When did we get obsessed with prolonging life?

[Ste1987]

Obviously modern medicine is working wonders, curing people of illnesses that would have once taken their lives and so forth. But when did we decide that dying in your 30's or 40's was no longer acceptable and that something should be done to make people live longer? Was it as spur of the moment or did it just happen gradually? One disease was cured by accident, so medical boffins decided to expand further? (I have a feeling this has something to do with penicillin).

[roboxm3]

I assume improved hygiene and basic medicine took us into life expectancy in the 50s/60s and obviously medical research will have been going on since forever but at some point I get the impression that the 'goal' seems to have shifted from 'not dying unnecessarily' to living longer.

It feels like that has happened within my lifetime (I'm 34) but someone that's been around a bit longer might be better placed to comment on that.

The 'quest for long' life actually annoys me to be honest. What the fk can you do when you're 95 really? Alright you might be alive and be able to get out and about etc. but that's no "life" to me...a few of years to enjoy retirement (you'd get bored after a while, wouldn't you) and a couple of years in an old people's home trying to grope the female carers and that'll do for me

[Matt Harper]

You may notice that the closer you get to the end of your life, the more motivated you become to prolong it.

[Twin2]

Basic survival instincts. No species actually wants to die, and so if there are things we can do to prolong our life then we will.

There are, however, already too many people on the earth though and if people start living until 100 all the time, they're going to be a drain on society and the quality of life after a certain pint is awful.

For example my gran is 93 now and I can't remember the last time she stayed awake longer than 2/3 hours. Her hearing is going, she struggles to walk, can't get around herself, 95% of her friends are dead... It's not particularly appealing but people want to live as long as possible, seeing any form of living as better than dead.

Also, penicillin was the worst invention ever, it brings my whole body out in a rash!

[ZOLLAR]

roboxm3 said:

What the fk can you do when you're 95 really? Alright you might be alive and be able to get out and about etc. but that's no "life" to me...a few of years to enjoy retirement (you'd get bored after a while, wouldn't you) and a couple of years in an old people's home trying to grope the female carers and that'll do for me

I'm inclined to agree, I'd prefer to pop it younger but still be active (when I say active I mean able to look after myself, go shopping, go on holidays on my own or with friends etc) until I go.
I'd prefer science keep my body going in that respect rather than see how long they can draw out my existence whilst someone is wiping my arse and drool.

[StevieBee]

Someone posted a link to an article on a similar thread a while back that said there was growing consensus that the first person to live to 150 years old has already been born. This was discussed on 5Live recently with someone suggesting that we're not far off people having two or three different careers in their lifetime - which I quite like the idea of.

I think life longevity is a by product of improved sanitation, health awareness, nutrition and the like that themselves seek to address other life limiting issues such as poor health.

I do find myself often thinking that when someone pops their clogs in their 70s that "that's no age"!

I know a few in their 80s and some in their 90s that are active, fit, well and continue to play a big part in life and why not? I think there's a few fellas in their 80s that compete in Historic Racing. Good on 'em.

[austinsmirk]

if you go back to the middle ages, if you made it to yr 30's, you were an old man.

if you even survived childbirth (and yr mother did) it was a miracle. if you made it beyond the age of 5- even better.

then simple things like fractures would kill you.

however back then, the most likely thing to kill you, was the endless wars you would be fighting in, whether you liked it or not. You'd probably be owned by the lord of the manor and thus have little say in your life.

Even 100 years ago, childbirth was a significant killer of both babies and mothers.


roll forward to present times- medicine does mean people with say, cerebral palsy actual survive into quite old age. Normally they would probably pass in their early 20's.

[Corpulent Tosser]

Even in early Victorian times life expectancy varied between towns 25-30 and rural areas 40ish, but this is an average which is dragged down by the very high infant mortality.
Better healthcare has prevented these high mortality rates and so in a stroke increased average life expectancy.
Advances in medicine, antibiotics in particular, better nutrician, better hygiene have all helped increase life expectancy.

[Ste1987]

Corpulent Tosser said:

Even in early Victorian times life expectancy varied between towns 25-30 and rural areas 40ish, but this is an average which is dragged down by the very high infant mortality.
Better healthcare has prevented these high mortality rates and so in a stroke increased average life expectancy.
Advances in medicine, antibiotics in particular, better nutrician, better hygiene have all helped increase life expectancy.

But the question I'm asking is why these advances ever came about in the first place? Were these discoveries accidental or did someone decide one day that he was going to find a way of improving the health of the general population?

[Corpulent Tosser]

Ste1987 said:

But the question I'm asking is why these advances ever came about in the first place? Were these discoveries accidental or did someone decide one day that he was going to find a way of improving the health of the general population?

I don't think someone just decided "I must find ways to increase life expectancy"
What did happen though is some benevolent people decided to try to improve the living conditions of the poorer elements of society, better sanitation and clean water.

Meanwhile doctors were slowly improving techniques and scientists were creating new medicines.

Your question is a bit like asking why did man start using spears instead of throwing rocks, why did man develop bow and arrow instead of just throwing spears etc.

[P-Jay]

ZOLLAR said:

roboxm3 said:

What the fk can you do when you're 95 really? Alright you might be alive and be able to get out and about etc. but that's no "life" to me...a few of years to enjoy retirement (you'd get bored after a while, wouldn't you) and a couple of years in an old people's home trying to grope the female carers and that'll do for me

I'm inclined to agree, I'd prefer to pop it younger but still be active (when I say active I mean able to look after myself, go shopping, go on holidays on my own or with friends etc) until I go.
I'd prefer science keep my body going in that respect rather than see how long they can draw out my existence whilst someone is wiping my arse and drool.

No one wants to be all but a vegetable living in a home having your arse wiped - it just happens that way sometimes.

Some people say things like that to justify a poor lifestyle - smoking etc "I don't want live to 95 having my arse wiped" but it doesn't really work out like that, illness makes you a vegetable sure luck plays a part, but if you can keep your mind and body in the best nick possible you'll enjoy a longer and more active life - I've seen guys in their 70's who are fitter and more active than some of the walking bags of meat I went to school with a bumped into at a funeral a few months back and I'm only 36.

It's a unfortunate thing, that unless you get hit by a buss the like, you're going to spend your last phase of life pretty much at the mercy of people looking after you - it might be hours, it might be years - it's often down to luck, but not many people get to live, full active lives until suddenly keeling over one day.

We don't seek to prolong life to spend 10 years having our arses wiped, we do it so we can have the longest quality life possible - even if that means in some cases a longer period having a less active life.

I suspect euthanasia with less both legal and less of a taboo when I older, perhaps we might be able to decide when we've had enough, or when we can't do the things we want to do - it might bring the average life expectancy down, but quality of life would be better.

[ZOLLAR]

P-Jay said:

No one wants to be all but a vegetable living in a home having your arse wiped - it just happens that way sometimes.

But that's what I'm saying, I'd rather they find a way to overcome what ever put me in that state so I can remain active rather than them finding ways just to prolong existence.

However I'm guessing if they can overcome an illness/disease or bodily damage that makes you a vegetable then the natural outcome is that you will live longer anyway.

[Jasandjules]

As with cars, I prefer condition over age....... So if I was 50 but unable to take care of myself and enjoy life, well, I would like to go see what the next life brings me. If however at 80 I am still enjoying life, happy days.

[Ste1987]

P-Jay said:

I suspect euthanasia with less both legal and less of a taboo when I older, perhaps we might be able to decide when we've had enough, or when we can't do the things we want to do - it might bring the average life expectancy down, but quality of life would be better.

[RDMcG]

My attitude to this has not changed since I was about 15. I am now 67.
I have seen many people die and have seen the extended misery of people with chronic diseases or terminal cancer.

I have no obsession with prolonging life, only with having life quality. I work out for a couple of hours every morning, have no medication, and no particular issues beyond the normal bit of arthritis

In term of the future I am crystal clear. Like everyone I will die. For most people that is not some sunlit room with loving relatives surrounding you , a sweet sigh, a close of eyes and some vestigial spirit wafting away. It more being sedated to the hilt until you expire.

Not for me. I have strict DNR instructions with my lawyer and doctor. I also have instruction for a trip to Dignitas if I cannot communicate. This does not mean that I will make a decision when I have some minor deterioration, but I will not become a helpless dependent for any reason.

I have led a life that always assumed that something,somewhere could go wrong, so every day was to be valued. Every adventure was to be tried, and it continues to this day. Hopefully I will have more. I travel extensively, track cars,collect wine,consult and invest and so on.

Living a long life is different from living a full life. I never understood people putting off stuff till retirement. I never understood the whole bucket list thing - maybe I lack imagination.

When I am not longer able to meet my own requirements for independence, then that's the end of it, and it will have been one good run. No regrets.

Edited by RDMcG on Friday 8th January 18:03

[roboxm3]

RDMcG said:

My attitude to this has not changed since I was about 15. I am now 67.
I have seen many people die and have seen the extended misery of people with chronic diseases or terminal cancer.

I have no obsession with prolonging life, only with having life quality. I work out for a couple of hours every morning, have no medication, and no particular issues beyond the normal bit of arthritis

In term of the future I am crystal clear. Like everyone I will die. For most people that is not some sunlit room with loving relatives surrounding you , a sweet sigh, a close of eyes and some vestigial spirit wafting away. It more being sedated to the hilt until you expire.

Not for me. I have strict DNR instructions with my lawyer and doctor. I also have instruction for a trip to Dignities if I cannot communicate. This does not mean that I will make a decision when I have some minor deterioration, but I will not become a helpless dependent for any reason.

I have led a life that always assumed that something,somewhere could go wrong, so every day was to be valued. Every adventure was to be tried, and it continues to this day. Hopefully I will have more. I travel extensively, track cars,collect wine,consult and invest and so on.

Living a long life is different from living a full life. I never understood people putting off stuff till retirement. I never understood the whole bucket list thing - maybe I lack imagination.

When I am not longer able to meet my own requirements for independence, then that's the end of it, and it will have been one good run. No regrets.

This.

[TTmonkey]

The problem with living 5-10 years longer is that we'll still be old and wrinkly and probably incontinent when we live those extra years. Whats the point....?

[CypSIdders]

austinsmirk said:

if you go back to the middle ages, if you made it to yr 30's, you were an old man.

This is a misconception, average mortallity figures, for the period in question, are heavily skewed by the high infant mortallity rate. AIUI, if you were still alive in your early 20's you could expect to live out your three score years and ten, barring major illness or accidents!

[J4CKO]

CypSIdders said:

austinsmirk said:

if you go back to the middle ages, if you made it to yr 30's, you were an old man.

This is a misconception, average mortallity figures, for the period in question, are heavily skewed by the high infant mortallity rate. AIUI, if you were still alive in your early 20's you could expect to live out your three score years and ten, barring major illness or accidents!

Yes, there were plenty of older folk around but kids tended not to survive, people did make it to grand old ages, but daft stuff that we wouldnt fret about used to kill you back then, a lot of luck was involved.

A mate of mine is in hospital with a twisted stomach, no way he would have survived without modern medicine, lad I work with has Pancras problems, again, would have died about 18 months ago but modern medicine is keeping him alive and in fine fettle.

I had what looked like Gall bladder problems the other month, managed, it seems to pass them, but that would be life threatening back then, where its an out patient op to remove nowadays.

[Blown2CV]

always thought it weird that humans go on about prolonging life but not deferring ageing. Pointless being an even more miserable, useless, crumpled, immobile burden than you would already have been... but 50 years of being as fit and healthy as a 30-40 year old? Surely that's the thing we really want?