus Parainfluenza Leptospirosis (both types)

Following 2 yrs the vaccines are just against Parainfluenza and both Leptospirosis as these are bacterial so vaccine titre levels can only be effective for this long

Then it's a full booster again, this every 3 yr cycle will continue throughout the dogs life, unless changes are advised at some point.

We have had a couple people ask for titre level testing instead if vaccinating which is fine but is costly (ins won't cover it) and they were right on the cusp of the levels shown to be enough to provide protection.

So believe it or not though vaccine companies are out to make money they do constantly monitor and will advise on best practice to try and avoid over vaccinating.

Some unvaccinated digs get away with it due to herd protection but if increasing numbers of that 'herd' stop being vaccinated that protection will drop and these diseases will flare up again.

Parvo even now still has its outbreaks and it is mutating so this is also something vaccs companies monitor.

I'm glad to say I've never seen a distemper case which was a big problem just 50-60 years ago, due to good vaccination protocols, find it hard to see how anyone can argue with that, esp when you see how horrible distemper id.

Edited by bexVN on Monday 30th December 08:04

[jeeperz0]

good reply Bex.

[Jasandjules]

Get the dog titre tested and you will if it still carries the antibodies.

Personally we've had significant and immediate adverse reactions to vaccines. Not as bad as our friend who lost their puppy, but that is another issue.

[S6 Devil]

Thanks. I'll check what he has had for the past 3 years and talk to the vet to see what he says.

Edited by S6 Devil on Thursday 2nd January 19:50

[Jasandjules]

Most vets (though not all) will suggest you "boost". Ask them for the scientific evidence to suggest that

1. Vaccinations work
2. Boosters do anything

[bexVN]

Jasandjules said:

Most vets (though not all) will suggest you "boost". Ask them for the scientific evidence to suggest that

1. Vaccinations work
2. Boosters do anything

That's a bit harsh. Do you really expect vets to have scientific data too hand on everything they use right at their fingertips.

A good vet will keep upto date on scientific papers published and follow guidelines they are advised to by the Royal College. They can't just make up their own protocols.

People stopped vaccinating against measels because they didn't believe it worked etc and then we had a huge outbreak last year. Vaccination protocols do work but I agree they need to be regularly assessed and reviewed to ensure we limit excessive vaccinating.

[otolith]

I wouldn't think any vet who has studied the science of immunology would find it hard to defend vaccination.

I must admit, I find the association between vaccination scepticism and homeopathy credulity exemplified by that website utterly baffling. Anyone here had smallpox recently?

[Jasandjules]

otolith said:

I wouldn't think any vet who has studied the science of immunology would find it hard to defend vaccination.

Possibly.

But if you look at what for example Defra say about Kennel Cough and the vaccine

http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/pdf/WSAVAguidelines.pd...

Here is a hint

"Canine respiratory disease complex (kennel
cough) is not a vaccine-preventable
disease and the vaccine should only be
used to help manage the disease"

[bexVN]

Jasandjules said:

otolith said:

I wouldn't think any vet who has studied the science of immunology would find it hard to defend vaccination.

Possibly.

But if you look at what for example Defra say about Kennel Cough and the vaccine

http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/pdf/WSAVAguidelines.pd...

Here is a hint


"Canine respiratory disease complex (kennel
cough) is not a vaccine-preventable
disease and the vaccine should only be
used to help manage the disease"

It's kennels that insist on kennel cough vaccine, we don't advise it unless the clients have to for the kennels.

[S6 Devil]

I spoke to the vet. They have the same protocol as your practice BexVN. He is due a booster vaccination against Leptospira and Parainflueiza (Pi) and
will be booked in for his boosters in the next few days. Thanks.

[Thevet]

I have seen many cases of parvo and distemper over the years, I lost my "first" dog to distemper just after I qualified, GSD handed in by police for assessment, I booked it for me to keep, but had to go back to the council kennels for a week in case it was claimed, during that week it took distemper and died. A horrible experience that I have always tried to avoid repeating. I have never seen a single case of even a moderate vaccine reaction in a cat or dog in nearly 30 years of practice, doesn't mean they don't happen but they are seriously uncommon. The suggestion that vaccines cause so many ills sounds remarkably like the MMR scare, and look how the measles epidemic has now spread due to increased levels of vulnerable kids. I would confidently walk any of my dogs through a parvo/lepto/distemper contaminated kennel knowing they will not take any of these diseases, proven by years of inadvertent tests. I have also used kennel cough vaccines in my own dogs and have never had a case of KC in them despite the dogs meeting other confirmed cases. I only use it when exposure is likely (ie kennels) but although not perfect,it is very good.
Asking for antibody levels to be assessed is perfectly good sense but a lot more hassle and expense than adopting a sensible vaccination regime as given above. Anyone can decide not to vaccinate, but if the proportion of immunologically naive animals increases, we will see an increase in cases which will then seed more infection into the environment creating more new cases, to me that is a risk far greater than something I have never seen.
Parvo/Distemper/Hepatitis(only ever seen one case of adenovirus hepatitis)/leptosprosis are all potential killers that are completely 100% avoidable by vaccination.

[Jasandjules]

Thevet said:

Parvo/Distemper/Hepatitis(only ever seen one case of adenovirus hepatitis)/leptosprosis are all potential killers that are completely 100% avoidable by vaccination.

Sorry but a few vaccinated dogs have died of parvo.

[Thevet]

Hard to prove, but certain breeds (like one I've got) do need an additional primary booster, hence the reason it's given. What I was trying to get across, was that the risks of increasing numbers of people not vaccinating their dogs because of rather over-played tell of disaster from vacccination, is far more risky than keeping the immunity of the population strong. I have still never met or heard first hand of any reaction to a vaccine in dogs that gave me any cause for concern. Nor have I ever met anyone who has had a properly vaccinated dog take P/L/H/D. I would not say this if I was at all concerned about giving the vaccine for these diseases to my dogs or anyone else's. There will never be 100% safety when you stick a hypodermic needle into a living organism, but it is unbelievably undeniably safer than the diseases mentioned. Thankfully I no longer work in the middle of a city where you still get significant amounts of D/H/P due to poor levels of immunity/vaccination combined with higher dog density, improving vaccine uptake will benefit dogs and people alike.
Immunity is so much better than over-use of medicines, it's nature's way of protecting us, and I don't want to risk my dogs' lives by not using a vaccine but trying to expose them to a life-threatening challenge. I've said enough, I hope you will all be happy with your choices, I know I am.