Been scammed on paypal. Advice required please.
Discussion
OK, situation as follows.
I have owned a (largish) retail business for around forty years and this has never happened before.
A man rings up and says he wants to buy an item, which he has seen on our website, but states he is in hospital and can not get down to the shop, so he will transfer £300 into our paypal account and send two "family" members in to pick the goods up in an hour or so.
We say, fine, check our (paypal) account and sure enough £300 is in the account from (We will call him Mr A).
I have his e-mail addresss obviously, as it is shown on the payment page on paypal.
Sure enough, two men come in about an hour later and say "Hello, we have come to pick up Mr A's parcel, I understand he has already paid for it."
We say "Fine...take the id of one of the men...he produced his photocard driving licence, we took all the details...we gave him the goods and they left the shop.
The whole transaction was captured on FOUR CCTV cameras in the shop, so as well as having their id, we have proof that they came into the shop and went away with the goods.
So far so good. Happy days.....
Then, three days later, the same man (Mr A), rings up and says he is still in hospital, but wants a different item for £280...again, he transferred the £280....the same two men (around 25 years old) came in......."We have come to pick up the goods for Mr A again"
Again they are on our CCTV, and AGAIN we have proof of who one of them was via his photocard id.
Again they leave the shop.....Happy days x 2.
Then, a few days later, we get an e-mail from paypal saying Mr A has disputed the second transaction with his bank, (not paypal)....reason....Unauthorised use of his card.
wtf!!
Paypal then reversed the second £280 payment, pending an investigation.......fair enough, no problems with that.
They say the issue is with "A's" bank, NOT them.
So much for paypal buyer protection.
I send a (long) e-mail to Paypal explaining we have on FOUR cameras these men walking out with the goods, so they can't claim they have never received them.
Paypal agree they think it is very odd, but after two weeks they have come back and said case closed and found in Mr A's favour.
(I'd rather not mention what the items were, (nothing dodgy )but that is irrelevent to the issue anyway)
I suspect Mr "A" and ONE of these men are one and the same, but I don't know for sure...
The problem is only with the second transaction, NOT the first.
I intend to e-mail Mr "A" politely to enquire as to why he has disputed the transaction, and say I will be getting the police involved as I have CCTV footage etc, but thought I would seek advice from the PH massive here first....
I have owned a (largish) retail business for around forty years and this has never happened before.
A man rings up and says he wants to buy an item, which he has seen on our website, but states he is in hospital and can not get down to the shop, so he will transfer £300 into our paypal account and send two "family" members in to pick the goods up in an hour or so.
We say, fine, check our (paypal) account and sure enough £300 is in the account from (We will call him Mr A).
I have his e-mail addresss obviously, as it is shown on the payment page on paypal.
Sure enough, two men come in about an hour later and say "Hello, we have come to pick up Mr A's parcel, I understand he has already paid for it."
We say "Fine...take the id of one of the men...he produced his photocard driving licence, we took all the details...we gave him the goods and they left the shop.
The whole transaction was captured on FOUR CCTV cameras in the shop, so as well as having their id, we have proof that they came into the shop and went away with the goods.
So far so good. Happy days.....
Then, three days later, the same man (Mr A), rings up and says he is still in hospital, but wants a different item for £280...again, he transferred the £280....the same two men (around 25 years old) came in......."We have come to pick up the goods for Mr A again"
Again they are on our CCTV, and AGAIN we have proof of who one of them was via his photocard id.
Again they leave the shop.....Happy days x 2.
Then, a few days later, we get an e-mail from paypal saying Mr A has disputed the second transaction with his bank, (not paypal)....reason....Unauthorised use of his card.
wtf!!
Paypal then reversed the second £280 payment, pending an investigation.......fair enough, no problems with that.
They say the issue is with "A's" bank, NOT them.
So much for paypal buyer protection.
I send a (long) e-mail to Paypal explaining we have on FOUR cameras these men walking out with the goods, so they can't claim they have never received them.
Paypal agree they think it is very odd, but after two weeks they have come back and said case closed and found in Mr A's favour.
(I'd rather not mention what the items were, (nothing dodgy )but that is irrelevent to the issue anyway)
I suspect Mr "A" and ONE of these men are one and the same, but I don't know for sure...
The problem is only with the second transaction, NOT the first.
I intend to e-mail Mr "A" politely to enquire as to why he has disputed the transaction, and say I will be getting the police involved as I have CCTV footage etc, but thought I would seek advice from the PH massive here first....
Oh dear. You've been bummed. And in quite an elaborate way it seems.
I'd never have made that scam, normally scammers go after the stupid and never part with cash!
Sorry to hear Paypal have been useless. Stick the email address on here. The amateur Eleuthera will have you an address to go knock on.
Thought of visiting the address of the scammer who gave you his license?
I'd never have made that scam, normally scammers go after the stupid and never part with cash!
Sorry to hear Paypal have been useless. Stick the email address on here. The amateur Eleuthera will have you an address to go knock on.
Thought of visiting the address of the scammer who gave you his license?
One can only surmise that they want to lead any investigation to believe that the first transaction was legit and the second was a scam carried out by someone else using the details left by the first person. If your CCTV is clear enough to identify the perpetrators as the same people on both occasions you'll hopefully be onto something. PayPal really are a dead loss though when it comes to sellers that have been screwed.
eltax91 said:
Oh dear. You've been bummed. And in quite an elaborate way it seems.
I'd never have made that scam, normally scammers go after the stupid and never part with cash!
Sorry to hear Paypal have been useless. Stick the email address on here. The amateur Eleuthera will have you an address to go knock on.
Thought of visiting the address of the scammer who gave you his license?
I have a few options open to me...frozen sausages etc, but I'm not losing any sleep over it, more I don't want him/them to get away with it.I'd never have made that scam, normally scammers go after the stupid and never part with cash!
Sorry to hear Paypal have been useless. Stick the email address on here. The amateur Eleuthera will have you an address to go knock on.
Thought of visiting the address of the scammer who gave you his license?
I can't really see as I have done anything wrong carried out id checks etc, but I certainly won't be falling for it again.
It's early days yet, there may be a perfectly innocent explaination, but I'm not holding my breath.
The address on the driving licence is about fifteen miles away.
Register1 said:
If they want to pay by paypal, then you must post the item, with the obvious postage details, correct posting service.
If they pay by paypal, you must never under any circumstances allow them to collect.
If they want to collect, then it has to be cash.
Yep, collections are cash or chip and pin only.If they pay by paypal, you must never under any circumstances allow them to collect.
If they want to collect, then it has to be cash.
The reason they want to collect is that they want the goods before anyone cottons onto anything.
Classic Paypal scam I'm afraid, and one I was victim to about 10 years ago.
He's issued a chargeback through the credit card he paid with, they have clawed the money back from Paypal already and so Paypal only really have any interest in taking the money back from you.
Anything paid for as "goods" through Paypal MUST be sent by recorded courier, otherwise you're open to this sort of abuse.
Make no mistake, it's fraud, pure and simple.
Paypal will do nothing to help you here, as you've seen. Quite how Paypal can get away with effectively facilitating this ongoing fraudulent activity is beyond me, but your recourse here is through the Police if anywhere.
He's issued a chargeback through the credit card he paid with, they have clawed the money back from Paypal already and so Paypal only really have any interest in taking the money back from you.
Anything paid for as "goods" through Paypal MUST be sent by recorded courier, otherwise you're open to this sort of abuse.
Make no mistake, it's fraud, pure and simple.
Paypal will do nothing to help you here, as you've seen. Quite how Paypal can get away with effectively facilitating this ongoing fraudulent activity is beyond me, but your recourse here is through the Police if anywhere.
Id put it down to experience , you've been conned , the police will not be interested, PayPal couldn't care less , and certainly don't waste your time with the small claims court.
Retail value of £280 , so maybe a cost value in the region of £150 ?
Dot the i's and cross the t's on updating your sales systems so it cannot happen again , it might be the best £150 you've ever spent.
Retail value of £280 , so maybe a cost value in the region of £150 ?
Dot the i's and cross the t's on updating your sales systems so it cannot happen again , it might be the best £150 you've ever spent.
Buster73 said:
Id put it down to experience , you've been conned , the police will not be interested, PayPal couldn't care less , and certainly don't waste your time with the small claims court.
Retail value of £280 , so maybe a cost value in the region of £150 ?
Dot the i's and cross the t's on updating your sales systems so it cannot happen again , it might be the best £150 you've ever spent.
Yup sadly it's probably easier overall just to move onRetail value of £280 , so maybe a cost value in the region of £150 ?
Dot the i's and cross the t's on updating your sales systems so it cannot happen again , it might be the best £150 you've ever spent.
Now I guess you could check up if the id was real, if so post the footage on YouTube, I'd be mortified if I did that crime then found myself doing it on the interweb
Buster73 said:
Id put it down to experience , you've been conned , the police will not be interested, PayPal couldn't care less , and certainly don't waste your time with the small claims court.
Retail value of £280 , so maybe a cost value in the region of £150 ?
Dot the i's and cross the t's on updating your sales systems so it cannot happen again , it might be the best £150 you've ever spent.
Yes, I'm not losing any sleep over it, worse things have happened at sea as they say.Retail value of £280 , so maybe a cost value in the region of £150 ?
Dot the i's and cross the t's on updating your sales systems so it cannot happen again , it might be the best £150 you've ever spent.
However, if it prevents just one Ph'er reading this thread making the same mistake, that would be of some comfort to me....
I'll reflect on what (if any) my next move will be.
Do you think Paypal will give me the name of his bank, or will it be covered by data protection?
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