Is it getting harder to travel?
Discussion
Or is it just me?
From where I live any substantial car journey can hardly avoid the M25, M11 or A12. There never seems to be a time when one or more of these isn't blocked. Don't even want to think about the Dartford Crossing. What were built as transport arteries are now becoming obstacles to be overcome.
The trains are prohibitively expensive, even to an old duffer like me who had the foresight to save for a decent pension. The ticketing arrangements are Byzantine. I have a son who lives 250 miles to the north of me, and lives right by the side of the East Coast Main Line, but to get there by train means a journey to London just for starters, and the cost, even with discounts, is a multiple of what it costs to go by car. I can drive there quicker.
And last week my other lad took his family for a week to a resort in Turkey. He lost a day getting there because Stansted was in chaos because of a lighting strike, and coming back had to wait hours in passport control and baggage reclaim.
A generation ago, when I was travelling around quite a bit, I was flying regularly, but for the life of me I can't recall regular disruption like this. The trains ran on time, and you could just roll up and buy a ticket - and sit down. And although there were the occasional jams on the roads, I don't recall them being such a regular and predictable occurrence.
Now I know everything was better 'back in the day' for us old folks, but even factoring in the nostalgia element, it seems to me that advances in technology and infrastructure have not resulted in a world where you can get about more easily than a generation ago.
Or I could be wrong.
From where I live any substantial car journey can hardly avoid the M25, M11 or A12. There never seems to be a time when one or more of these isn't blocked. Don't even want to think about the Dartford Crossing. What were built as transport arteries are now becoming obstacles to be overcome.
The trains are prohibitively expensive, even to an old duffer like me who had the foresight to save for a decent pension. The ticketing arrangements are Byzantine. I have a son who lives 250 miles to the north of me, and lives right by the side of the East Coast Main Line, but to get there by train means a journey to London just for starters, and the cost, even with discounts, is a multiple of what it costs to go by car. I can drive there quicker.
And last week my other lad took his family for a week to a resort in Turkey. He lost a day getting there because Stansted was in chaos because of a lighting strike, and coming back had to wait hours in passport control and baggage reclaim.
A generation ago, when I was travelling around quite a bit, I was flying regularly, but for the life of me I can't recall regular disruption like this. The trains ran on time, and you could just roll up and buy a ticket - and sit down. And although there were the occasional jams on the roads, I don't recall them being such a regular and predictable occurrence.
Now I know everything was better 'back in the day' for us old folks, but even factoring in the nostalgia element, it seems to me that advances in technology and infrastructure have not resulted in a world where you can get about more easily than a generation ago.
Or I could be wrong.
Edited by Roofless Toothless on Thursday 7th June 09:52
I couldn't comment on if things have changed, but I don't find it particuly hard to travel!
I suspect I used to live in a simialr area to you. I lived in Loughton and then Romford. I took the tube into cetral london (Paddington) every day for £10 return and it took 45 minutes. I think that is quite reasonable for price and time. In romford it was the train but cost/time similar. I always got a seat on the way to work. It will get better still when Crossrail opens.
Perhaps once a fortnight I would drive to a manafacture, quite oftern one near cambridge. from Loughton it was a bit of a hassel, the links to the motorway (m25 or m11 northbaound) are rubbish. In Romford it was easy and quick, virtually no traffic.
Likewise air travel, I've no real issue with. I live in Tbilisi and sometimes have long weekends in Manachester, flying into Gatwick, picking up a car and diving to my parents house. Quite quick and easy really!
Probably depends a lot on when and how you travel!
I suspect I used to live in a simialr area to you. I lived in Loughton and then Romford. I took the tube into cetral london (Paddington) every day for £10 return and it took 45 minutes. I think that is quite reasonable for price and time. In romford it was the train but cost/time similar. I always got a seat on the way to work. It will get better still when Crossrail opens.
Perhaps once a fortnight I would drive to a manafacture, quite oftern one near cambridge. from Loughton it was a bit of a hassel, the links to the motorway (m25 or m11 northbaound) are rubbish. In Romford it was easy and quick, virtually no traffic.
Likewise air travel, I've no real issue with. I live in Tbilisi and sometimes have long weekends in Manachester, flying into Gatwick, picking up a car and diving to my parents house. Quite quick and easy really!
Probably depends a lot on when and how you travel!
Perhaps I should add, I never drive with the normal flow of traffic at rush hours. I also start/finish work earlier than most so get seats on trains etc. TO make my trip sback to the UK easier I only fly nito Gatwick, the car rentals are a short walk, rather than a bus like heathrow. FLying to heathrow can add an hour to the journey, extended taxi time and bus to car rental, likewise on the retrun trip.
I'm very familiar with the airpiorts/stations/roads I use regulary, I know when they will be busy and avoid and how to move throught htem quickly and painlessly.
I admit, new locations take longer, cost more and are harder work for me!
I'm very familiar with the airpiorts/stations/roads I use regulary, I know when they will be busy and avoid and how to move throught htem quickly and painlessly.
I admit, new locations take longer, cost more and are harder work for me!
cml24 said:
Likewise air travel, I've no real issue with. I live in Tbilisi and sometimes have long weekends in Manachester, flying into Gatwick, picking up a car and diving to my parents house. Quite quick and easy really!
Haha, fun route to do just for the weekend, you really sound like a super easy person 
(several hour flight, walking out of b...y gatweeeek, then several hour drive, hey ho)
Don't think it's too bad.
I drive from Cambs to Tunbridge Wells every Friday, getting down there for a 9:30am meeting and leaving about 1pm so I can do the school run. The Dartford crossing has, occasionally, been a bit slow but not so much that it's ever added more than only a couple of minutes to the journey (unless some muppet has decided that driving in a straight line is too hard for them and crashed into something)
At Feb half term, I drive out to the Alps with my son for a week. It's one of the busiest times of the year for the Eurotunnel but we still get through pretty smoothly, and often don't even have time for a quick bite to eat or a wee (no great hardship, it's mobbed and the food is better in France anyway and there are loos on the train).
There's sometimes a bit of a slow-down where the A40 and A42 merge just south of Bourg en Bresse but again, it's generally smooth running.
This year we did have to wait an hour or so extra at the tunnel on the way out due to a couple of accidents on the M25 causing it to snarl up pretty badly, but it's the first time in 5 years that we've missed our scheduled train.
I can only think of one flight in recent years which caused a problem, and that was a BA fight from Munich to Heathrow that got in late enough that the tube was closed and I missed my last train home so I got a hotel for the night.
I'm ignoring the current situation with the trains, but I commuted to London by train for several years and other than the issues of snow a few years ago, I could do 1hr 10 minutes door to door from here to Baker St which was faster than many Londoners.
I drive from Cambs to Tunbridge Wells every Friday, getting down there for a 9:30am meeting and leaving about 1pm so I can do the school run. The Dartford crossing has, occasionally, been a bit slow but not so much that it's ever added more than only a couple of minutes to the journey (unless some muppet has decided that driving in a straight line is too hard for them and crashed into something)
At Feb half term, I drive out to the Alps with my son for a week. It's one of the busiest times of the year for the Eurotunnel but we still get through pretty smoothly, and often don't even have time for a quick bite to eat or a wee (no great hardship, it's mobbed and the food is better in France anyway and there are loos on the train).
There's sometimes a bit of a slow-down where the A40 and A42 merge just south of Bourg en Bresse but again, it's generally smooth running.
This year we did have to wait an hour or so extra at the tunnel on the way out due to a couple of accidents on the M25 causing it to snarl up pretty badly, but it's the first time in 5 years that we've missed our scheduled train.
I can only think of one flight in recent years which caused a problem, and that was a BA fight from Munich to Heathrow that got in late enough that the tube was closed and I missed my last train home so I got a hotel for the night.
I'm ignoring the current situation with the trains, but I commuted to London by train for several years and other than the issues of snow a few years ago, I could do 1hr 10 minutes door to door from here to Baker St which was faster than many Londoners.
Johnnytheboy said:
The population is growing and becoming more affluent, and the government have effectively stopped building new roads.
And those that do exist - are deteriorating. Instead of properly resurfacing - potholes are just patched. I'm sure this leads to more frequent road works/temporary traffic lights.Another thing I have never seen discussed in relation to traffic is driver hesitancy. More and more i'm seeing drivers pulling away from junctions/traffic lights very hesitantly or very slowly. This must reduce the throughput of junctions and thus exacerbate bottlenecks.
In terms of trains - the rail network was massively reduced in the late 1960s and 1970s.
Edited by Moonhawk on Thursday 7th June 10:25
Johnnytheboy said:
Plus in holiday times it appears to have become mandatory to take children somewhere EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Not just holiday times, every weekend as well.And a lot of the time you'll find one parent will take the kids out and the other will do something else.
Where we live (new build estate) you can't move for cars parked all over the place during the week, but most weekends it's like a ghost town. Both cars gone all day... I know some will be working, but not all of them.
king impossible 
It's getting harder for me to travel thanks to Ryanair pretty much stopping flying from Glasgow late this year. Whilst getting away from them is probably a blessing rather than a curse, it's reducing the choice and availability of flights, which is a pita.
TBH I think the smart option more generally is to travel less all round. Organise home/work life (and schools if appropriate) so that journeys are reduced, journey times are reduced and walk/cycle/public transport instead of the car.
I've done it. I'm currently selling my car because I only did 2k miles last year, and most of that was a pointless waste of petrol.
TBH I think the smart option more generally is to travel less all round. Organise home/work life (and schools if appropriate) so that journeys are reduced, journey times are reduced and walk/cycle/public transport instead of the car.
I've done it. I'm currently selling my car because I only did 2k miles last year, and most of that was a pointless waste of petrol.
Zetec-S said:
Not just holiday times, every weekend as well.
And a lot of the time you'll find one parent will take the kids out and the other will do something else.
Where we live (new build estate) you can't move for cars parked all over the place during the week, but most weekends it's like a ghost town. Both cars gone all day... I know some will be working, but not all of them.
Ah the parent bashing, had to come in at some point lol And a lot of the time you'll find one parent will take the kids out and the other will do something else.
Where we live (new build estate) you can't move for cars parked all over the place during the week, but most weekends it's like a ghost town. Both cars gone all day... I know some will be working, but not all of them.
> Keep them inside then get told you don't take them out enough and they will all turn obese - like people used to in the old days we would kick a ball around over the park for 9 hours
> Take them out locally and get told that you don't vary things - in the old days used to head to family, friends, the beach now kids just go to local playgrounds day after day
> Take them out somewhere further afield on public transport and get glared at and tutted at for taking up so much room with buggies - in the old days my mum would carry a dozen children on her back without some posh buggy
> Take them out in somewhere further afield in the car - see above lol
I can only apologise on behalf of all parents for daring to vary children's development and promise we will only drive between 2am and 6am so not to inconvenience others ;-)
Roofless Toothless said:
Or is it just me?
From where I live any substantial car journey can hardly avoid the M25, M11 or A12.
Let's hold the Essex theme here (though the issues I know, apply elsewhere).From where I live any substantial car journey can hardly avoid the M25, M11 or A12.
In Maldon, 1,400 homes are being built on the outskirts of a town without a rail link and already over-congested roads but with absolutely no provision even planned for increasing road capacity.
On an even bigger scale you have Beaulieu Park north of Chelmsford which is effectively a new town - again with no planned improvements to the road network that will serve it including the A12 which ceased to become fit for purpose as far back as the 1980s.
Southend is the largest town in South East England outside of London but remains served by just two, dual carriage roads where even one little prang results in hours of chaos.
My nearest station is Chelmsford. A peak time day return to London is £35 plus £3 for the park and ride. OR I can drive to my Mum's in Upminster where a travel card will cost about a tenner - which is what most people south of the A12 tend to do (my Mum's getting mad at all the cars in her drive! :-)
In political parlance, what we have is a lack of integration in transport and housing policies. Why so?
In left-leaning areas, local politicians sign-off on lots of social / low-cost housing as they house lots of left leaning voters
In right leaning areas, local politicians sign-off on lots of mid-high cost, 'executive' housing as they house lots of right leaning voters
Neither right or left leaning politicians sign off on road expansion programmes as these tend to loose votes rather than win them.
Unless you know exactly where you need to go in 100 days time and at what precise time, inter-city train travel is out of the reach of most sensible thinking individuals.
The paradox is, with cheap internal flights, the further you have to travel in the UK, it is sometimes the case that it's cheaper, quicker and easier than a local trip.
cml24 said:
I couldn't comment on if things have changed, but I don't find it particularly hard to travel!
This. Its not harder to travel but due to the drop in the pound, it is more expensive.
As for airports, sounds like the OP's mistake was going to Stanstead. If flying short haul I'd rather fly from a regional airport like Southampton, if long haul I'll pay the £20 extra to fly from Heathrow.
chris7676 said:
I'm sure it is harder to an extent - more airport security, more people tend to travel (especially accounting for new Chinese tourists) and things generally get a bit overcomplicated.
I commute Gatwick-Schiphol regularly and in the last couple of years Gatwick have really sorted out their security (Shiphol's always been good), I can't remember when I've had to wait more than 5 minutes to get through.On the other hand probably around 20-30% of my flights are delayed, presumably because the airlines have cut costs as far as they can and have no slack in the system when there is any kind of problem.
captain_cynic said:
cml24 said:
I couldn't comment on if things have changed, but I don't find it particularly hard to travel!
This. Its not harder to travel but due to the drop in the pound, it is more expensive.
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