Dirt cheap flights, how can airlines afford this?

[Big E 118]

I know we see plenty of cheap short haul Easyjet etc. flights with no perks but I get regular offers from Air New Zealand and was amazed at some of the offers they are doing.

They're offering London - LA return for £386.53, when looking at the bookings page where they breakdown costs it's all tax apart from £82.00! £82.00 for a "proper" airline return flight to LA, they must be losing a fortune on that.

I know the real profit is in business and first class but I understand those kind of passenger numbers are down significantly. How can an airline afford to subsidise to this level, or can't they?

[XG332]

Heathrow to New York on BA was £55 before tax and charges.

[Puggit]

That specific route (LHR-LAX-AKL) is relatively unpopular when compared to the alternative that Air NZ offer (via Hong Kong). Passengers going to AKL have to deboard at LAX and go through US immigration.

I'm not surprised they are trying to fill up those planes!

[BoRED S2upid]

Making money through Cargo?

[Targarama]

A few cheap seats, then the prices rise as the plane fills up. The UK airlines also screw business travellers who don't stay over a Saturday night - flights are around half the price when you add this in. My flight to San Francisco next week is £1920. In economy.

BA/Virgin is such a ripoff I am actually considering United Airlines next time at half the price (how bad can they be on long haul? I don't drink alcohol on flights, eat their meals and have an iPad).

[BrabusMog]

I would imagine that fare is a q class fare which is the cheapest you can book. Once they're gone the next price bracket will open up and so on and so forth.

As someone else said, transit through the US is a royal PITA. ESTA required even for transit and treated like a criminal by immigration staff, LAX, DFW and IAH being the worst. So I guess lower fares are encouraged so the flights don't lose the airline money.

[Puggit]

Targarama said:

BA/Virgin is such a ripoff I am actually considering United Airlines next time at half the price (how bad can they be on long haul? I don't drink alcohol on flights, eat their meals and have an iPad).

If you have Star Alliance Gold, then you've got a good chance of a bump up to their economy-plus (don't confuse this with premium economy - just means more space!).

[BrabusMog]

Puggit said:

If you have Star Alliance Gold, then you've got a good chance of a bump up to their economy-plus (don't confuse this with premium economy - just means more space!).

Is that a bulkhead or emergency exit row seat? Hadn't heard of that one.

[Puggit]

BrabusMog said:

Puggit said:

If you have Star Alliance Gold, then you've got a good chance of a bump up to their economy-plus (don't confuse this with premium economy - just means more space!).

Is that a bulkhead or emergency exit row seat? Hadn't heard of that one.

It's a whole section in its own right: http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6867,1314,00....

[BrabusMog]

Puggit said:

It's a whole section in its own right: http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6867,1314,00....

That's probably why our account manager is coming to see me next week, haven't even had an email about this from them yet. Cheers.

[Targarama]

Puggit said:

If you have Star Alliance Gold, then you've got a good chance of a bump up to their economy-plus (don't confuse this with premium economy - just means more space!).

Thanks. My American colleagues have this status, and get bumped quite often. I know what economy plus is - I'm tall and skiny - something similar to Virgin's extra legroom seats is fine for me.

I'm currently pondering whether to 'go for it' to get Star Alliance Gold/Senator status. I'll do it with Lufthansa. Already used them to Tokyo from London due to extortionate BA/Virgin/ANA/JAL pricing (we really need more runways and landing slots in SE England!!).

[thehawk]

Puggit said:

That specific route (LHR-LAX-AKL) is relatively unpopular when compared to the alternative that Air NZ offer (via Hong Kong). Passengers going to AKL have to deboard at LAX and go through US immigration.

I'm not surprised they are trying to fill up those planes!

Are you sure about that? Qantas did, but I'm sure Air NZ use the same terminal and you just have to wait in a segregated lounge and reboard. (business class passengers get access to the lounge)

AFAIK AIr NZ has no problems filling up the front end of it's planes, certainly on the AKL-LAX route where I've spent close to $9000 USD each flight for 3 flights last year.

And in economy they are by far the best airline flying between LHR and LAX/SFO.

[Deva Link]

Puggit said:

Targarama said:

BA/Virgin is such a ripoff I am actually considering United Airlines next time at half the price (how bad can they be on long haul? I don't drink alcohol on flights, eat their meals and have an iPad).

If you have Star Alliance Gold, then you've got a good chance of a bump up to their economy-plus (don't confuse this with premium economy - just means more space!).

..or you could buy the upgrade, it's only $100, an absolute no-brainer at that price. You can get an annual pass, which cover you and a travelling companion, for just over $400, but I have a feeling the upgrade isn't guaranteed.

My wife & I used them from LHR to SFO last year and it was absolutely fine.

[miln0039]

I have to go to New York on Sunday (start of 4 weeks over there) at late notice, for a Premium Economy ticket BA wanted £2,300!!! That's where they make the money! However, not from me. I shopped around and am now going Business Class on Delta for a mere £1,700...

[sjg]

Puggit said:

That specific route (LHR-LAX-AKL) is relatively unpopular when compared to the alternative that Air NZ offer (via Hong Kong). Passengers going to AKL have to deboard at LAX and go through US immigration.

I'm not surprised they are trying to fill up those planes!

This. It's miserable, you queue for an age to get through immigration then get stuck in a room for a couple of hours while they turn the plane around. The only benefit is better luggage allowance via the US.

Also Air NZ generally aren't the obvious choice for an LA flight and get overlooked. Better for them to fill some seats for £82 rather than have them empty, at a time of year that is normally pretty quiet for them. Prices to NZ always go crazy in the run up to Christmas then drop off a cliff straight after.

[Big E 118]

Puggit said:

That specific route (LHR-LAX-AKL) is relatively unpopular when compared to the alternative that Air NZ offer (via Hong Kong). Passengers going to AKL have to deboard at LAX and go through US immigration.
I'm not surprised they are trying to fill up those planes!

I've done the LHR/LAX/AKL before "non-stop" (and never again!) and we just went into a transit lounge for an hour, no need for immigration. The US route to Aus/NZ is 3 hours longer though and that's probably why it's less popular. Everyone seems to go to Aus/NZ via a few days in Dubai now.

I don't travel for business anymore and must admit I'm pretty surpirsed at some of the prices mentioned above, they look to have gone up a lot recently.

Anyone have any idea of the cost of fuel for a 747 from LHR to LAX?

[miln0039]

Big E 118 said:

I've done the LHR/LAX/AKL before "non-stop" (and never again!) and we just went into a transit lounge for an hour, no need for immigration. The US route to Aus/NZ is 3 hours longer though and that's probably why it's less popular. Everyone seems to go to Aus/NZ via a few days in Dubai now.

I don't travel for business anymore and must admit I'm pretty surpirsed at some of the prices mentioned above, they look to have gone up a lot recently.

Anyone have any idea of the cost of fuel for a 747 from LHR to LAX?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/42100

Try this link for some fuel burn ideas (lots of pilots post on there so it's fairly credible!). The link is a bit old (2002) so the $ amounts a couple of guys use are probably way out of date - however, if you take the fuel burn data and apply that to current aviation fuel prices you could reverse engineer something. I don't have the time, but it must be interesting to get an idea of the gross price of fuel alone, I wonder if these £82 seats would even cover that before you think about the staff costs, landing fees, food etc.

[sneijder]

BoRED S2upid said:

Making money through Cargo?

This.

I've sent a full flight, 20 + business 220 + economy with 21 tonnes of cargo.

Down the road my friend is sending a 747 cargo with 38 tonnes and still making a profit (that is a very light load though).

[0a]

Yield management. The aim is to maximise the revenue from a fixed capacity asset (number of seats), often based on changing price on lead time and charging for flexibility.