Nothing like a few days in France

[silverthorn2151]

To remind you just how much simple pleasure can be had from driving.

Went from Calais to Normandy staying at Honfleur then a couple of days driving around on a mix of roads and got back last night.

Nothing but pleasure, good clear roads, overtaking a breeze, hardly any cameras or les gendarmes, terrific lane discipline.

A few hundred miles in France should be part of the driving test! I DID encounter a few wallies in France as you might expect, but in both cases they looked to be over 100, wearing berets and driving 2cv vans...(I kid you not). But as they were driving half up the verge at 20mph, they didn't hold things up too much.

And then you get off the ferry in Dover...........shameful, that's the only way to describe the driving experience on the way back. Idiots in the outside lane with phone stuck to ear, racing chavmobiles with dustbin exhausts, undertakers up a busy A2, tts with front foglights on and such aggression in a hold up at the Blackwall Tunnel as to be beyond belief.

Frankly, I was embarrassed!

[marlinmunro]

[chard]

I've covered many miles in France roads and drivers (generally) very good. Worth keeping an eye on the speed north of Paris the Feds are always on the look-out for careless brits heading to and from the Ports.

[flamez]

Were you in the Radical lol

[silverthorn2151]

chard said:

I've covered many miles in France roads and drivers (generally) very good. Worth keeping an eye on the speed north of Paris the Feds are always on the look-out for careless brits heading to and from the Ports.

Oh I was very focussed on that once I got beyond Abbeville heading back but perhaps they were all sitting in a cafe somewhere.

No, sadly not the Radical, lol. I was enjoying topless stuff in the Saab with SWMBO (wedding anniversary) whilst my chums were busting it's driveshaft at Brands. Still c'est la vie.

Came accross country from Honfleur to Rouen (off motorway). Some simply fabulous roads! Learnt today that the French GP was held at Rouen just south of the city on a street circuit for many years. Either I didn't know that or had forgotten, but had I known I might have hunted the roads out although t'interweb says that the French have erased all evidence.

Can't wait to go back and explore some more to be honest.

[OnTheOverrun]

The problem is you're comparing rural France with urban Britain. Drive round Paris or Marseilles and it's just as bad, much as I love driving over there.

The only bad bit is driving between 1pm and 4pm when drink-driving appears not to be an offence in France!

Edited by OnTheOverrun on Saturday 31st October 18:22

[Orb the Impaler]

silverthorn2151 said:

And then you get off the ferry in Dover...........shameful, that's the only way to describe the driving experience ....
Frankly, I was embarrassed!

Stunning, isn't it?
It's getting to be truly hateful over here, it really is.

[PomBstard]

Orb the Impaler said:

silverthorn2151 said:

And then you get off the ferry in Dover...........shameful, that's the only way to describe the driving experience ....
Frankly, I was embarrassed!

Stunning, isn't it?
It's getting to be truly hateful over here, it really is.

Aside from the physical problem of getting a car ferry from France to Australia, the difference would be even greater if you were to roll-off in Sydney. Driving standards here are simply breathtaking in their inadequacy.

I miss driving in France. You don't have to go too far to find a great combination of road and traffic - one of life's pleasures

[Stephanie Plum]

I get over to France in my cars as often as I can. An hour from Calais and it's like a different world.

[silverthorn2151]

OnTheOverrun said:

The problem is you're comparing rural France with urban Britain. Drive round Paris or Marseilles and it's just as bad, much as I love driving over there.

The only bad bit is driving between 1pm and 4pm when drink-driving appears not to be an offence in France!

Edited by OnTheOverrun on Saturday 31st October 18:22

Well I partly agree.

I would say that driving in some French cities is an experience one never forgets! There are NO rules, but it seems to work....don't know how.....but it does. Mind you there aren't many cars without dents! My rule is, drive in on the biggest road you can find, park as soon as you see somewhere and walk!!!

[V8mate]

I got back from just over 1400 miles of driving round France a couple of hours ago.

Generally, France is st, but the roads are lovely. So much space, whether it's sitting on a trunk road with the cruise on watching the world go by, or pretending my car is a Ferrari as I tear round the bends going up and down the Vosges mountains, the driving certainly is great.

And the OP is correct. Back on the A2/M2 and then M25 with the loonies and an empty nearside lane

Reinforces how quickly I need to vacate this dying country (but not live in France either )

[Flip Martian]

Picked up a hire car at Lyons airport last month and drove for 3 hours on a mix of roads to the village in Burgundy where we were staying. Far far less stressful than similar journeys over here. Driving over there was an absolute joy the whole time. I can only imagine how enjoyable driving over there must be in a convertible or sports car. Maybe an experience for next time if the budget allows.

[heebeegeetee]

V8mate said:

Generally, France is st,

You're gonna have to remind me, point out one aspect of stness to me cos right now i can't think of any.

We spent a fortnight in France and didn't spot one single piece of litter, i mean really, not one. We get off the ferry to come home and drive to warwick services in one hit, pull up in the car park and we just sat there and surveyed the litter and filth all around.

We walk towards the services past all the signs telling how you can only park for free for two hours and woe *betide* you if you stay late and all the penalties are listed in varying degrees of severity, and the signs telling you not to be violent to the staff, and, and, and all you want to do is climb back into the car and drive straight back to Dover again and straight back onto that ferry, straight back to a land of charm and freedom.

[smack]

Honfleur is a lovely place to stay at.

[silverthorn2151]

smack said:

Honfleur is a lovely place to stay at.

Fabulous isn't it. We stayed at the Mercure Hotel, I say that only to point out that it has a secure private car park behind the hotel. Parking is at a bit of a premium in Honfleur so any PH's might like to know they can park the shiny toys ok.

We drove along the coast to the invasion beaches. What a fabulous drive and such a brilliant part of the world. I can imagine it being a bit more difficult in full season though.

I'm afraid I have to agree too, I can't think of a single ste thing and I know just what you mean about turning round and heading back!

[V8mate]

heebeegeetee said:

V8mate said:

Generally, France is st,

You're gonna have to remind me, point out one aspect of stness to me cos right now i can't think of any.

We spent a fortnight in France and didn't spot one single piece of litter, i mean really, not one. We get off the ferry to come home and drive to warwick services in one hit, pull up in the car park and we just sat there and surveyed the litter and filth all around.

We walk towards the services past all the signs telling how you can only park for free for two hours and woe *betide* you if you stay late and all the penalties are listed in varying degrees of severity, and the signs telling you not to be violent to the staff, and, and, and all you want to do is climb back into the car and drive straight back to Dover again and straight back onto that ferry, straight back to a land of charm and freedom.

OK. You've made something of an assumption about my comment but, as the originator of said comment, I'll take responsibility for clarifying it.

I didn't say that France was st compared to England. England is, certainly and generally, more st than France.

However, I still wouldn't want to live there.

Why?

The prices have gone mad over the last few years. I appreciate that part of that will be down to our exchange rate suffering, but in spite of that I can't see how French people can afford to live there either! E2.90-3.00 for a 25cl beer? WTF? That works out to E6.82 a pint. And a couple of weeks ago the exchange rate was pretty close to 1:1. Snack lunch for two costing E15-20; just ridiculous.

Mrs V8 and I are not tourist-trap types. Wherever we travel in the world we always look for places which locals use, whether bars/cafes or restaurants. Either that or acknowledge a higher price by following a respected third-party guide (so Michelin in France). Well, unless cafe/bars all over France have colluded to type out all their menus especially for foreigners and all the locals have a special wink to get stuff at 50% off, I really don't understand their pricing structure.

Now, in some countries you might argue that there is a vast gap between the cafe/eating out culture and the cost of living for locals who shop differently/eat at home etc. Well, again, having got up at the crack of dawn a couple of times, to be at local markets for 06.30, whilst the appeal of the produce was high, so were the prices. And, even in the hypermarkets, French cheeses, for example, were actually more expensive than they are in any British supermarket and the usual 'last day, grab and take home' items have all just gone up so much.

So that's the cost of France.

Then there's attitude. Shops seem to be run purely for the owner's convenience. Nice, I'm sure we could argue for the small-business person's work-life balance, but having an opening hours sign which reads like a story really is too 'sigh-ful' for their potential customers. They'll be closed Sundays, of course, then they'll be closed one day during the week because the whole village closes, then they'll have an extra morning off and probably one extra afternoon too. They're all closed from 12.00 until 14.00 too. Ok, so you get your head (and shopping habits) round that, so pop along at 2.30 one afternoon (usual hours 14.00-18.30) to be greeted by a 'back at 17.00' sign.

You start to understand why France sucks the life out of the EU and, in spite of its size and population, is only barely a net contributor.

And the fact that outlets often carry such a narrow range so as to miss out on complemetary items is frustrating. If you want a coffee, go to a cafe. If you want a croissant, go to a baker. Want a coffee and a croissant? Tough. Purveyors of both, simultaneously, few and far between.

Want a bottle of wine? Pop to an off-licence. Want a can of coke at the same time? No chance.

I kind of understand that such a practice means that many more people can open their own little business (according to their own set of trading hours!) but would I want to live within such a retail regime? No.

So. What's next? How about civic pride?
Large towns and villages alike are universally crumbling and decaying. Now, as we cruise on through, we might use terms like 'quaint', 'full of character' or somehow charming in a bohemian kind of way but, let's face it, they simply couldn't give a st about how their boroughs or homesteads look. To be perfectly honest, many locations looked as if the troops and tanks had only left town a matter of hours previously. Now, I understand that different cultures have different priorities and that I shouldn't be imposing my own view of the world on the good men and women of France, but a few moments taken to remove your dog's st from the pavement or to to give your shutters a wash are just good manners, IMHO.

Another thing which I wouldn't get on with if I were resident is the limited opportunites for doing things in the evenings. The French seem such 'home-bodies' that many towns, busy by day, are almost completly deserted after 7pm, even on a Friday night! Take Epernay, for example, a town which has grown rich on the back of the over-priced goods it peddles the world over, is by day, a thriving centre. After dark? Closed. We walked round the entire central area and, with the exception of a small restaurant attached to a hotel (one couple dining and a glass of non-vintage champagne charged at E10, more expensive than the champagne bar at St Pancras station), there was nothing open and not a soul around. Bizarre how the day-time experience of the town entirely belies the non-tourist off-peak face. Had I been holidaying for any duration in the region, I would have been devastated. To live there; no way.

I could go on.

I don't want this to turn into an argument.

These are my opinions based on twenty-plus years of regularly visiting France as well as bang uptodate experiences (having got back yesterday from a week there). And, of course, all I have done here are mention some of the downsides, as I see them. I mentioned good things in my earlier post above and there are, of course, many more too. It's just that, taking everything in to account, France is not a place I would want to live which I would consider, overall, to be such a significant improvement over England as to warrant moving country. The issues are very different, but they are, nonetheless, issues which would affect the (my) quality of life.

Now, as for Germany on the other hand...

Edited by V8mate on Sunday 1st November 11:33

[silverthorn2151]

Golly.

Well, there is much to what you say and you won't find me arguing with it. That's not to say that I don't find most of those aspects of french life you mention appealing. Perhaps it's the contrast with London life that makes it so.

What I do have to agree most strongly with is yourcomment about the price of everything! How can the french manage? E30 - E40 for a couple of omlettes etc at lunch was staggering. We have always grabbed some local stuff on the way back but this time ended up thinking I can get it cheaper at Morrisons/Sainsburys etc etc so didn't bother.

France is France and England is England I suppose. Vive La Diffference.

[heebeegeetee]

V8mate said:

OK. You've made something of an assumption about my comment but, as the originator of said comment, I'll take responsibility for clarifying it.

I didn't say that France was st compared to England. England is, certainly and generally, more st than France.

However, I still wouldn't want to live there.

Why?

The prices have gone mad over the last few years. I appreciate that part of that will be down to our exchange rate suffering, but in spite of that I can't see how French people can afford to live there either! E2.90-3.00 for a 25cl beer? WTF? That works out to E6.82 a pint. And a couple of weeks ago the exchange rate was pretty close to 1:1. Snack lunch for two costing E15-20; just ridiculous.

Mrs V8 and I are not tourist-trap types. Wherever we travel in the world we always look for places which locals use, whether bars/cafes or restaurants. Either that or acknowledge a higher price by following a respected third-party guide (so Michelin in France). Well, unless cafe/bars all over France have colluded to type out all their menus especially for foreigners and all the locals have a special wink to get stuff at 50% off, I really don't understand their pricing structure.

Now, in some countries you might argue that there is a vast gap between the cafe/eating out culture and the cost of living for locals who shop differently/eat at home etc. Well, again, having got up at the crack of dawn a couple of times, to be at local markets for 06.30, whilst the appeal of the produce was high, so were the prices. And, even in the hypermarkets, French cheeses, for example, were actually more expensive than they are in any British supermarket and the usual 'last day, grab and take home' items have all just gone up so much.

So that's the cost of France.

Then there's attitude. Shops seem to be run purely for the owner's convenience. Nice, I'm sure we could argue for the small-business person's work-life balance, but having an opening hours sign which reads like a story really is too 'sigh-ful' for their potential customers. They'll be closed Sundays, of course, then they'll be closed one day during the week because the whole village closes, then they'll have an extra morning off and probably one extra afternoon too. They're all closed from 12.00 until 14.00 too. Ok, so you get your head (and shopping habits) round that, so pop along at 2.30 one afternoon (usual hours 14.00-18.30) to be greeted by a 'back at 17.00' sign.

You start to understand why France sucks the life out of the EU and, in spite of its size and population, is only barely a net contributor.

And the fact that outlets often carry such a narrow range so as to miss out on complemetary items is frustrating. If you want a coffee, go to a cafe. If you want a croissant, go to a baker. Want a coffee and a croissant? Tough. Purveyors of both, simultaneously, few and far between.

Want a bottle of wine? Pop to an off-licence. Want a can of coke at the same time? No chance.

I kind of understand that such a practice means that many more people can open their own little business (according to their own set of trading hours!) but would I want to live within such a retail regime? No.

So. What's next? How about civic pride?
Large towns and villages alike are universally crumbling and decaying. Now, as we cruise on through, we might use terms like 'quaint', 'full of character' or somehow charming in a bohemian kind of way but, let's face it, they simply couldn't give a st about how their boroughs or homesteads look. To be perfectly honest, many locations looked as if the troops and tanks had only left town a matter of hours previously. Now, I understand that different cultures have different priorities and that I shouldn't be imposing my own view of the world on the good men and women of France, but a few moments taken to remove your dog's st from the pavement or to to give your shutters a wash are just good manners, IMHO.

Another thing which I wouldn't get on with if I were resident is the limited opportunites for doing things in the evenings. The French seem such 'home-bodies' that many towns, busy by day, are almost completly deserted after 7pm, even on a Friday night! Take Epernay, for example, a town which has grown rich on the back of the over-priced goods it peddles the world over, is by day, a thriving centre. After dark? Closed. We walked round the entire central area and, with the exception of a small restaurant attached to a hotel (one couple dining and a glass of non-vintage champagne charged at E10, more expensive than the champagne bar at St Pancras station), there was nothing open and not a soul around. Bizarre how the day-time experience of the town entirely belies the non-tourist off-peak face. Had I been holidaying for any duration in the region, I would have been devastated. To live there; no way.

I could go on.

I don't want this to turn into an argument.

These are my opinions based on twenty-plus years of regularly visiting France as well as bang uptodate experiences (having got back yesterday from a week there). And, of course, all I have done here are mention some of the downsides, as I see them. I mentioned good things in my earlier post above and there are, of course, many more too. It's just that, taking everything in to account, France is not a place I would want to live which I would consider, overall, to be such a significant improvement over England as to warrant moving country. The issues are very different, but they are, nonetheless, issues which would affect the (my) quality of life.

Now, as for Germany on the other hand...

Fair comments, and no, i'm not looking for an argument either, just a chat, that's all.

Isn't all of Europe expensive at the moment? A friend has just been on a sailing holiday in Greece, couldn't his hat at how prices have gone, couldn't get a shower for less than a fiver anywhere.

We have a Turkish forklift truck driver at work, he went home for the holidays and all he could talk about on return is how bloody expensive everything was. He has family in Istanbul but he also has property in his village which is on the far side, a couple of hours from Iran, and even out there he reckoned the price of everything was shocking.

Openeing hours, i think the french have got it right. yes, it drives us nuts too at times, even the 8-8 closes for lunch. . But hey, in the UK we've shopped and consumerised ourselves into bankruptcy twice over, so who's got it right? And it's not just France either don't forget, Germany is similar, their shops only open one saturday in the month and not on Sundays, you can't even use a car wash on Sunday. Isn't most of europe the same? Does anyone apart from us indulge in the madness of Sunday trading (which on its own must mean the UK is always the most polluting country in Europe?)

Civic pride? I can't agree there. We've seen a lot of France in recent years and I can't think of where you mean. They're not like the Germans, no, but so what?

Limited opportunities? You might be right, but i don't think we're in a position to judge, imo.

You know, 'cos of prices we only ate at three restaurants local to where we stayed, in three price brackets: a pizzeria, a nice 'mid-range' restaurant, and a "posh" place. And i would give all 3 establishments 9 out of ten for food and service within their contexts. We ate at a couple of touristy places elsewhere, and all were excellent. Everywhere we seem to go nowadays in France, everyone is friendly and courteous and everywhere is just nice to go to. I love France and i'd definitely live there, without hesitation. Yes, life would take getting used to, but so would everywhere else.

But i do agree on the EC thing. I really do think that we should not be paying a penny into europe because nobody wants to work as hard as us. But again, that's our fault, because we've been/are mugs.

Edited by heebeegeetee on Sunday 1st November 21:42