Mumsnet - Rape or abuse?

[Fastchas]

Just been lurking on Mumsnet and read this thread. As a male, I find this a bit scary. Read it and post your thoughts, let see what the difference is from a male perspective (I acknowledge a few posters telling her it's not rape).

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2724555-...

[Ari]

My thoughts would be entirely in line with what most replies are saying.

[Japveesix]

I think the man should have been a gentleman and said clearly "Penetration commencing imminently " before he put it in bit other than that it just sounds like a normal night for at least 50% of uni students. ..

[Foliage]

Buyers remorse

ETA - typical mumsnet bks, she wants to ruin his life because of a decision she made and now regrets.

[hornetrider]

Japveesix said:

I think the man should have been a gentleman and said clearly "Penetration commencing imminently "

Whilst twirling his bowtie.

[anonymous-user]

On the face of the case described, you'd expect the man to have had the required 'reasonable belief' that there was consent. If it were tried it would be down to the jury to decide, taking into account all of the circumstances.

There's at least one footballer out there who didn't get the benefit of the doubt, however the circumstances were quite different.

[daddy cool]

Seems bizarre that both the condom and the fact it was "from behind" are being described as factors about whether it was rape or not. I mean, best to use a johnny for many reasons, but NOT using one doesnt signify rape. And as for "from behind" meaning she was "surprised", how is that different from it being good old fashioned missionary but in a pitch-black room? In both case, surely she was aware of the bloke moving from his initial position (eating at the finest restaurant in the world) to preparing for "tactical insertion" [/SAS].

TL;DR - course it wasnt rape - Tart's Remorse.

edit: also love that one of the first replies is from Jizzomelette.

[Fastchas]

Ari said:

My thoughts would be entirely in line with what most replies are saying.

Which are?
Whilst some are saying it was a bad experience and she shouldn't have 'pretended' to enjoy it a few are saying he was a sly rapist and should have asked before 'PIV'! This was after foreplay which by it's name/nature is the preclude to sex (isn't it?).

[Rude-boy]

I have only read the OP on Mums net, not any of the comments or other posts (if any) that the OP might have added.

To be honest the first time that I slept with anyone nothing was taken for granted and each time things stepped up a notch i would always be absolutely sure that i was not the only one who wanted to progress.

Okay so I can't ever recall stopping, making sure that we were facing each other, and having a 10 minute discussion about if it was okay for us to do x or y but hand on heart i have never had intercourse without the lady knowing full well that the next thing that would be knocking on the door was not going to be my fingers or my tongue...

As for the lady's situation I would have to say that there is no way near enough information to even get close to a comfortable answer. It was a long time ago and her memory of exactly what was said and how things were done might not be absolutely clear, nor is the blokes likely to be. From the sounds of this it was a one off encounter and so there is also a good chance that whilst this lady has been thinking about it all for a while the bloke has likely paid little thought to it. That there should be any doubt though is a worry. Not all communication during love making is verbal but quite clearly whatever 'communication' there was was not as through as it should have been.

One of the things that bothers me the most is that there is no indication that she communicated to him that she was anything other than happy with what was going on. if, at point of entry (so to speak), she had pulled away and gone 'Oi' that would be a different story and anything after that that wasn't 100% clearly agreed would be assault.

On the face of it I would have to say that he thought that he had consent, she seems to suggest that her actions indicated that he had consent, even if it went from oral to actual a little swifter than she thought it would, and that she did not do or say anything to him that suggested that he had overstepped the consent that she had given.

Both need to learn - one that you should speak up if you are not comfortable, or else it may pray on your mind for many more years to come than an evening of dealing with a slightly deflated bloke. The other needs to learn that you need to be 100% sure that you have consent ( not just believe that you have) before you take things up a level.

[BJG1]

I think sticking your cock onto someone without putting a condom on and asking if that's ok is fking disgraceful tbh. Should be sexual assault at least.

[Sheepshanks]

Obvious troll is obvious. Some of the poster have realised but they're not allowed to mention it in threads, hence one of the posts has been deleted.

[Rude-boy]

BJG1 said:

I think sticking your cock onto someone without putting a condom on and asking if that's ok is fking disgraceful tbh. Should be sexual assault at least.

To be honest i must say that the lack of putting a condom on is a massive nono in my book (i would always use one for my own protection until the relationship was old enough to make a joint call on if they were used or not)

But i do think that you are taking i t a little far.

Remember you have to accept that not everyone is the same. When i was in the field I lost more sex than i ever had because i was very careful about being 100% sure that everyone was on the same page. There was even one occasion when i refused because she would not agree to me wearing a condom. As soon as she said that i went into immediate "It's a trap" mode and that was the last time I hooked up with them. Oddly less than 18 months later she was fat with child and had a very reluctant baby father in tow...

[Driver101]

That's neither rape or abuse.

There's no way you can be in that position and expect the guy to suddenly stop without any suggestion to do so.

I'm not buying that he went from performing oral sex from behind her to sticking his penis in to her surprise. I'm sure there would be a fair amount of shuffling to get into position and a little fumbling.

It that was classed as rape most guys would have committed the crime.

[CountZero23]

Foliage said:

Buyers remorse

ETA - typical mumsnet bks, she wants to ruin his life because of a decision she made and now regrets.

This. Regret is not rape.

If this was a man saying this it would sound ridiculous, "she went down on me, then before I knew what was happening it was reverse cowboy. I didn't complain or give any indication I wasn't enthusiastic about it all, was I raped?"

[techguyone]

I only read the first 20 or so replies, and to be honest, these were remarkably sensible in the main (I don't know how they arrange, in time order)

Every other time I've gone onto Mumsnet for a laugh, it's been like a nest of vipers, this time the only really stupid poster was in fact the OP

[Ste1987]

Is it just me who thinks that thread reads like a PH one?

[Fastchas]

techguyone said:

I only read the first 20 or so replies, and to be honest, these were remarkably sensible in the main (I don't know how they arrange, in time order)

Every other time I've gone onto Mumsnet for a laugh, it's been like a nest of vipers, this time the only really stupid poster was in fact the OP

You need to read the whole two pages. Rape is mentioned a few times.

[Fastchas]

CountZero23 said:

This. Regret is not rape.

If this was a man saying this it would sound ridiculous, "she went down on me, then before I knew what was happening it was reverse cowboy. I didn't complain or give any indication I wasn't enthusiastic about it all, was I raped?"

...errr, shirley you mean cowgirl...?

[MrBarry123]

It's not rape however if the story is true, I feel empathy for the female as it's clear she didn't have the confidence to tell the bloke to stop.

I'm not sure why the bloke deemed it acceptable to have unprotected sex with a stranger though?

It's altogether a bit weird and a thread I'd rather have not read.

[Foliage]

BJG1 said:

I think sticking your cock onto someone without putting a condom on and asking if that's ok is fking disgraceful tbh. Should be sexual assault at least.

Yep it should be but it isn't, it should also be illegal to say your on the pill and not be. Its the responsibility of both parties to look after your own well being, if she'd have spoken up then told him to stop when he didn't put one on, and then he continued that would have been rape. But the way it reads to me is that she was that pissed that she didn't care and just wanted it, and now regrets it.