Would you ride an Elephant?
Discussion
Had an argument with my Mum last night.
She's off on one of her uber jollies around asia and I jokingly said "just don't ride any elephants" assuming she would be aware of how gross this industry is and how western demand fuels the illegal capture of the animals.
She wasn't.
She seemed to think it was fine because they were 'rescued' from logging and had been assured by her tour operator (
) of the ethics - failing to make and obvious link between supply and demand in my mind.
Anyway it got heated and she flat refused to see any harm in it at all.
Curious to know others views on this, seems such an obvious 'no no' to me.
She's off on one of her uber jollies around asia and I jokingly said "just don't ride any elephants" assuming she would be aware of how gross this industry is and how western demand fuels the illegal capture of the animals.
She wasn't.
She seemed to think it was fine because they were 'rescued' from logging and had been assured by her tour operator (
) of the ethics - failing to make and obvious link between supply and demand in my mind.Anyway it got heated and she flat refused to see any harm in it at all.
Curious to know others views on this, seems such an obvious 'no no' to me.
I am with you all the way, except one thing. What would happen tp these elephants if they weren't used for the tourist trade esp if they are ex loggers.
Sometimes it's compromise that is needed, ensure the highest level of welfare for them would count a long way towards this industry being ok in my eyes. Support the animals and the people trying to earn a living.
In a perfect world these elephants should never be worked in any industry but it isn't sadly and realistically never will be but a whole lot more can be done for their welfare. Would be nice to think their work life would be limited to so many years then be able to retire into a protected reserve. Sort of thing Born Free help with.
So no I wouldn't ride an elephant, as none of the above can be guaranteed.
Sometimes it's compromise that is needed, ensure the highest level of welfare for them would count a long way towards this industry being ok in my eyes. Support the animals and the people trying to earn a living.
In a perfect world these elephants should never be worked in any industry but it isn't sadly and realistically never will be but a whole lot more can be done for their welfare. Would be nice to think their work life would be limited to so many years then be able to retire into a protected reserve. Sort of thing Born Free help with.
So no I wouldn't ride an elephant, as none of the above can be guaranteed.
Edited by bexVN on Friday 3rd January 11:51
bexVN said:
I am with you all the way, except one thing. What would happen tp these elephants if they weren't used for the tourist trade esp if they are ex loggers.
Sometimes it's compromise that is needed, ensure the highest level of welfare for them would count a long way towards this industry being ok in my eyes. Support the animals and the people trying to earn a living.
In a perfect world these elephants should never be worked in any industry but it isn't sadly and realistically never will be but a whole lot more can be done for their welfare. Would be nice to think their work life would be limited to so many years then be able to retire into a protected reserve. Sort of thing Born Free help with.
So no I wouldn't ride an elephant, as none of the above can be guaranteed.
Agree. There are places that rescue the animals and they live out their years grazing and tourists can come and VIEW them doing so. I think that is as good a compromise as you will get...Sometimes it's compromise that is needed, ensure the highest level of welfare for them would count a long way towards this industry being ok in my eyes. Support the animals and the people trying to earn a living.
In a perfect world these elephants should never be worked in any industry but it isn't sadly and realistically never will be but a whole lot more can be done for their welfare. Would be nice to think their work life would be limited to so many years then be able to retire into a protected reserve. Sort of thing Born Free help with.
So no I wouldn't ride an elephant, as none of the above can be guaranteed.
Edited by bexVN on Friday 3rd January 11:51
As long as people want to RIDE them then the grotesque process of 'breaking' the animal will continue. The young being ripped from the mother and beaten into submission etc etc
As soon as demand for rides dries up the illegal industry would struggle, the need for breaking would deminish and so on...
Fittster said:
Can't really see a problem. An elephant looks physically capable of giving a ride without being harmed, so assuming they are being well treated by the owner what's the issue?
Ok, maybe this isn't such a widely known issue as I thought it was. An animal the size of an Elephant cannot be controlled by simple physical means. It needs to be controlled psychologically and from a very early age. The process is called Phajaan and involves ripping a young elephant from it's mother and beating it into a state of submission. Being intelligent animals this can take many weeks of brutal treatment. Watch a video of a young elephant with tears streaming down it's face calling out in distress as a bullhorn is driven into the top of it's head. ALL the elephants that people ride have had this done to them!!
http://journals.worldnomads.com/responsible-travel...
It's not the physical well being as much as the mental wellbeing (by physical I mean the ability to carry people). Elephants are so much more than our servants, they do not deserve a life away from their herd with legs chained 24/7 (most of them will have chained legs) and control established with the use of a sharp prong to stab them with to keep them in check.
Edited by bexVN on Friday 3rd January 12:21
DoubleSix said:
Fittster said:
Can't really see a problem. An elephant looks physically capable of giving a ride without being harmed, so assuming they are being well treated by the owner what's the issue?
Ok, maybe this isn't such a widely known issue as I thought it was. An animal the size of an Elephant cannot be controlled by simple physical means. It needs to be controlled psychologically and from a very early age. The process is called Phajaan and involves ripping a young elephant from it's mother and beating it into a state of submission. Being intelligent animals this can take many weeks of brutal treatment. Watch a video of a young elephant with tears streaming down it's face calling out in distress as a bullhorn is driven into the top of it's head. ALL the elephants that people ride have had this done to them!!
http://journals.worldnomads.com/responsible-travel...
No I wouldn't.
Years ago I was driving along in a tuktuk in Goa and saw an elephant with it's handlers at the side of the road so asked the driver to stop.
Took some photos and "met" the elephant and went on my way.
The next day I was telling one of the Indian lads on the beach about it and he explained how they are treated.
Those photos got torn up.
Years ago I was driving along in a tuktuk in Goa and saw an elephant with it's handlers at the side of the road so asked the driver to stop.
Took some photos and "met" the elephant and went on my way.
The next day I was telling one of the Indian lads on the beach about it and he explained how they are treated.
Those photos got torn up.
I rode one on Thailand whilst on holiday. Due to there not being many people in our group the guide also was happy for me to sit behind the elephants head and not in the seat on its back while he walked on in front.
Do I condone the treatment that's these animals obviously suffer NO, how ever it was an amazing experience that I will always remember.
No different to me then enjoying a prawn cocktail or non free ranged eggs.
Do I condone the treatment that's these animals obviously suffer NO, how ever it was an amazing experience that I will always remember.
No different to me then enjoying a prawn cocktail or non free ranged eggs.
dave0010 said:
I rode one on Thailand whilst on holiday. Due to there not being many people in our group the guide also was happy for me to sit behind the elephants head and not in the seat on its back while he walked on in front.
Do I condone the treatment that's these animals obviously suffer NO, how ever it was an amazing experience that I will always remember.
No different to me then enjoying a prawn cocktail or non free ranged eggs.
I'm sure the elephant remembers the experience with similar affection.Do I condone the treatment that's these animals obviously suffer NO, how ever it was an amazing experience that I will always remember.
No different to me then enjoying a prawn cocktail or non free ranged eggs.
dave0010 said:
I rode one on Thailand whilst on holiday. Due to there not being many people in our group the guide also was happy for me to sit behind the elephants head and not in the seat on its back while he walked on in front.
Do I condone the treatment that's these animals obviously suffer NO, how ever it was an amazing experience that I will always remember.
No different to me then enjoying a prawn cocktail or non free ranged eggs.
You sir, are a fDo I condone the treatment that's these animals obviously suffer NO, how ever it was an amazing experience that I will always remember.
No different to me then enjoying a prawn cocktail or non free ranged eggs.
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