Puzzled by extreme belief
Discussion
What is it about foreign nationals coming to Britain, being naturalised, having a family and settling down to a decent life, only to have their offspring born in Britain suddenly rebel and embrace the most extreme beliefs and actions?
Must be very bewildering for them. It's a bit more than the average teen going 'Kevin'.
There must be an answer.
Must be very bewildering for them. It's a bit more than the average teen going 'Kevin'.
There must be an answer.
People by nature are impressionable, there's absolutely no doubt about that. When somebody on a stage says make some noise, people tend to make some noise. 
I think we've evolved to respect leadership as it's the fundamental basis of a civilised society that's apparent throughout the animal kingdom. A big loud voice was probabl a handy way of stopping us eating each other.
I went to the US recently and was absolutely astonished by the TV and radio preachers. I've seen them in parody but didn't realise just how shameless they are.
They simply appear on TV and radio and say, "send me $300 and a miracle will happen within a month," or "if you send me $1,000 your business will take off". There was no disguise, cunning tricks or sleight of hand, it was just, "give me money because I'm religious."
It was so ridiculous that I didn't think anybody could fall for it... until they'd cut to a shot of an American football stadium packed with tens of thousands of people hanging on every word.
So the tragic reality is that, unfortunately, being a good leader does not necessarily mean you're a good person. You can be as thick as pigs
t, a total aholes or evil to the core, but if you have the right patter you can get people to listen to you.
I think we've evolved to respect leadership as it's the fundamental basis of a civilised society that's apparent throughout the animal kingdom. A big loud voice was probabl a handy way of stopping us eating each other.
I went to the US recently and was absolutely astonished by the TV and radio preachers. I've seen them in parody but didn't realise just how shameless they are.
They simply appear on TV and radio and say, "send me $300 and a miracle will happen within a month," or "if you send me $1,000 your business will take off". There was no disguise, cunning tricks or sleight of hand, it was just, "give me money because I'm religious."
It was so ridiculous that I didn't think anybody could fall for it... until they'd cut to a shot of an American football stadium packed with tens of thousands of people hanging on every word.
So the tragic reality is that, unfortunately, being a good leader does not necessarily mean you're a good person. You can be as thick as pigs
t, a total aholes or evil to the core, but if you have the right patter you can get people to listen to you.I think theres an element of not being able to adapt enough to be able to succeed in mainstream society.
If these people can't fit in and succeed in the mainstream (or think that the mainstream has let them down) then they can end up searching for somewhere more accepting (i.e. Islam) and end up wanting to lash out against popular society in anger.
I've seen and known of a fair few muslims who try and fit into popular society (with all the sex and drinking etc), but just don't know how to as its so foreign to how they've been brought up. Once they gave up trying they ended up turning the other way and becoming more hardcore in their beliefs as a sort of survival mechanism I'm guessing. Rather be a confident religious person than a feeble member of mainstream society. Sad.
If these people can't fit in and succeed in the mainstream (or think that the mainstream has let them down) then they can end up searching for somewhere more accepting (i.e. Islam) and end up wanting to lash out against popular society in anger.
I've seen and known of a fair few muslims who try and fit into popular society (with all the sex and drinking etc), but just don't know how to as its so foreign to how they've been brought up. Once they gave up trying they ended up turning the other way and becoming more hardcore in their beliefs as a sort of survival mechanism I'm guessing. Rather be a confident religious person than a feeble member of mainstream society. Sad.
Edited by Shay HTFC on Friday 24th May 21:24
Shay HTFC said:
I think theres an element of not being able to adapt enough to be able to succeed in mainstream society.
If these people can't fit in and succeed in the mainstream (or think that the mainstream has let them down) then they can end up searching for somewhere more accepting (i.e. Islam) and end up wanting to lash out against popular society in anger.
I've seen and known of a fair few muslims who try and fit into popular society (with all the sex and drinking etc), but just don't know how to as its so foreign to how they've been brought up. Once they gave up trying they ended up turning the other way and becoming more hardcore in their beliefs as a sort of survival mechanism I'm guessing. Rather be a confident religious person than a feeble member of mainstream society. Sad.
I think you have some good points there. Kids brought up on a strict code see their friends being allowed all the good stuff and they are not? When they get old enough they decide to do something about it. May be something to do with amount of disposable income too. Pure old fashioned jealousy. "If I can't have it, no-one can have it" If these people can't fit in and succeed in the mainstream (or think that the mainstream has let them down) then they can end up searching for somewhere more accepting (i.e. Islam) and end up wanting to lash out against popular society in anger.
I've seen and known of a fair few muslims who try and fit into popular society (with all the sex and drinking etc), but just don't know how to as its so foreign to how they've been brought up. Once they gave up trying they ended up turning the other way and becoming more hardcore in their beliefs as a sort of survival mechanism I'm guessing. Rather be a confident religious person than a feeble member of mainstream society. Sad.
Edited by Shay HTFC on Friday 24th May 21:24
Stuartggray said:
What is it about foreign nationals coming to Britain, being naturalised, having a family and settling down to a decent life, only to have their offspring born in Britain suddenly rebel and embrace the most extreme beliefs and actions?
Must be very bewildering for them. It's a bit more than the average teen going 'Kevin'.
There must be an answer.
Must be very bewildering for them. It's a bit more than the average teen going 'Kevin'.
There must be an answer.
People have a structure they live within and justify actions using this.
During vietnam it was because my commander told me to, in extremism it's because a higher authority said do...humans are power hungry, violent, tribal in nature and never satisfied - they just need a mechanism to ratify against as a coping strategy.
Buddhist peaceful right? Someone has provided them with a framework where they are rationalising killing other people!!!
The media dont help.
The word muslim is almost entirely negative to my mind, as 9/10 instances in which I heard the word is used, a story of terrorism or hatred is being told.
If you counted them all up, sorted them into nice folk and nasty folk, the larger group would likely be 99% decent people.
What influence will the media lose, if they stop isolating and reporting on the negatives of society etc.
The word muslim is almost entirely negative to my mind, as 9/10 instances in which I heard the word is used, a story of terrorism or hatred is being told.
If you counted them all up, sorted them into nice folk and nasty folk, the larger group would likely be 99% decent people.
What influence will the media lose, if they stop isolating and reporting on the negatives of society etc.
Who the hell wants 72 virgins anyway. That many women, none of whom know what to do. What a nightmare. And you'd never get in the bloody bathroom, and as for Match of the Day, forget it.
Not to mention 72 mothers in law.
No, give me one woman, who knows how many beans make five. In fact, I think I'll stick with the wife, if it's all the same to you.
Not to mention 72 mothers in law.
No, give me one woman, who knows how many beans make five. In fact, I think I'll stick with the wife, if it's all the same to you.
Mobsta said:
The media dont help.
The word muslim is almost entirely negative to my mind, as 9/10 instances in which I heard the word is used, a story of terrorism or hatred is being told.
If you counted them all up, sorted them into nice folk and nasty folk, the larger group would likely be 99% decent people.
What influence will the media lose, if they stop isolating and reporting on the negatives of society etc.
+1The word muslim is almost entirely negative to my mind, as 9/10 instances in which I heard the word is used, a story of terrorism or hatred is being told.
If you counted them all up, sorted them into nice folk and nasty folk, the larger group would likely be 99% decent people.
What influence will the media lose, if they stop isolating and reporting on the negatives of society etc.
Couldn't have put it better.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Who the hell wants 72 virgins anyway. That many women, none of whom know what to do. What a nightmare. And you'd never get in the bloody bathroom, and as for Match of the Day, forget it.
Not to mention 72 mothers in law.
No, give me one woman, who knows how many beans make five. In fact, I think I'll stick with the wife, if it's all the same to you.
I thought you were going to do that Frankie Boyle joke.Not to mention 72 mothers in law.
No, give me one woman, who knows how many beans make five. In fact, I think I'll stick with the wife, if it's all the same to you.
"Forget 72 virgins, I'll give you 20 w
es... or one woman from Dundee."I just want to say thank fk some people in today's society are able to use their brains to think rationally and individually rather than jumping on bandwagons spouting about EDL and BNP.
I think Mobsta's point about how the media portrays the word Muslim has a definite negative effect despite the fact the vast majority of them are not of that kind that feel the need to do anything considered extremeist.
IMO its the media outlets that are the problem try conjur fear and hate just to make a story. It's terribly sad.
k some people in today's society are able to use their brains to think rationally and individually rather than jumping on bandwagons spouting about EDL and BNP.I think Mobsta's point about how the media portrays the word Muslim has a definite negative effect despite the fact the vast majority of them are not of that kind that feel the need to do anything considered extremeist.
IMO its the media outlets that are the problem try conjur fear and hate just to make a story. It's terribly sad.
NightRunner said:
Jasandjules said:
Dumb people can be brain washed by more intelligent people. Sad, but true.
Ever wondered why if you get 72 Virgins the really high up guys aren't first in the queue for the suicide bombs?!?!
Pyramid scheme Ever wondered why if you get 72 Virgins the really high up guys aren't first in the queue for the suicide bombs?!?!
Jasandjules said:
Dumb people can be brain washed by more intelligent people. Sad, but true.
Ever wondered why if you get 72 Virgins the really high up guys aren't first in the queue for the suicide bombs?!?!
(To paraphrase an old Eddie Izzard sketch) "We're going to run out of Virgins at this rate"Ever wondered why if you get 72 Virgins the really high up guys aren't first in the queue for the suicide bombs?!?!
I think the whole 72 virgins thing is a misnomer. I very much doubt that is what the majority of terrorists to commit their acts -infact to think so is just stupid IMO.
One of the main (more recent) reasons will be the fact that see people like them being killed en mass abroad by the west (i.e foreign policy) - with the internet it is very easy to focus in on all the suffering and possible inequalities in the way muslims are treated or perceived. I think that is what drives it.
And essentially as someone said, smarter people can get others to do their work if they can find people who they can hook on specific issues.
One of the main (more recent) reasons will be the fact that see people like them being killed en mass abroad by the west (i.e foreign policy) - with the internet it is very easy to focus in on all the suffering and possible inequalities in the way muslims are treated or perceived. I think that is what drives it.
And essentially as someone said, smarter people can get others to do their work if they can find people who they can hook on specific issues.
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