Amsterdam - tourist to be banned from coffeeshops

[rich85uk]

Afternoon all

Im sure some of you may have seen that as of 1st may 3 so called 'border towns' in holland have been forced to ban tourists from there coffeeshops, and only allow dutch nationals who have signed up to a so called weed pass in. This will apply to the whole country as on 1st jan 2013

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbender/2012/05/0...

it seems in Maastricht alone around 400 jobs may well go, and with coffeeshop owners reporting that tourists make up to 90% of there customers the total job losses will probably be in the thousands and along with measures to close down parts of the red light districts (this has already started) Amsterdam as we know it is set to change forever.

Personally i think they are making a bad move here, many millions will be lost in tax money (coffeeshops and the window girls are taxed) not to mention the huge drop in tourism as many have said they wont visit the city again.
thoughts?

[davepoth]

Amsterdam on a Saturday night is like the last days of Sodom and Gomorrah. It feels extremely dangerous. I can see why the Dutch don't really want drug tourists, and if they can use this change to make a "cafe culture" (of the right sorts of cafes) it's probably a good thing for them.

This does of course mean that when the cafes all go out of business, cannabis dealing will move into criminal hands.

[rich85uk]

when i first went 9 years ago the red light district at night was very scary, lots of these drug dealers on the bridges trying to sell you drugs and the moment you made eye contact that was it, lots of pestering would follow and then there were the general crack heads asking for the time etc which soon followed by 'got a spare euro?' saying no or then ignoring them led to verbal abuse including being told i would be stabbed. then you get the general stag/hen do drunks which add a rowdy feel but never personally bothered me. never saw any trouble in all the coffeeshops i went in

and yes i do feel this will play to the street dealers hands, even if you have a pass you will now be limited to a 3 gram personal limit which is a big drop and some dutch have said they will buy bigger amounts from dealers

problem is can Amsterdam afford to lose these tourists? i have been looking on forums for general advice on my 3rd trip in a few weekends time and i would guess about 80% of posters have said they will not go back as of 2013, and when you read what they spend on hotels,tram fare,taxis,food,drink smoke and sometimes women there will be a huge hole they have to fill

[Silver993tt]

rich85uk said:

problem is can Amsterdam afford to lose these tourists?

yes, there are many people who won't go to Amsterdam because of the 'drug' culture. Clamping down on it can only be a good thing. I also lived there (right inj the centre near the floating flower market) for 2 years so got to know it quite well.

[HeatonNorris]

It has been proven time and time again that criminalising drugs causes more problems than it solves.

Portugal seems to have it spot on - they have decriminalised small amounts for personal consumption and offer counselling to anyone caught - which has left them with the lowest rates of drug use in the EU.

Can't see it ending well for Holland.

[Mr Gearchange]

I went about 13 years ago with some mates when in our early twenties.

Got pranged before getting out of bed on the first morning.

Got a milshake and went to central station to grab some cash.

Got mugged in broad daylight by a sub 5ft Columbian nutcase with a knife.

Super sureal and scary.

[anonymous-user]

I've been 5 times and knew someone that lived over there. If you go to the st areas there will be st people, and I have met a few. The place is a city not a town and if you take care you can have fun. it ain't all about the boats and hoes...

there are a lot of nasty people because stoned/drunk tourists are easy pickings just like Barcelona, Tampa, new york......

[Silver993tt]

HeatonNorris said:

It has been proven time and time again that criminalising drugs causes more problems than it solves.

They're not criminalising it at all, they're just making it a local culture rather than an international one. Most of the problems caused by drugs in Holland are caused by stupid immature tourists who have spolied it for the majority. Stag parties from the UK have been a main culprit - loads of pissed idiots who are completely out of their depth in a place such as Amsterdam, again ruining it for the majority.

[HeatonNorris]

Silver993tt said:

HeatonNorris said:

It has been proven time and time again that criminalising drugs causes more problems than it solves.

They're not criminalising it at all, they're just making it a local culture rather than an international one. Most of the problems caused by drugs in Holland are caused by stupid immature tourists who have spolied it for the majority. Stag parties from the UK have been a main culprit - loads of pissed idiots who are completely out of their depth in a place such as Amsterdam, again ruining it for the majority.

So they're 'criminalising' it for visitors, which will do what?

Drive the market for tourists into the hands of dealers on the streets.

Not really convinced that's a great plan.

[Silver993tt]

HeatonNorris said:

So they're 'criminalising' it for visitors, which will do what?

Drive the market for tourists into the hands of dealers on the streets.

Not really convinced that's a great plan.

It won't be solved overnight but eventually the dirty side of Amsterdam will get cleaned up because that's the way the Dutch deal with problems, they solve thenm in a no-nonsense manner. The result will be the influx of many tourists who've constantly stayed away because of the the current issues and they will spend much more money which won't be in the black economy, so much more tax revenue for the goverment.

[Pulse]

That's actually an interesting viewpoint, and I hadn't seen it that way. Clearly, or at least you'd hope, they have modelled this based on the demographic shift expected following the introduction of the new law.

[rich85uk]

Silver993tt said:

t won't be solved overnight but eventually the dirty side of Amsterdam will get cleaned up because that's the way the Dutch deal with problems, they solve thenm in a no-nonsense manner. The result will be the influx of many tourists who've constantly stayed away because of the the current issues and they will spend much more money which won't be in the black economy, so much more tax revenue for the goverment.

problem is i cant see that many tourists stay away from amsterdam, im sure there is a few but the RLD is a very small part of this city so im sure many of the other tourists just aviod that area

there also quite a few men who go over there, with about 2000 euros a week to spend on coffeeshops and women. i know its abit sad but that is alot of money for a city to gamble on losing

[Marf]

Silver993tt said:

Stag parties from the UK have been a main culprit - loads of pissed idiots who are completely out of their depth in a place such as Amsterdam, again ruining it for the majority.

I'm not being obtuse here, but I fail to see how stopping foreigners from entering coffeeshops will stop the drunken British stag party contingent from visiting Amsterdam. The main reason they go there is for the girls, not the pot. People who go to smoke do just that, find a coffeeshop, get stoned and compare notes with other stoners, local or foreign.

If this does anything but damage the tourist economy of Amsterdam I'll be incredibly surprised. If anyones ever been over there in November you'll know how busy it gets due to a particular horticultural event held each year. I should imagine the hit taken from losing that event will be a massive hit on the local economy, not just coffeeshops but hotels, restaurants, shops etc.

I've been a fairly regular visitor for years, and the only trouble I've seen is from drunkards, and yes mainly British drunkards. Street dealing(Class A) used to be incredibly prevalent when I started visiting in the late 90's, but has as far as I can see all but disapeared in the last 10 years.

The one time I've ever felt unsafe there is when a street dealer just wouldn't bugger off. Ended up having to walk into a shop, dealer still in tow and ask loudly where the local cop shop was. Ban tourists from buying pot and all you'll get is a resurgence of street dealers filling a gap which coffeeshops currently occupy.

I've read that it is down to the local mayor of each town/city to enact these new regulations, and I'd be very surprised if the mayor of Amsterdam does so.

Edited by Marf on Monday 7th May 12:38

Edited by Marf on Monday 7th May 12:41

[rb5er]

People get scared in amsterdam? Ive been 5 times and am usually just laughing all weekend.

This move will lose them billions.

[Silver993tt]

Pulse said:

That's actually an interesting viewpoint, and I hadn't seen it that way. Clearly, or at least you'd hope, they have modelled this based on the demographic shift expected following the introduction of the new law.

exactly, the Dutch aren't stupid in this area, they're probably the best experts worldwide based on years of experience. They will have studied the pros & cons before taking any decisions one way or the other.

[rich85uk]

Marf said:

I'm not being obtuse here, but I fail to see how stopping foreigners from entering coffeeshops will stop the drunken British stag party contingent from visiting Amsterdam. The main reason they go there is for the girls, not the pot. People who go to smoke do just that, find a coffeeshop, get stoned and compare notes with other stoners, local or foreign.

If this does anything but damage the tourist economy of Amsterdam I'll be incredibly surprised. If anyones ever been over there in November you'll know how busy it gets due to a particular horticultural event held each year. I should imagine the hit taken from losing that event will be a massive hit on the local economy, not just coffeeshops but hotels, restaurants, shops etc.

I've been a fairly regular visitor for years, and the only trouble I've seen is from drunkards, and yes mainly British drunkards. Street dealing(Class A) used to be incredibly prevalent when I started visiting in the late 90's, but has as far as I can see all but disapeared in the last 10 years.

The one time I've ever felt unsafe there is when a street dealer just wouldn't bugger off. Ended up having to walk into a shop, dealer still in tow and ask loudly where the local cop shop was. Ban tourists from buying pot and all you'll get is a resurgence of street dealers filling a gap which coffeeshops currently occupy.

I've read that it is down to the local mayor of each town/city to enact these new regulations, and I'd be very surprised if the mayor of Amsterdam does so.

Edited by Marf on Monday 7th May 12:38

Edited by Marf on Monday 7th May 12:41

i guess your reffering to the cannabis cup? unfortunately it was raided by the police last year for no real reason which made people very nervous and yes its very unlikely to carry on with the ban in place. some of the coffeeshops invest alot of money to win a cc award but with the average coffeeshop 70% of people who visit them are tourists. with 70% and in some cases 90% drop in customers the cc will end, and many of the coffeeshops will close down altogether

and thats great news if its true about the mayor situation, last i heard he was publicly outraged by the idea. however i fear he may be powerless on this one..

[ChrisBMW]

I've been twice although not through choice as I was attending two friends stag do's, never liked the place at all there are a lot more places in Europe I would rather go.

Have to agree that it seems it will cost the country a lot of money.