Learning a language (French) as an adult?
Discussion
Despite the outdated stereotype that the French won't speak English and are unhelpful, I've found the complete opposite and they are as friendly as people anywhere, and you can get by without knowing any French fairly easy, I want to learn the language as I feel a bit of an ignorant p**ck. So I've set myself the challenge to learn some of the language for next year's holiday.
However there appears to be no shortage of options for learning and I'm wondering if other people have learnt a language in adulthood and how they did it. In-person class? Online class? Mobile apps? Immersion (podcasts, TV, film, newspapers etc).
Don't think I'll ever be fluent but would be nice to ask for something, receive directions or have a very basic convo with the bar/Caffe person etc etc.
However there appears to be no shortage of options for learning and I'm wondering if other people have learnt a language in adulthood and how they did it. In-person class? Online class? Mobile apps? Immersion (podcasts, TV, film, newspapers etc).
Don't think I'll ever be fluent but would be nice to ask for something, receive directions or have a very basic convo with the bar/Caffe person etc etc.
I'd recommend a combination of things. Adult evening classes, plus films/TV in spoken French with French subtitles. The former is best for your spoken and written learning, the latter helps your listening and comprehension. Also, if you can find a group made up of fellow learners and native speakers to meet up regularly on a casual basis for conversation, that's an enormous help.
It's not fast, it's not easy, but the key is to not lose heart and keep going when you feel you've hit a "wall". What will eventually happen is that you overcome that without realising it.
I'm sceptical of mobile apps, having tried it myself I have found that the material fails to "stick" if you see what I mean.
My basis for this advice - I speak 4 foreign languages with varying degrees of fluency, 2 learned in childhood and 2 as an adult. I have recently used a mobile app out of curiosity for around a year on a further language, but once I stopped using the app I have forgotten pretty much every single thing. It proved, in isolation, next to useless. But perhaps if used as an aid to proper learning it could have been useful.
It's not fast, it's not easy, but the key is to not lose heart and keep going when you feel you've hit a "wall". What will eventually happen is that you overcome that without realising it.
I'm sceptical of mobile apps, having tried it myself I have found that the material fails to "stick" if you see what I mean.
My basis for this advice - I speak 4 foreign languages with varying degrees of fluency, 2 learned in childhood and 2 as an adult. I have recently used a mobile app out of curiosity for around a year on a further language, but once I stopped using the app I have forgotten pretty much every single thing. It proved, in isolation, next to useless. But perhaps if used as an aid to proper learning it could have been useful.
I found Michel Thomas CD’s (yes, it was that long ago) very good as I had at least an hour each way commuting in the car and suited my learning style. I was learning Russian that time to help in my then business trips and there weren’t that many alternative options anyway. I progressed from that to personal tuition which my company kindly paid for.
My other half is now pretty fluent in French; she started at school, then brushed up many years later using Michel Thomas and then DuoLingo (more useful for written). This summer we holidayed in Provence and she was very impressive with her speech/menu translations; whilst not letting me get shy away completely either. Next year we’re holidaying in the same place again and I’ve committed to making significant improvements to my own very rudimentary schoolboy French. I’ve broken out her old Michel Thomas CD’s and made a start. There are of course many more things available these days, but again, it suits my learning style.
My other half is now pretty fluent in French; she started at school, then brushed up many years later using Michel Thomas and then DuoLingo (more useful for written). This summer we holidayed in Provence and she was very impressive with her speech/menu translations; whilst not letting me get shy away completely either. Next year we’re holidaying in the same place again and I’ve committed to making significant improvements to my own very rudimentary schoolboy French. I’ve broken out her old Michel Thomas CD’s and made a start. There are of course many more things available these days, but again, it suits my learning style.
My missus is a French speaker having grown up in Paris so I have no excuse not to be fluent but I'm not and I've been learning for years. I just struggle with languages. I'm still trying though and improving slowly.
Linguno daily crosswords are a good way to learn vocabulary. I'm using Busuu having got bored with Duolingo. Rosetta Stone was good for learning but I found the software kept forgetting or mixing up my progress. Gave up. Paul Noble podcasts on Spotify for when I'm walking, cycling etc.
Linguno daily crosswords are a good way to learn vocabulary. I'm using Busuu having got bored with Duolingo. Rosetta Stone was good for learning but I found the software kept forgetting or mixing up my progress. Gave up. Paul Noble podcasts on Spotify for when I'm walking, cycling etc.
We've been learning French since Covid, we have a native speaking French teacher who teaches French in a English school, but it's only term time and only half an hour but help us with our grammar and pronunciation. Nothing can beat trying to emerse yourself in the language. I try and watch the French news in the morning (on the app on my phone), and have bought some French car magazines once i was comfortable reading it.
I'm by no means fluent, but i got by for 2 weeks on our summer holiday practicing everyday (and the French do appreciate it when you try) which builds your confidence, but as someone has already said you do have days where you think you'll never get it.
Best of luck, .
I'm by no means fluent, but i got by for 2 weeks on our summer holiday practicing everyday (and the French do appreciate it when you try) which builds your confidence, but as someone has already said you do have days where you think you'll never get it.
Best of luck, .
I did an evening class at the local college and actually got half decent - worked out how French grammar worked, when I don't know how English grammar works which is normally why I find languages difficult.
Although after a six month gap when I actually next went to France I'd forgotten it all.
These days I'm sure there's plenty of online ways to keep speaking it regularly.
Although after a six month gap when I actually next went to France I'd forgotten it all.
These days I'm sure there's plenty of online ways to keep speaking it regularly.
FlyVintage said:
I found Michel Thomas CD’s (yes, it was that long ago) very good as I had at least an hour each way commuting in the car and suited my learning style.
Moi aussi.20+ years ago, Michel Thomas CDs (and having a girlfriend for a couple of years who lived in Paris) improved my French dramatically from its crap school year 9 level.
I am not not fluent, but I am able to structure a sentence and have basic conversations with people. Even now, with visits to France only every couple of years or so, I am able to get by as a tourist and I remember/pick up a few words each time.
The trick is to not be embarrassed. I probably sound like Officer Crabtree.
I shall be using it again later this week.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 3rd September 18:29
Another +1 for Michel Thomas. It's the technique he uses that's different and, dare I say it, genius. You "think" in the language you're learning rather than like you did at school where you think of the sentence then translate it into the language then say it out loud. When I learnt French the school way, it took me until the middle of my A-level to get to the point where I was "thinking" French. (No comments about being a monkey and chewing on cheese while putting my hands up.)
Hoofy said:
Another +1 for Michel Thomas. It's the technique he uses that's different and, dare I say it, genius. You "think" in the language you're learning rather than like you did at school where you think of the sentence then translate it into the language then say it out loud. When I learnt French the school way, it took me until the middle of my A-level to get to the point where I was "thinking" French. (No comments about being a monkey and chewing on cheese while putting my hands up.)
Yes. After a bit of Michel Thomas I had a far better grasp of the structure and rhythm of French than after 3 years of rote learning of vocab and textbooks at school.NaePasaran said:
Despite the outdated stereotype that the French won't speak English and are unhelpful, I've found the complete opposite and they are as friendly as people anywhere, and you can get by without knowing any French fairly easy, I want to learn the language as I feel a bit of an ignorant p**ck. So I've set myself the challenge to learn some of the language for next year's holiday.
However there appears to be no shortage of options for learning and I'm wondering if other people have learnt a language in adulthood and how they did it. In-person class? Online class? Mobile apps? Immersion (podcasts, TV, film, newspapers etc).
Don't think I'll ever be fluent but would be nice to ask for something, receive directions or have a very basic convo with the bar/Caffe person etc etc.
My take, as a 60 year old learning Italian. I've previously studied French and Spanish to GCSE level.However there appears to be no shortage of options for learning and I'm wondering if other people have learnt a language in adulthood and how they did it. In-person class? Online class? Mobile apps? Immersion (podcasts, TV, film, newspapers etc).
Don't think I'll ever be fluent but would be nice to ask for something, receive directions or have a very basic convo with the bar/Caffe person etc etc.
Here is what I have tried:
Group evening class - waste of time. One hour per week of group practice, in a crappy primary school classroom, was a waste of petrol.
Pimsleur Language Course - very limited use. A few useful phrases.
Duolingo - very limited use. I knew how to say "the ant is in the sugar" but not how to ask for a carrier bag. It leads you to believe you are learning more than you are.
Online one-to-one lessons via Preply - this has been the key.
YT videos - essential to learn the "everyday" usage of the language as opposed to the formal, correct use.
After two years of 1-2-1 lessons, two to three times per week, an hour per day independent study, listening to news in Italian and Italian music, Youtube etc I speak Italian to an intermediate level.
I am planning to take the Italian B1 certificate next year. Depending upon the day, I am between B1 and B2 now.
My goal was to become bilingual - C2. But that was before I discovered how hard it is to get to B1. If I don't practice daily I start to lose what I have learned. It is scary. I won't ever be C2 unless I live there and study the language.
I sometimes ponder "is it wise to learn another language, if you don't have to". I think the best places to be are maybe A1/A2 or B2/C1. At the lower level you'll know enough for basic situations, but you and the French will both know you're a beginner. They will appreciate the effort. B1 and I think they'll start to judge you. In fact, I watched a YT video about this which said just that.
How you should do it depends on how quickly you want to learn and how much money you want to spend. I pay £17 for 50 minutes on Preply, but it is the fastest and surest method I have found to progress, if you support it with as much immersion as you can. But if you're in no rush there is a lifetime of free content on Youtube that will enable you to learn, albeit more slowly.
Hoofy said:
Another +1 for Michel Thomas. It's the technique he uses that's different and, dare I say it, genius. You "think" in the language you're learning rather than like you did at school where you think of the sentence then translate it into the language then say it out loud. When I learnt French the school way, it took me until the middle of my A-level to get to the point where I was "thinking" French. (No comments about being a monkey and chewing on cheese while putting my hands up.)
I would agree with Michel Thomas. Paul Noble also uses a simile technique as an alternative. I do think a variety of sources to immerse yourself works best. Listen to radio and watch TV in the language. Read the news. Duolingo is limited I’d agree but no bad thing for a quiz type addition.
Overall just chuck yourself in to as many ways of being exposed as best you can.
I did French at school for 3 years, then dropped it in my options. (nearly 40 years ago now)
However, I did recall the basics (and I really do mean basics)
How do I get to...
Please can I have...
etc
Every year, when we go skiing, I get by with my limited French and it works.
This year, I started doing Duolingo and I was enjoying it. The layout was easy to use and it encouraged you to keep at it.
However, at a certain lesson it just seemed to click over from easy to silly hard and I lost interest in it.
p.s I take it, its not the same Michael Thomas that scored the winning goal for Arsenal in 1989?
However, I did recall the basics (and I really do mean basics)
How do I get to...
Please can I have...
etc
Every year, when we go skiing, I get by with my limited French and it works.
This year, I started doing Duolingo and I was enjoying it. The layout was easy to use and it encouraged you to keep at it.
However, at a certain lesson it just seemed to click over from easy to silly hard and I lost interest in it.
p.s I take it, its not the same Michael Thomas that scored the winning goal for Arsenal in 1989?
A level french here, plus owning a house in France for the last 17 years - although often with minimal contact with locals (because it's very remote).
My biggest struggle was always listening to spoken French - while Duolingo is pretty poor at teaching new useful vocab, it really helped propel my listening skills. And I did learn a lot of useful vocab I had never known.
You need to pay for it to really enjoy the benefits.
My biggest struggle was always listening to spoken French - while Duolingo is pretty poor at teaching new useful vocab, it really helped propel my listening skills. And I did learn a lot of useful vocab I had never known.
You need to pay for it to really enjoy the benefits.
Puggit said:
A level french here, plus owning a house in France for the last 17 years - although often with minimal contact with locals (because it's very remote).
My biggest struggle was always listening to spoken French - while Duolingo is pretty poor at teaching new useful vocab, it really helped propel my listening skills. And I did learn a lot of useful vocab I had never known.
You need to pay for it to really enjoy the benefits.
It’s also why using only one form (CD’s/duolingo) or whatever gives a false impression of oral language as its pace is nothing like reality. That’s where watching local TV or listening to the radio prepares you better. My biggest struggle was always listening to spoken French - while Duolingo is pretty poor at teaching new useful vocab, it really helped propel my listening skills. And I did learn a lot of useful vocab I had never known.
You need to pay for it to really enjoy the benefits.
I've got all the Michel Thomas CDs, I tried to be clever and listen to them on my drive to work which was 30-60 minutes each way at the time.
It was ok for the first week covering the basics, but then when you had to concentrate you miss things as you tuned out to watch the road at junctions/roundabouts and had to skip back 5 minutes to the start of the track.
It was ok for the first week covering the basics, but then when you had to concentrate you miss things as you tuned out to watch the road at junctions/roundabouts and had to skip back 5 minutes to the start of the track.
Shnozz said:
It’s also why using only one form (CD’s/duolingo) or whatever gives a false impression of oral language as its pace is nothing like reality. That’s where watching local TV or listening to the radio prepares you better.
Haha - good luck with that watching Italian TV :-) - I am fairly "ok" at Italian, not much I can't say conversationally and am "fluent" with numerics and other specifics (i.e I don't have to translate in my head 1st), but Italian TV is still a garbled mess to me! :-) The speed they go is insane. Radio adverts are OK though. My god , how well I know "super discount", "100%", "50%", "super sale" :-)Although its true learning from one source isn't perfect, if you get the main verbs its one hell of a headstart. To learn to "be", to "have", to "make/do", to "want/need" gets you up and running fast.
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