What actually happens if you over stay in Europe?

[Bill]

Theres a long winded back story but my brother is trying to sort the paperwork for an Irish passport.

In the meantime he and his European GF have moved to Hamburg. He was hoping to have it all sorted PDQ but it's proving more complicated due to my (born in NI) mother's adoption.

So what happens if he just stays put inside the Schengen zone???

[OMITN]

Assuming he’s a UK citizen….

Then somewhere between nothing to a fine, to deportation to being banned from returning to the Schengen zone (and possibly - but I’m not sure - from other EU countries) for up to 5 years.

No idea how this affects obtaining an Irish passport, but I can’t see any of those things being seen as a positive..!

He might need to head back to the UK for a bit while his Irish passport is finalised.

[Puggit]

Assuming he only has a UK passport - if he overstays the 90 out of 180 days the next time he come across officials who care (ie police or border guards) he will probably be taken in to custody and invited to return to the UK. The next time he tries to enter Schengen he will find it extremely difficult and applying to stay (assuming no Irish passport) will be made considerably more difficult to impossible.

[GT03ROB]

Bill said:

Theres a long winded back story but my brother is trying to sort the paperwork for an Irish passport.

In the meantime he and his European GF have moved to Hamburg. He was hoping to have it all sorted PDQ but it's proving more complicated due to my (born in NI) mother's adoption.

So what happens if he just stays put inside the Schengen zone???

Probably not much in the short term, though he may have a problem on departure. Fines are possible. He would quite probably not get back in on his UK passport.. If he stayed long enough to depart on his Irish passport he could be Ok

[Jamescrs]

Weirdly I saw a video buy a British passport holder this had happened to recently on Tiktok, obviously you can treat it with a pinch of salt if you wish but the long and short of it was that he was detained at the airport when he tried to check in for a flight out of the Schengen zone and spoken to by the local law enforcement. He received a three year ban from the Schengen zone countries.

[LimaDelta]

At the moment there is no centralised system counting up your days in the EU, so unless you have a customs agent manually counting your days, or it is one continuous and obviously overly-long visit then the chances are nothing will happen. I heard this direct from our customs agent. It may well change in the future, but as it stands you'd need to be pretty unlucky to have a problem.

[Jamescrs]

LimaDelta said:

At the moment there is no centralised system counting up your days in the EU, so unless you have a customs agent manually counting your days, or it is one continuous and obviously overly-long visit then the chances are nothing will happen. I heard this direct from our customs agent. It may well change in the future, but as it stands you'd need to be pretty unlucky to have a problem.

Surely it can be worked out on passport stamps if the border control was inclined to do so? My passport has been stamped each time I have entered and exited the EU in recent years

[ColdoRS]

Bill said:

Theres a long winded back story but my brother is trying to sort the paperwork for an Irish passport.

In the meantime he and his European GF have moved to Hamburg. He was hoping to have it all sorted PDQ but it's proving more complicated due to my (born in NI) mother's adoption.

So what happens if he just stays put inside the Schengen zone???

He'll be able to fly back to the UK without issue but when he tries to return to the Schengen area he will likely be detained and sent back to the UK when he passes immigration. Likely with an entry ban for x years. Unsure about fine.

A ex-colleague of mine flew from the UK to Barcelona for work having overstayed in the Schengen area previously (Bremen area, funnily enough). She was detained at the airport whilst they done the paperwork and sent back to the UK the following day with a 3 year no entry stipulation - lost her job. Unsure if she was also fined.

[Furbo]

Jamescrs said:

LimaDelta said:

At the moment there is no centralised system counting up your days in the EU, so unless you have a customs agent manually counting your days, or it is one continuous and obviously overly-long visit then the chances are nothing will happen. I heard this direct from our customs agent. It may well change in the future, but as it stands you'd need to be pretty unlucky to have a problem.

Surely it can be worked out on passport stamps if the border control was inclined to do so? My passport has been stamped each time I have entered and exited the EU in recent years

I’ve never met a border control officer, here or abroad, who looked like they could be remotely bothered to check incomplete, poorly executed, possibly overlapping passport stamps.

To be caught, I suspect there needs to be a centralised computer system that takes note and works it out. Or they would need to have an interest in you for some other reason.

[geeks]

Jamescrs said:

LimaDelta said:

At the moment there is no centralised system counting up your days in the EU, so unless you have a customs agent manually counting your days, or it is one continuous and obviously overly-long visit then the chances are nothing will happen. I heard this direct from our customs agent. It may well change in the future, but as it stands you'd need to be pretty unlucky to have a problem.

Surely it can be worked out on passport stamps if the border control was inclined to do so? My passport has been stamped each time I have entered and exited the EU in recent years

Yeah having to just entered and exited the EU the chap at Passport control on entry was checking the days for me as well. To suggest they can't count is naïve at best

[dan98]

If I was him, for now I'd also be looking at getting a settlement permit, either through work, education or whatever - this is considerably easier than citizenship and would give him the right to stay there.
In the longer term it could then be converted into permanent residence incase the Irish passport didn't work out.

[captain_cynic]

OMITN said:

Assuming he s a UK citizen .

Then somewhere between nothing to a fine, to deportation to being banned from returning to the Schengen zone (and possibly - but I m not sure - from other EU countries) for up to 5 years.

No idea how this affects obtaining an Irish passport, but I can t see any of those things being seen as a positive..!

He might need to head back to the UK for a bit while his Irish passport is finalised.

This, if caught it's likely just a fine and being asked to leave, deportation flight is very much a last resort thing for people who've repeatedly broken immigration rules.

The big consequence is that it's a huge red mark on any EU passport or visa application.

So the best course is either seeing if he can get a visa to stay in the EU (Type D "long stay" for a tourist) or spend some time back in the UK.

[ferret50]

Can he not get right to freedom of movement via his G?F's EU passport?

[ThunderSpook]

If your mother was born on the island or Ireland (which you say she was) then you are both automatically Irish citizens, so it doesn't really matter because you are already an EU citizen.

[Bill]

Cheers all, does feel like a FAFO scenario. Could be fine, could really bugger things up!

ferret50 said:

Can he not get right to freedom of movement via his G?F's EU passport?

That's spouses only AIUI.

ThunderSpook said:

If your mother was born on the island or Ireland (which you say she was) then you are both automatically Irish citizens, so it doesn't really matter because you are already an EU citizen.

True, but the best way to prove that is a passport. And as my mum has changed name when adopted and then surname when married so proving the link isn't straightforward. And now she's dead we're having to jump through hoops to get the adoption paperwork.

[Giantt]

Return flight from Switzerland?

[LimaDelta]

geeks said:

Jamescrs said:

LimaDelta said:

At the moment there is no centralised system counting up your days in the EU, so unless you have a customs agent manually counting your days, or it is one continuous and obviously overly-long visit then the chances are nothing will happen. I heard this direct from our customs agent. It may well change in the future, but as it stands you'd need to be pretty unlucky to have a problem.

Surely it can be worked out on passport stamps if the border control was inclined to do so? My passport has been stamped each time I have entered and exited the EU in recent years

Yeah having to just entered and exited the EU the chap at Passport control on entry was checking the days for me as well. To suggest they can't count is naïve at best

Of course they can, that's exactly what I said. How often does that actually happen though? In my experience it is a cursory flick through the passport pages, a shrug and an 'on your way sir' is all you get.

[Furbo]

LimaDelta said:

geeks said:

Jamescrs said:

LimaDelta said:

At the moment there is no centralised system counting up your days in the EU, so unless you have a customs agent manually counting your days, or it is one continuous and obviously overly-long visit then the chances are nothing will happen. I heard this direct from our customs agent. It may well change in the future, but as it stands you'd need to be pretty unlucky to have a problem.

Surely it can be worked out on passport stamps if the border control was inclined to do so? My passport has been stamped each time I have entered and exited the EU in recent years

Yeah having to just entered and exited the EU the chap at Passport control on entry was checking the days for me as well. To suggest they can't count is naïve at best

Of course they can, that's exactly what I said. How often does that actually happen though? In my experience it is a cursory flick through the passport pages, a shrug and an 'on your way sir' is all you get.

Quite. In 50 years of travel I have never once had an immigration bod show any interest whatsoever in my passport stamps.

[SunsetZed]

geeks said:

Jamescrs said:

LimaDelta said:

At the moment there is no centralised system counting up your days in the EU, so unless you have a customs agent manually counting your days, or it is one continuous and obviously overly-long visit then the chances are nothing will happen. I heard this direct from our customs agent. It may well change in the future, but as it stands you'd need to be pretty unlucky to have a problem.

Surely it can be worked out on passport stamps if the border control was inclined to do so? My passport has been stamped each time I have entered and exited the EU in recent years

Yeah having to just entered and exited the EU the chap at Passport control on entry was checking the days for me as well. To suggest they can't count is naïve at best

The stamps are good for flights. Good luck getting stamped out when driving across the border from France into Switzerland though. This is where the issues will still come in the future imo. It's all well and good centralising the system but if not all border crossings can update the days there's still an issue.

[Bill]

SunsetZed said:

The stamps are good for flights. Good luck getting stamped out when driving across the border from France into Switzerland though. This is where the issues will still come in the future imo. It's all well and good centralising the system but if not all border crossings can update the days there's still an issue.

Switzerland is an associated member of Schengen, so you get stamped in and out when you fly.