Here I am again, fretting about lameness.
Discussion
My poor little Phoebe who is a lab has been going lame for the past few months. I first noticed it a couple of years ago if she'd REALLY overdone it at the beach - swimming loads, chasing her ball on the sand etc. That night/next day, she'd be lame normally, on her front right leg, occasionally crying when she moved.
This winter it got worse. The only thing that seemed to sort it with any degree of success was lots of rest/short walks, week or two and she'd be better.
I thought it was arthritus but the vet thought she was too young (she's six). Saw a different vet and got liquid (for two weeks)/pills (for another two week) (for arthritus) for her. To be honest, they really haven't made the slightest difference. She is 'marginally' better on the pills.
Also, Chester (the little fat tank that is a cross between a Basset and a pot bellied pig) bites her legs whenever we are going out for a walk. The other week he got her a treat and she was in a bad way for about three days. She was so lame (back legs this time) that I was having to carry her everywhere. It was horrible to watch/see.
Last week, she tripped chasing her ball and seemed to twist her leg. She's been lame on that leg since, but is getting better with rest/short walks.
I really don't understand what's going on with her. She's not the most 'stoic' of dogs and if something hurts, she cries unlike so many that suffer in silence.
In all other ways she's fine. Eating well, happy. Still wants to play ball and gets mega excited whenever we are going out. She hasn't had her pills since last Friday and there seems to be bugger all difference/
Any ideas?
This winter it got worse. The only thing that seemed to sort it with any degree of success was lots of rest/short walks, week or two and she'd be better.
I thought it was arthritus but the vet thought she was too young (she's six). Saw a different vet and got liquid (for two weeks)/pills (for another two week) (for arthritus) for her. To be honest, they really haven't made the slightest difference. She is 'marginally' better on the pills.
Also, Chester (the little fat tank that is a cross between a Basset and a pot bellied pig) bites her legs whenever we are going out for a walk. The other week he got her a treat and she was in a bad way for about three days. She was so lame (back legs this time) that I was having to carry her everywhere. It was horrible to watch/see.
Last week, she tripped chasing her ball and seemed to twist her leg. She's been lame on that leg since, but is getting better with rest/short walks.
I really don't understand what's going on with her. She's not the most 'stoic' of dogs and if something hurts, she cries unlike so many that suffer in silence.
In all other ways she's fine. Eating well, happy. Still wants to play ball and gets mega excited whenever we are going out. She hasn't had her pills since last Friday and there seems to be bugger all difference/
Any ideas?
She's not fat in the slightest, bang on the weight the vet wants her to be at - 24 kilos.
Right front leg again.
Chester doesn't go for her in any aggressive way, it's just a game. He's done it since he was a puppy and Pheebs used to play back. Now she's too obssessed with getting her ball and having a last munch of dry food to keep her going while she's out!
She's perfectly happy (currently lying upside down on the sofa) and I can mess with her legs to my hearts content when she's calm, can't feel a thing wrong. only seems to be a weight bearing issue.
The problem with her as far as the vets goes is: she's utterly terrified of people! She was a rescue and she is really REALLY scared of people so when she goes to the vets she's in a right state before she gets in to see the vet. She doesn't make a murmur no matter what the vet does, just sits there with her eyes bulging and shaking like a leaf. That's why I took her to the other vet (same practice just a lit further away) as Claire knows her from her various operations from a few years back.
She had/has all the symptoms of arthritus but the meds for it don't help.
Right front leg again.
Chester doesn't go for her in any aggressive way, it's just a game. He's done it since he was a puppy and Pheebs used to play back. Now she's too obssessed with getting her ball and having a last munch of dry food to keep her going while she's out!
She's perfectly happy (currently lying upside down on the sofa) and I can mess with her legs to my hearts content when she's calm, can't feel a thing wrong. only seems to be a weight bearing issue.
The problem with her as far as the vets goes is: she's utterly terrified of people! She was a rescue and she is really REALLY scared of people so when she goes to the vets she's in a right state before she gets in to see the vet. She doesn't make a murmur no matter what the vet does, just sits there with her eyes bulging and shaking like a leaf. That's why I took her to the other vet (same practice just a lit further away) as Claire knows her from her various operations from a few years back.
She had/has all the symptoms of arthritus but the meds for it don't help.
I think it has to either be xrays or ft scan to get more info and provide appropriate treatment. You shouldn't need to carry a 6 yr old dog around esp without having a better idea as to why.
Hydrotherapy and physiotherapy may be advised depending on results.
Ongoing lameness should be xrayed (even if she is nervous).
Hydrotherapy and physiotherapy may be advised depending on results.
Ongoing lameness should be xrayed (even if she is nervous).
Xtriple129 said:
Chester doesn't go for her in any aggressive way, it's just a game.
Really? I quote your earlier post.Doesn't sound like much of a game to me.Xtriple129 said:
Also, Chester (the little fat tank that is a cross between a Basset and a pot bellied pig) bites her legs whenever we are going out for a walk.The other week he got her a treat and she was in a bad way for about three days. She was so lame (back legs this time) that I was having to carry her everywhere. It was horrible to watch/see."
paintman said:
Xtriple129 said:
Chester doesn't go for her in any aggressive way, it's just a game.
Really? I quote your earlier post.Doesn't sound like much of a game to me.Xtriple129 said:
Also, Chester (the little fat tank that is a cross between a Basset and a pot bellied pig) bites her legs whenever we are going out for a walk.The other week he got her a treat and she was in a bad way for about three days. She was so lame (back legs this time) that I was having to carry her everywhere. It was horrible to watch/see."
It's just that since she's started having trouble with her legs, she is easy to hurt. When I was having to carry her it was because he'd grabbed a back leg as she was running to the door - there seemed to be a bit of a twist going on.
The only way to really find out what's going on is an x-ray.
My dog was a bit lame (hind legs) when she was getting up and the vet thought it was a touch of arthritis (she was 5). Then she tore her cruciate ligament and needed an operation. Turns out she has more than a touch of arthritis!
She's on a low dose of Metacam now and doesn't show any signs of lameness, and has fully recovered from her op.
My dog was a bit lame (hind legs) when she was getting up and the vet thought it was a touch of arthritis (she was 5). Then she tore her cruciate ligament and needed an operation. Turns out she has more than a touch of arthritis!
She's on a low dose of Metacam now and doesn't show any signs of lameness, and has fully recovered from her op.
xray will not show soft tissue damage. Cruciate damage is soft tissue, there may be some subtle changes on xrays but there is much more info available from clinical examination. The history of soreness post-exercise is hugely indicative of arthritic pain, but not 100%. If the liquid you were given wae a pain killer such as meloxicam, then this should have helped with any arthritic pain. However, the problem may have changed from a degenerative one such as arthritis to a more acute one such as a damaged anterior cruciate ligament. Needs further prompt investigation, with a definitive answer from your vet. HTH
Xtriple129 said:
Sorry, I explained badly. When they are going out for their 'big' walk of the day they both get really excited and go into their little routines - Phoebe eating dry dog food to sustain her for the hour or two she's away from food and Chester grabbing hold of her and pulling her to the door so he can go out. He normally grabs her collar but sometimes (well, often) he grabs her legs. He always has ever since he was a baby and it isn't done maliciously - if it was, there'd be bloody trouble coming his way!
It's just that since she's started having trouble with her legs, she is easy to hurt. When I was having to carry her it was because he'd grabbed a back leg as she was running to the door - there seemed to be a bit of a twist going on.
No, I think you explained it quite clearly. Before she had trouble with her legs it appears it wasn't an issue. Now she is having trouble with her legs it is. And needs stopping to reduce further unnecessary risk of injury.It's just that since she's started having trouble with her legs, she is easy to hurt. When I was having to carry her it was because he'd grabbed a back leg as she was running to the door - there seemed to be a bit of a twist going on.
Thanks to one and all for the help/advice. Chester has been told to 'cease and desist' in no uncertain terms and is getting the message... slowly. Actually, he's been really good, I explained to him in words of one sylable about Pheebs having bad legs and he agreed to try and pinch her ball instead of her legs!
That was a joke... but he has quit biting her after we had 'words'.
After a week and a bit of no drugs, her condition is a bit easier to see. It's definitely her front ankles. They seem to be 'weak' and have no lateral strength, so is this cruciate ligaments? Her favourite vet only works at the surgery Tuesday and Friday (farm vet the rest of the time) so I shall try and get her in tomorrow.
possibly silly question but I am very loath to have her operated on so seeking alternatives, is there any form of ankle support I can get her? Something like you see on horse; neoprene things that would wrap round and support the joints? I have been walking her round the block several (dozen) times a day and now letting her go to the field again, but NOT letting her chase her ball - much to her disgust! It seems to be working and the lameness is receeding.
That was a joke... but he has quit biting her after we had 'words'.
After a week and a bit of no drugs, her condition is a bit easier to see. It's definitely her front ankles. They seem to be 'weak' and have no lateral strength, so is this cruciate ligaments? Her favourite vet only works at the surgery Tuesday and Friday (farm vet the rest of the time) so I shall try and get her in tomorrow.
possibly silly question but I am very loath to have her operated on so seeking alternatives, is there any form of ankle support I can get her? Something like you see on horse; neoprene things that would wrap round and support the joints? I have been walking her round the block several (dozen) times a day and now letting her go to the field again, but NOT letting her chase her ball - much to her disgust! It seems to be working and the lameness is receeding.
Could be ligament but not cruciate, that's back legs.
Until you find the source of her lameness, you can't really start treating properly 'ankles' is an odd area, unless dealing with collapsed carpus, this is not a common problem and can involve surgery to rectify so can't really say if supports will work.
I'd wait and see what her vet says first.
Until you find the source of her lameness, you can't really start treating properly 'ankles' is an odd area, unless dealing with collapsed carpus, this is not a common problem and can involve surgery to rectify so can't really say if supports will work.
I'd wait and see what her vet says first.
Jasandjules said:
Do her forelegs go straight down? I am wondering if we might be looking at Elbow Dysplaysia.
Is she stiff after laying down for a while too?!
She's often stiff after a snooze and that's the time she's most likely to cry. Not sure what you mean by 'legs go straight down' but I have noticed that sometimes her front legs look to be 'turned outwards' a bit, almost as if she's twisting her legs from the shoulder.Is she stiff after laying down for a while too?!
Xtriple129 said:
She's often stiff after a snooze and that's the time she's most likely to cry. Not sure what you mean by 'legs go straight down' but I have noticed that sometimes her front legs look to be 'turned outwards' a bit, almost as if she's twisting her legs from the shoulder.
Were her parents scored for Elbows?Turning out could be another sign of ED.
Stiff after sleeping too. I would suggest a vet could ID this pretty quickly.
I thought ED was more a developmental problem - 9-18 months? She's 6 years by the way. Anyway, at the mo' she's MUCH better. No limping, nothing. However, she finds it really easy to hurt her ankles, first it was right front, now it's left front and the other one is fine!
I did a lot of googling the other night (about ED to start with) and one of the things that came up was Lymes disease. It seems to fit her symptoms really accurately - started out with just a suggestion of lameness, then stiffness, then wandering lameness etc. I mean, she's been lame in her back legs for a while and it was so bad she was having to be carried out for a wee then recovered really quickly (two- three days), then front right, now slightly front left. This has been going on for a while with random legs being lame. At one point I even thought she'd slipped a disc!
I don't recall her ever having a tic on her, but, Chester had two walking across his head on a white bit (so easy to see). I did check Pheebs over but didn't find any by hand. She's black and her coat is very thick so it's impossible to find things on her. These tics were on Chester 6-8 weeks before Pheebs started with all this.
They are both Frontlined or equivalent at regular intervals, would this rule it out?
Thank you all for your help, I really do appreciate it. I'm a bit stuck at the moment for taking her to the vets as I'm crippled up again myself (AS and a broken back!) and while I can walk them slowly I cannot get into the car!
I did a lot of googling the other night (about ED to start with) and one of the things that came up was Lymes disease. It seems to fit her symptoms really accurately - started out with just a suggestion of lameness, then stiffness, then wandering lameness etc. I mean, she's been lame in her back legs for a while and it was so bad she was having to be carried out for a wee then recovered really quickly (two- three days), then front right, now slightly front left. This has been going on for a while with random legs being lame. At one point I even thought she'd slipped a disc!
I don't recall her ever having a tic on her, but, Chester had two walking across his head on a white bit (so easy to see). I did check Pheebs over but didn't find any by hand. She's black and her coat is very thick so it's impossible to find things on her. These tics were on Chester 6-8 weeks before Pheebs started with all this.
They are both Frontlined or equivalent at regular intervals, would this rule it out?
Thank you all for your help, I really do appreciate it. I'm a bit stuck at the moment for taking her to the vets as I'm crippled up again myself (AS and a broken back!) and while I can walk them slowly I cannot get into the car!
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