Nazi Germany vs Imperial Japan - who'd win
Discussion
irocfan said:
as it says in the title - had Germany and Japan come to blows who would have prevailed? Japan would likely rule the waves Germany the land and air...
Why would they have come to blows? The deciding factor would be what China thought about it, the Japanese Russian wars were largely Naval affairs.Mongols vs Huns is a much better debate, although there was almost 1000 years of
technological increase between Atilla and Genghis Khan on the field of battle they would have been very closely matched.
FredClogs said:
irocfan said:
as it says in the title - had Germany and Japan come to blows who would have prevailed? Japan would likely rule the waves Germany the land and air...
Why would they have come to blows? The deciding factor would be what China thought about it, the Japanese Russian wars were largely Naval affairs.Mongols vs Huns is a much better debate, although there was almost 1000 years of
technological increase between Atilla and Genghis Khan on the field of battle they would have been very closely matched.
well ultimately they would have come to blows had they managed to defeat the allies - it's in the nature of the beast (ie the sorts of regimes they were).
And what leap of (frankly bizarre) logic would lead you to the conclusion that they would have come to blows?
Did they do History at your school?
And what leap of (frankly bizarre) logic would lead you to the conclusion that they would have come to blows?
Did they do History at your school?
irocfan said:
as it says in the title - had Germany and Japan come to blows who would have prevailed? Japan would likely rule the waves Germany the land and air...
If it had happened, it would have been in the eastern reaches of the Soviet Union. In that sort of terrain the Germans would have wiped the floor with them. FredClogs said:
Why would they have come to blows? The deciding factor would be what China thought about it, the Japanese Russian wars were largely Naval affairs.
Mongols vs Huns is a much better debate, although there was almost 1000 years of
technological increase between Atilla and Genghis Khan on the field of battle they would have been very closely matched.
China would have sided with the Germans , they have suffered at the hands of the Japanese .Mongols vs Huns is a much better debate, although there was almost 1000 years of
technological increase between Atilla and Genghis Khan on the field of battle they would have been very closely matched.
Depends entirely on when the allies are taken out of the equation. If this is pre-midway, the japanese navy is very strong, has four large carriers and japan would rule the skies/seas around the islands. The germans didnt have any real equipment for long sea battles, let alone an amphibious invasion.
V2-wise, assuming the germans could take South Korea (Busan specifically), they would have Hiroshima, Fukuoka and Nagasaki in range, but nothing would get further then that, without nuclear weapons the Japanese Empire wouldnt bow to that.
The germans would eventually be able to out-produce japan, but without nukes they would face a long and very bloody battle trying to subdue the Japanese Empire. The US did have estimates for what an invasion of mainland Japan would end up looking like with only conventional weapons, it did not look pretty
V2-wise, assuming the germans could take South Korea (Busan specifically), they would have Hiroshima, Fukuoka and Nagasaki in range, but nothing would get further then that, without nuclear weapons the Japanese Empire wouldnt bow to that.
The germans would eventually be able to out-produce japan, but without nukes they would face a long and very bloody battle trying to subdue the Japanese Empire. The US did have estimates for what an invasion of mainland Japan would end up looking like with only conventional weapons, it did not look pretty
FredClogs said:
Mongols vs Huns is a much better debate, although there was almost 1000 years of
technological increase between Atilla and Genghis Khan on the field of battle they would have been very closely matched.
In term of organisation and mobility the Mongols were centuries ahead of most of their contemporaries, it's only sheer chance that they didn't take western Europe. technological increase between Atilla and Genghis Khan on the field of battle they would have been very closely matched.
Issi said:
well ultimately they would have come to blows had they managed to defeat the allies - it's in the nature of the beast (ie the sorts of regimes they were).
And what leap of (frankly bizarre) logic would lead you to the conclusion that they would have come to blows?
Did they do History at your school?
did you do history at your's? Two totalitarian regimes (at least one of which was run by lunatics) with a belief in racial superiority, I'll let you try and figure that one out. It wouldn't have happened as soon as the Allies had been defeated but it would have happenedAnd what leap of (frankly bizarre) logic would lead you to the conclusion that they would have come to blows?
Did they do History at your school?
irocfan said:
as it says in the title - had Germany and Japan come to blows who would have prevailed? Japan would likely rule the waves Germany the land and air...
ze Chermans for my money. As others have said, they were close to solving the atomic bomb problem, and they had a decent delivery system in V2. They'd also developed jet fighters like the ME262, so the air supremacy problem would have been them too. As a land force, they had better tanks, guns and other mechanised war resources. As for the waves, I think U-Boats would have advanced sufficiently to help Germany out there. Remembering of course that the German Navy's ships were, for the most part, better than ours, and ours were pretty good.jdw100 said:
Do we have any German and Japanese members on PH?
We could arrange a meet in a pub car park and get them to fight it out.
This being PH we just get a Porsche 911 to fight it out against a Nissan GT-R and that will decide the winner?We could arrange a meet in a pub car park and get them to fight it out.
Or an E30 M3 vs a Mazda RX7
A VW Polo vs Honda Jazz?
I think we could assume it would predominantly have been a naval/air war.
To be honest, I imagine they may have fought each other to a draw, as neither really had sufficient resources to mount a long war at a distance.
So which ever took the war to the other's turf would have run out of planes/boats/etc. and had to withdraw.
However, if it had been a land war on a reasonable scale the Germans would have made mincemeat of the Japs (IMHO).
To be honest, I imagine they may have fought each other to a draw, as neither really had sufficient resources to mount a long war at a distance.
So which ever took the war to the other's turf would have run out of planes/boats/etc. and had to withdraw.
However, if it had been a land war on a reasonable scale the Germans would have made mincemeat of the Japs (IMHO).
EggsBenedict said:
ze Chermans for my money. As others have said, they were close to solving the atomic bomb problem, and they had a decent delivery system in V2. They'd also developed jet fighters like the ME262, so the air supremacy problem would have been them too. As a land force, they had better tanks, guns and other mechanised war resources. As for the waves, I think U-Boats would have advanced sufficiently to help Germany out there. Remembering of course that the German Navy's ships were, for the most part, better than ours, and ours were pretty good.
The V2 is utterly unsuited as a nuke delivery system, it only has a 200 mile range, and can carry only 1 ton, meanwhile little boy weighed in at 4.4 ton, fat man clocked in at 4.7.It took the US till 1952 until they had a sub 1t nuke.
The Me262 would have given the germans free range/air superiority over most of japan based from korea though.
Its hard to judge how far the germans were from a working nuke though, depending on how and when the allies are taken out of the equation, the germans would have suffered loss sabotage and brain-drain
Vitorio said:
The V2 is utterly unsuited as a nuke delivery system, it only has a 200 mile range, and can carry only 1 ton, meanwhile little boy weighed in at 4.4 ton, fat man clocked in at 4.7.
It took the US till 1952 until they had a sub 1t nuke.
Fair, but look at the difference between V1 and V2. They certainly had the engineering talent to develop this faster than the US - either shrinking the A-Bomb, or enhancing V2's capabilities.It took the US till 1952 until they had a sub 1t nuke.
As you say though, it kind of depends when this whole scenario takes place and how.
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