English school vs Chinese school
Discussion
Saw a program on catch up about some Chinese teachers coming over to teach a class of English students.
Having seen the way some of the English students acted even though they knew they were being filmed sort of sums up why most English students are on average about 3 years behind Chinese students between the ages of 12 and 16.
One particular little brat with no concept of why she was in a classroom pro-actively disrupted the teacher and her class'mates'; and she was just one of a number within the classroom that were disruptive.
As one of the Chinese teachers summed it up quite nicely; that in China if you don't gain knowledge you don't get any work, and if you don't get work you are going to struggle to find anyone to pay for your life.
But here in England there is a mind-set that if you basically can't be ar$ed and give up without wishing to spend any effort then you have an entitlement to be saved by the taxpayer.
Is it this fundamental that causes English students to act in the way that they do?
This fundamental element meaning that parents have reduced interest in seeing their sprogs do as well as they should, so there's less discipline coming from family?
Having seen the way some of the English students acted even though they knew they were being filmed sort of sums up why most English students are on average about 3 years behind Chinese students between the ages of 12 and 16.
One particular little brat with no concept of why she was in a classroom pro-actively disrupted the teacher and her class'mates'; and she was just one of a number within the classroom that were disruptive.
As one of the Chinese teachers summed it up quite nicely; that in China if you don't gain knowledge you don't get any work, and if you don't get work you are going to struggle to find anyone to pay for your life.
But here in England there is a mind-set that if you basically can't be ar$ed and give up without wishing to spend any effort then you have an entitlement to be saved by the taxpayer.
Is it this fundamental that causes English students to act in the way that they do?
This fundamental element meaning that parents have reduced interest in seeing their sprogs do as well as they should, so there's less discipline coming from family?
AA999 said:
But here in England there is a mind-set that if you basically can't be ar$ed and give up without wishing to spend any effort then you have an entitlement to be saved by the taxpayer.
Not sure about this bit. I could have done a hell of a lot better at school than I did, but I never thought the taxpayer was going to look after me, I didn't really think about it at all. I just thought things would work out ok and that I would support myself, though I didn't know how at that time.Things did work out ok, BTW.
I know what you're saying, but its more that this fundamental is not installed in to the kids by the parents. And if the parents are not installing discipline (as they have a mind-set that its the child's happiness rather than success being the most important factor when in school), then it shows in the classroom and hinders progression.
What is education for?
Is the Chinese model one we should all strive for?
How do we know that China will ultimately benefit from having a well educated population? To be honest, I would guess that a very large number of Chinese children do NOT receive such a great education - especially in the rural hinterland.
Is the Chinese model one we should all strive for?
How do we know that China will ultimately benefit from having a well educated population? To be honest, I would guess that a very large number of Chinese children do NOT receive such a great education - especially in the rural hinterland.
The headmaster of the English school was interviewed on the radio. He said the Chinese teachers were disappointed with the behaviour of the English students, but were very impressed with their self confidence, ability to give presentations and their creativity. They felt that Chinese students will go on to be good employees, but the English students had more potential to be creative start-up types.
RicksAlfas said:
The headmaster of the English school was interviewed on the radio. He said the Chinese teachers were disappointed with the behaviour of the English students, but were very impressed with their self confidence, ability to give presentations and their creativity. They felt that Chinese students will go on to be good employees, but the English students had more potential to be creative start-up types.
That's the thing isn't it, you can bring order and discipline to everyone but you stifle peoples individuality (which for brats is good but for the smarter ones not so good) For people to really succeed some people have to really fail. The trick is finding the balance.MDMetal said:
That's the thing isn't it, you can bring order and discipline to everyone but you stifle peoples individuality..
Does it though?Having discipline in what ever your pursuit is surely a positive thing, as well as for individuality...(I'm guessing you are interchanging 'individuality' for 'creativity')?
MDMetal said:
For people to really succeed some people have to really fail. The trick is finding the balance.
True once they leave school and enter the jobs market as there are limited jobs and limited job types.But for school the purpose is development and exam pass marks, in which it is 'unlimited' to an extent.
Obviously you could argue that if everyone got an "A" for example....then they would review the paper as being too easy...but then again if the standard is set then everyone gaining an "A" should be seen as a total success of the education system.
RicksAlfas said:
The headmaster of the English school was interviewed on the radio. He said the Chinese teachers were disappointed with the behaviour of the English students, but were very impressed with their self confidence, ability to give presentations and their creativity. They felt that Chinese students will go on to be good employees, but the English students had more potential to be creative start-up types.
This is the important bit - My B-I-L is over from Hong Kong at the moment, so we were discussing this last night and he basically said that in HK, they have their pick of intelligent people when looking to employ for entry level positions, however; Most managers within his business sector are recruited from other countries, as the Chinese struggle to think outside the box and as a result struggle when they are put into more senior roles.AA999 said:
MDMetal said:
That's the thing isn't it, you can bring order and discipline to everyone but you stifle peoples individuality..
Does it though?Having discipline in what ever your pursuit is surely a positive thing, as well as for individuality...(I'm guessing you are interchanging 'individuality' for 'creativity')?
MDMetal said:
For people to really succeed some people have to really fail. The trick is finding the balance.
True once they leave school and enter the jobs market as there are limited jobs and limited job types.But for school the purpose is development and exam pass marks, in which it is 'unlimited' to an extent.
Obviously you could argue that if everyone got an "A" for example....then they would review the paper as being too easy...but then again if the standard is set then everyone gaining an "A" should be seen as a total success of the education system.
I saw the programme and it was interesting and surprising in many ways. I thought it'd be embarrassing to see the comparison but I actually felt quite good about our system afterwards.
Perhaps we could strive for a nation of well-disciplined robots but Britain has always been a nation of creative, challenging and adventurous people and I think that's reflected in the way we teach our kids. We shouldn't be taught to be afraid of challenging authority or speaking up when we think an injustice has been done.
It's worth pointing out that most of the kids in the 50-strong class didn't seem to be up to mischief. Just as in school, it only takes a couple of noisy ones to disrupt a class.
Utlimately, the British kids looked quite a bit happier and if they can achieve that and still be among the global academic elite then I think that's pretty damn good.
Perhaps we could strive for a nation of well-disciplined robots but Britain has always been a nation of creative, challenging and adventurous people and I think that's reflected in the way we teach our kids. We shouldn't be taught to be afraid of challenging authority or speaking up when we think an injustice has been done.
It's worth pointing out that most of the kids in the 50-strong class didn't seem to be up to mischief. Just as in school, it only takes a couple of noisy ones to disrupt a class.
Utlimately, the British kids looked quite a bit happier and if they can achieve that and still be among the global academic elite then I think that's pretty damn good.
Defies belief the mother thought it was OK to let her son take a kettle into school tells you that so many issues are caused by you PARENTS rather than children.
I don't agree that the chinese method of taling to the class is best BUT discipline and children think they can do whatever they want is a major problem.
I don't agree that the chinese method of taling to the class is best BUT discipline and children think they can do whatever they want is a major problem.
Would I be right to suspect they brought teachers from expensive privvate schools in major cities and let them loose in a provincial comprehensive?
My brother lectures at a middle ranking university in China and the dazzlingly high standard of their education is not something he regularly mentions.
My brother lectures at a middle ranking university in China and the dazzlingly high standard of their education is not something he regularly mentions.
The English school is Bohunt in Liphook, one if the best non selective state secondaries in the country.
Good program, the school has around 1600 pupils, so I wouldn't personally worry about one or two challengers who like to mess about.
Overall I thought the UK kids are coping pretty well.
Good program, the school has around 1600 pupils, so I wouldn't personally worry about one or two challengers who like to mess about.
Overall I thought the UK kids are coping pretty well.
Superhoop said:
as the Chinese struggle to think outside the box
We see this often. We had someone from that part of the world that worked for us. If a customer requested a quote for XXX down lights, a quote for XXX down lights is what they would get - nothing more, nothing less. There was one example when someone asked for a quote for a significant number of an uplight product. Said product was expensive and we were phasing it out as we had a replacement. Colleague gave a quote for what was asked for whereas my natural reaction would be to have spoken with the customer about the new product that was a third of the size, more powerful, better looking and half the price. Asked why the colleague didn't the answer said "that's what the customer asked for." No lateral thought at all. Very programmed to simply take and react to instruction.
E36GUY said:
Superhoop said:
as the Chinese struggle to think outside the box
We see this often...The underlying fact of the matter being that chinese students are 3 years ahead of british students IN SCHOOL.
Once they leave school each individual then lives their own life under their own rules (so to speak).
Sure there will be some that are useless at certain tasks, but China has shown the world that they can master certain areas of business. (Without leadership from the west).
The same in britain, some are totally useless but some are great. But I would hazard a guess that the general level of knowledge is higher per average person in China than it is here in britain given an age range between 10 and 35.
(Not saying 'ability' is higher per person, just knowledge gained from school years).
It went downhill in the UK after they got rid of Streaming - where the brighter kids 'A' were taught separately from the normal 'N' kids. So now if your child is unlucky enough to get into Steatham Flickknife Comprehensive he or she has to mix it with the underachievers and wannabe gangsters.
fido said:
It went downhill in the UK after they got rid of Streaming - where the brighter kids 'A' were taught separately from the normal 'N' kids. So now if your child is unlucky enough to get into Steatham Flickknife Comprehensive he or she has to mix it with the underachievers and wannabe gangsters.
They still have streamed education in Northern Ireland, although Sinn Fein want to get rid of it. The grammar school results are invariably the best in the UK.Having said that, the kids who attend secondary schools often leave with no passes at all (22% when I last saw the figures).Swings and roundabouts. At least they can get an income from organised crime
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