Yorkshire to Geneva driving, in two minds about route?
Discussion
Normally I would head to the tunnel, half an hour reading the paper then dash for the mountains. Over the years though I've noticed that at times it takes me almost as long to do the Leeds-Dover trip as it does to do the Calais-Genenva trip due to the traffic/delays/Operation Stack/etc.
This year I'm thinking about maybe Hull-Rotterdam or Zeebrugge and getting a decent kip on ferry and having a fresh start in the morning. From Rotterdam I can nip down past Koln towards Karlsruhe then cut across to Switzerland. Viamichelin seems to think this will take me an hour or so longer than the Calais Geneva route and be about 50Euro cheaper each way because of french toll costs.
Anybody went down that way, how are the roads on the German side (derestricted or busy as feck)? Any hints or suggestions before I go ahead and book myself a nightmare
or should I stick with my tried and tested route?
TIA
This year I'm thinking about maybe Hull-Rotterdam or Zeebrugge and getting a decent kip on ferry and having a fresh start in the morning. From Rotterdam I can nip down past Koln towards Karlsruhe then cut across to Switzerland. Viamichelin seems to think this will take me an hour or so longer than the Calais Geneva route and be about 50Euro cheaper each way because of french toll costs.
Anybody went down that way, how are the roads on the German side (derestricted or busy as feck)? Any hints or suggestions before I go ahead and book myself a nightmare
or should I stick with my tried and tested route?TIA
Re crossing, personally I prefer the Harwich-Hook ferries on Stena.
Newish / refurbished boats on Stena, though it's a long time since I was on the Hull-Europoort route so maybe they've upped their game a bit since then.
The sailing time from Harwich and Hook on the return looks late, but you can board much earlier, get settled in, have a dinner while the boat is still docked, and same again in the morning, boat docks before breakfast. Disembark sfter a full English before the roads get too busy.
Had some lulus of rough crossings on the longer North Sea routes including one from Esbjerg to Harwich where basically you just wedged yourself in the corner of your pit and tried not to be dumped on the cabin floor. That was a fun and sleepless 16 hours I can tell you. Yes I know you're not going to Denmark but just counselling against long North sea crossings in autumn.
edited to add, seeing as the only time I've ever visited Geneva by road I started in Marseilles my experience on routing isn't possibly that relevant.
However I stuck it into the RAC route planner from Hook of Holland and seeing as it took me through Brussels that's even less help.
I'd be tempted to go east and take the drag down through Germany where ime there should be long enough stretches where you can press on to compensate for the congested sections; but that is pure speculation I must admit.
Newish / refurbished boats on Stena, though it's a long time since I was on the Hull-Europoort route so maybe they've upped their game a bit since then.
The sailing time from Harwich and Hook on the return looks late, but you can board much earlier, get settled in, have a dinner while the boat is still docked, and same again in the morning, boat docks before breakfast. Disembark sfter a full English before the roads get too busy.
Had some lulus of rough crossings on the longer North Sea routes including one from Esbjerg to Harwich where basically you just wedged yourself in the corner of your pit and tried not to be dumped on the cabin floor. That was a fun and sleepless 16 hours I can tell you. Yes I know you're not going to Denmark but just counselling against long North sea crossings in autumn.
edited to add, seeing as the only time I've ever visited Geneva by road I started in Marseilles my experience on routing isn't possibly that relevant.
However I stuck it into the RAC route planner from Hook of Holland and seeing as it took me through Brussels that's even less help.
I'd be tempted to go east and take the drag down through Germany where ime there should be long enough stretches where you can press on to compensate for the congested sections; but that is pure speculation I must admit.
Edited by F i F on Monday 2nd November 16:08
I know about the route through Lille and Reims. It's not a lot different from the route from Calais. If I'm going to do that route I might as well drive down to Ashford and do the tunnel.
I was looking at Rotterdam-down through Germany-head into Switzerland from the north and stop for a days boarding somewhere on the way to Geneva type of thing.
Nobody?
ETA: F i F - it's the long ferry in the winter that bothers me mainly. If it's expected to be rough I'll maybe sack it off and go the normal way.
I was looking at Rotterdam-down through Germany-head into Switzerland from the north and stop for a days boarding somewhere on the way to Geneva type of thing.
Nobody?
ETA: F i F - it's the long ferry in the winter that bothers me mainly. If it's expected to be rough I'll maybe sack it off and go the normal way.
Edited by speed8 on Tuesday 3rd November 14:12
You could come down through Germany driving alongside the Rhine. A beautiful drive! Often you will be driving through the spectacular scenery racing the train and passing big river barges all the while driving through quintessential German villages.
... unless you want to be blasting down in the shortest time possible.
... unless you want to be blasting down in the shortest time possible.
I normally always sack off the Ferry Idea due to the time on board. I may be wrong but from Hull is it not 12hrs + ?
We have always gone Leeds > Mercedes World > Ashford (staying over) and then catching a really early Eurotunnel to be in Geneva for about 2 'o' clock the next day. best time so far Calais to Geneva was 7 Hours.
We have always gone Leeds > Mercedes World > Ashford (staying over) and then catching a really early Eurotunnel to be in Geneva for about 2 'o' clock the next day. best time so far Calais to Geneva was 7 Hours.
Adam T said:
I normally always sack off the Ferry Idea due to the time on board. I may be wrong but from Hull is it not 12hrs + ?
Unless a significant amount of time on the ferry is spent in a cabin asleep (or otherwise occupied fnar fnar) and which also replaces an overnight stop somewhere else along the route.The other factor that I didn't mention on earlier post and OP hasn't really stated is whether the roadtrip part of the exercise is a genuine break or just a means to an end. Appreciate that is sacrilege on PH but bear with me.
If the main intent is get A>B with least pain, and there isn't much of a desire to " drive along the Rhine" as another poster mentioned, then for me the preferential choice of eventual route will always be slanted in favour of a) shortest route (within reason) and b) a familiar route that is known to work over an unfamiliar one.
Problem with that is all familiar routes were once unfamiliar ones.
Re OP questions about Germany, I can say I have had some hellish fast runs down the E31(?) from Dusseldorf(ish) towards Stuttgart(ish) and if the E35(?) is as good from where it intersects with the E31 and heads off down towards Basel then that's potentially a lot of miles covered at good pace.
But that was a couple of years back.
HTH.
FiF
E31 and E35 were the roads of choice for the Germany run (yes, it's a means to an end rather than a scenic jaunt). It'll be in the depths of December so the ferry idea was to get a relaxing evening before the slog to Geneva rather than fighting the M1/M25/M20 before getting a few hours kip in a hotel in Ashford and then up at the crack of dawn for a tunnel. I could leave later for Hull, have a relaxing dinner, a good, long, sleep and then up for brekkie before hitting the autobahn. However, that plan goes to pot if the E31 and E35 are Germanys equivalent of the M1 (in terms of traffic and progress rate).
The problem with your plan to my mind is the hotel in Ashford before Chunnelling. It means that on your second day you have a lot of time phaffing and pharting about getting up, going to the tunnel, checking in, waiting, bla di bla.
I like to get over onto the other side on my first day then have a halt planned an hour or two after disembarking. Second day good start and covering distance asap.
Plus looking at the map; what are you adding to the journey if going via Germany, 100 miles ish? Seems a lot in the hope of getting faster roads plus having to do more miles in CH. hmmm.
OK, how good are you and passengers at sea crossings, as in keeping down your breakfast-wise? Any doubts then Chunnel and normal route imho. Stabilisers can only do so much when it really kicks up. I've had several crossings where there were only about ten of us in for breakfast, plus one crossing when even "cast iron guts" here didn't make the restaurant. But then on the other hand I've had several crossings in late Nov/December which were absolute mill pond conditions.
Sorry that's not too helpful in making a decision is it, but just how I have found it.
Good luck.
I like to get over onto the other side on my first day then have a halt planned an hour or two after disembarking. Second day good start and covering distance asap.
Plus looking at the map; what are you adding to the journey if going via Germany, 100 miles ish? Seems a lot in the hope of getting faster roads plus having to do more miles in CH. hmmm.
OK, how good are you and passengers at sea crossings, as in keeping down your breakfast-wise? Any doubts then Chunnel and normal route imho. Stabilisers can only do so much when it really kicks up. I've had several crossings where there were only about ten of us in for breakfast, plus one crossing when even "cast iron guts" here didn't make the restaurant. But then on the other hand I've had several crossings in late Nov/December which were absolute mill pond conditions.
Sorry that's not too helpful in making a decision is it, but just how I have found it.
Good luck.
Just to close this thread out.
I ended up booking the hull-rotterdam ferry in November. As it happens, lady luck must have been smiling on me as the crossing last night was supremely smooth. On top of that, eurotunnel was closed and Operation Stack was still running on the M20 so I had no hope in hell of making the tunnel/channel had I gone that way.
The drive down through Holland and Germany was more hassle than my usual route through France but I think the roads were probably not normal due to the weather. Switzerland wasn't too bad although I may have got flashed by a camera within about 1km of passing the border. Still, not bad progress. 10 hrs from Rotterdam to Morzine (as near as dammit), including fuel stops, sat nav cock ups (i ended up buying a map) and traffic jams (of which there were a few due to trucks broken down).
I'd do it again I think, especially in the winter, but I still prefer the tunnel for sheer simplicity.
I ended up booking the hull-rotterdam ferry in November. As it happens, lady luck must have been smiling on me as the crossing last night was supremely smooth. On top of that, eurotunnel was closed and Operation Stack was still running on the M20 so I had no hope in hell of making the tunnel/channel had I gone that way.
The drive down through Holland and Germany was more hassle than my usual route through France but I think the roads were probably not normal due to the weather. Switzerland wasn't too bad although I may have got flashed by a camera within about 1km of passing the border. Still, not bad progress. 10 hrs from Rotterdam to Morzine (as near as dammit), including fuel stops, sat nav cock ups (i ended up buying a map) and traffic jams (of which there were a few due to trucks broken down).
I'd do it again I think, especially in the winter, but I still prefer the tunnel for sheer simplicity.
Redarress said:
Don't forget that if you pass in to Switzerland you will be stung for their annual road tax. I think its about £50 to £60 from memory.You do however get a very nice little sticker to put in you windscreen in return for your dosh 
It's not a road tax, it's a toll for using the motorways. If you don't use the motorways you don't have to pay it, but then you will make rather slow progress!It's about 40-50CHF from memory, which is £20-30, but you still have to pay it even if you're only doing the 10km from the French border to Geneva Airport once! You do get a nice sticker which lasts a year as you mentioned, but it does deform if you try to peel it off and pass it on to someone else, so make sure you apply it v.lightly! (although the border cops are wise to this ruse and will watch you put it on if they are not too busy).
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