999 really need to get their act sorted out :(
Discussion
before anyone goes off on one I'm not having a pop at the crew who turned up who were just wonderful 
story my MiL had a fall saturday morning luckily the postie heard her shouting for help and was able to get into her house as she luckily had her back door open (no sniggering there!). Ambulance was called at 10 took two further calls until the crew were able to show up @ 16.00, for a woman of 87 who was unable to pee (couldn't move) or drink (see pee comment). Gas & air didn't work so they had to put her on morphine - turns out she's broken her thigh
story my MiL had a fall saturday morning luckily the postie heard her shouting for help and was able to get into her house as she luckily had her back door open (no sniggering there!). Ambulance was called at 10 took two further calls until the crew were able to show up @ 16.00, for a woman of 87 who was unable to pee (couldn't move) or drink (see pee comment). Gas & air didn't work so they had to put her on morphine - turns out she's broken her thigh
Type R Tom said:
Madness, they shouldn't have to but perhaps a national campaign to remind people that 999 is life and death with 101 being non emergency.In my line of work I have regular contact with 101 and also general members of the public, it's staggering how few are aware of 101 (even after the substantial awareness campaign when it came out)
A refresher is needed!
ZOLLAR said:
Madness, they shouldn't have to but perhaps a national campaign to remind people that 999 is life and death with 101 being non emergency.
In my line of work I have regular contact with 101 and also general members of the public, it's staggering how few are aware of 101 (even after the substantial awareness campaign when it came out)
A refresher is needed!
I had the misfortune of needing to call 101 last Saturday after I spotted a couple of scrotes riding a motorbike on some public land where they definitely shouldn't have been! They were 2 up on an old Honda with no helmets and no number-plates, I'm sure you get the picture?In my line of work I have regular contact with 101 and also general members of the public, it's staggering how few are aware of 101 (even after the substantial awareness campaign when it came out)
A refresher is needed!
I dialed 101 hoping to speak to a human being to report what I figured was a "non urgent" crime.
What a total and utter farce!
I was kept on hold for what seemed like hours, listening to a ridiculous recording of someone telling me I could report non urgent crimes on line.
I was then treated to a voice telling me the call would cost me no more than 15 pence, regardless of how long I stayed on the line! (Oh the irony
) After 12 minutes I gave up listening to the condescending voice telling me how important my call was to them, so I hung up.
I didn't want to let the matter go un-recorded so I simply dialed 999, the operator was very efficient and even told me I did the right thing in using 999 as,in theory the "crime" was still taking place.
Job done.
So what exactly is the point of 101 if no bugger ever answers?
Discuss......
Sorry to hear this OP. My 81 year old dear old mum had a fall a couple of weeks ago, ambulance was there in less than ten minutes. She was admitted and looked after faultlessly. This was Dorset. I guess it's a lottery of where you are, but from 10am to 4pm is nothing short of disgraceful. I can't imagine the pain she must have been in for all of that time. Edited to add, I saw you commented on how great the crew was, my experience was the same here, they couldn't have been more caring or helpful, and I think it's the first time in my life I've had to call 999.
wilfandrowlf said:
I had the misfortune of needing to call 101 last Saturday after I spotted a couple of scrotes riding a motorbike on some public land where they definitely shouldn't have been! They were 2 up on an old Honda with no helmets and no number-plates, I'm sure you get the picture?
I dialed 101 hoping to speak to a human being to report what I figured was a "non urgent" crime.
What a total and utter farce!
I was kept on hold for what seemed like hours, listening to a ridiculous recording of someone telling me I could report non urgent crimes on line.
I was then treated to a voice telling me the call would cost me no more than 15 pence, regardless of how long I stayed on the line! (Oh the irony)
After 12 minutes I gave up listening to the condescending voice telling me how important my call was to them, so I hung up.
I didn't want to let the matter go un-recorded so I simply dialed 999, the operator was very efficient and even told me I did the right thing in using 999 as,in theory the "crime" was still taking place.
Job done.
So what exactly is the point of 101 if no bugger ever answers?
Discuss......
Wow.I dialed 101 hoping to speak to a human being to report what I figured was a "non urgent" crime.
What a total and utter farce!
I was kept on hold for what seemed like hours, listening to a ridiculous recording of someone telling me I could report non urgent crimes on line.
I was then treated to a voice telling me the call would cost me no more than 15 pence, regardless of how long I stayed on the line! (Oh the irony
) After 12 minutes I gave up listening to the condescending voice telling me how important my call was to them, so I hung up.
I didn't want to let the matter go un-recorded so I simply dialed 999, the operator was very efficient and even told me I did the right thing in using 999 as,in theory the "crime" was still taking place.
Job done.
So what exactly is the point of 101 if no bugger ever answers?
Discuss......
catfood12 said:
Sorry to hear this OP. My 81 year old dear old mum had a fall a couple of weeks ago, ambulance was there in less than ten minutes. She was admitted and looked after faultlessly. This was Dorset. I guess it's a lottery of where you are, but from 10am to 4pm is nothing short of disgraceful. I can't imagine the pain she must have been in for all of that time. Edited to add, I saw you commented on how great the crew was, my experience was the same here, they couldn't have been more caring or helpful, and I think it's the first time in my life I've had to call 999.
It's not just where you are, it's what else is going on and where the ambulance is. wilfandrowlf said:
ZOLLAR said:
Madness, they shouldn't have to but perhaps a national campaign to remind people that 999 is life and death with 101 being non emergency.
In my line of work I have regular contact with 101 and also general members of the public, it's staggering how few are aware of 101 (even after the substantial awareness campaign when it came out)
A refresher is needed!
I had the misfortune of needing to call 101 last Saturday after I spotted a couple of scrotes riding a motorbike on some public land where they definitely shouldn't have been! They were 2 up on an old Honda with no helmets and no number-plates, I'm sure you get the picture?In my line of work I have regular contact with 101 and also general members of the public, it's staggering how few are aware of 101 (even after the substantial awareness campaign when it came out)
A refresher is needed!
I dialed 101 hoping to speak to a human being to report what I figured was a "non urgent" crime.
What a total and utter farce!
I was kept on hold for what seemed like hours, listening to a ridiculous recording of someone telling me I could report non urgent crimes on line.
I was then treated to a voice telling me the call would cost me no more than 15 pence, regardless of how long I stayed on the line! (Oh the irony
) After 12 minutes I gave up listening to the condescending voice telling me how important my call was to them, so I hung up.
I didn't want to let the matter go un-recorded so I simply dialed 999, the operator was very efficient and even told me I did the right thing in using 999 as,in theory the "crime" was still taking place.
Job done.
So what exactly is the point of 101 if no bugger ever answers?
Discuss......
8 minutes I think I was waiting then gave up. To top it off, when I got my phone bill through, it had cost me nearly £4 This was also at around 0500 on a Saturday morning so not what you might think would be a busy time.Response times are worsening due to a number of factors. Crews have to deal with mental health issues these days, as per the police, and they travel further because of closed hospital units. Another factor affecting response times is patients having to remain in an ambulance at A&E because the unit cannot accept them until other patients have been dealt with. Also, pertinent to this case, around half (51%) of all emergency “blue light” calls are outside performance monitoring statistics (response time and key quality measures) - apparently these include patients with suspected stroke, diabetes and fractures.
The above information is taken from Emergency Ambulance Services in England (NHS Support Federation) 2015 which describes many factors impacting on the ambulance service as 'hidden from the public'.
The above information is taken from Emergency Ambulance Services in England (NHS Support Federation) 2015 which describes many factors impacting on the ambulance service as 'hidden from the public'.
Almost exactly the same scenario occurred to my MiL in 2000. A neighbour called the doctor and when a locum arrived he diagnosed a fractured neck-of-femur (hip fracture). He told the ambulance service that it was a non-urgent call! This was an 88 year old with early Alzheimer's! After I arrived and there was still no ambulance after three hours, I rang 999 again and made it abundantly clear that this was NOT a non-urgent call and the ambulance was there within thirty minutes. Plus ça change...
I also found 101 to be a total waste of time. Called once to report some local youths setting fire to a sofa beside some trees in on a dry autumn day. Parts of the nearby trees were starting to catch and this was within about 20 metres of a residential area The useless girl I reported it to just asked 'what would you like us to do about it'. Err I dunno love, maybe log it for information purposes only.
As for 111, the non-emergency NHS number, a very good ambulance man told me never to use it. If it's an emergency, it's 999, if not then see your GP or local walk in clinic. These 111 call operators could literally have been working in a call centre yesterday, and unless you're particularly stupid, you've got more chance of finding a solution yourself. Incidentally, we received a good service from 999, which is when we spoke to the helpful ambulance man. It's luck of the draw though, and they obviously have a priority system. Can't help but think older people get sidelined, and babies prioritised, which makes sense I suppose.
As for 111, the non-emergency NHS number, a very good ambulance man told me never to use it. If it's an emergency, it's 999, if not then see your GP or local walk in clinic. These 111 call operators could literally have been working in a call centre yesterday, and unless you're particularly stupid, you've got more chance of finding a solution yourself. Incidentally, we received a good service from 999, which is when we spoke to the helpful ambulance man. It's luck of the draw though, and they obviously have a priority system. Can't help but think older people get sidelined, and babies prioritised, which makes sense I suppose.
Edited by Toyoda on Tuesday 20th December 08:57
I've spent a bit of time in A&E recently and it's staggering the amount of people who use the ambulance service as a collect and drop of service. I borked my back pretty badly in a trampolining accident but still got my brother to drop me off and wheel me in. Whilst I did get a bolloking from the consultant for not using one and I can see his point with a back injury I think I'd have to be out cold to ask for an ambulance.
I watched a couple of episodes of "Ambulance" on iPlayer, a fly-on-the-wall thing about London Ambulance Service. I was very surprised that the 999 control room were sitting there with the map flashing red all over the place and no spare ambulances/responders to send. People all over the city in need of medical assistance, and none available. I had literally no idea that ever happened. Ever. How can that possibly be allowed? It's an emergency service. I assumed, like every other safety-critical system I have ever worked on, that it has capacity to spare and redundancy built in all over the place. No, it's operating at waaaaay over capacity, day in, day out. We assume it'll be there when we need it, but the odds are not good.
The control room had these proposterous crisis-management procedures for when the number of calls waiting reached unmanageable numbers where they do a big show of getting a different ring-binder off the shelf, hanging up a different status sign, and changing the procedures for call handling, and they start sending ambulances to life-threatening calls only. Fine, good idea. Except it wasn't a rare occurance. They gave the stats at the end for how many times they'd been in crisis mode recently, which I forget, but it was eye-opening.
Sounds like OP was a victim of this nonsesne.
Underfunded? Probably. Massively wasteful of the resources they have? Almost certainly. The fault of the paramedics and control staff? Definitely not. A totally failed system which is in operation every day as if it's normal? Seems that way to me.
The control room had these proposterous crisis-management procedures for when the number of calls waiting reached unmanageable numbers where they do a big show of getting a different ring-binder off the shelf, hanging up a different status sign, and changing the procedures for call handling, and they start sending ambulances to life-threatening calls only. Fine, good idea. Except it wasn't a rare occurance. They gave the stats at the end for how many times they'd been in crisis mode recently, which I forget, but it was eye-opening.
Sounds like OP was a victim of this nonsesne.
Underfunded? Probably. Massively wasteful of the resources they have? Almost certainly. The fault of the paramedics and control staff? Definitely not. A totally failed system which is in operation every day as if it's normal? Seems that way to me.
If you knew what Paramedics have to deal with on an average shift you'd be surprised but not shocked at why it took so long to come out.
Just a few to give you an idea:
People not moving out the way of an Ambulance on blue lights - it all adds up and wastes time.
Nurses refusing to take custody of patients when delivering to hospital (if thats the right term, I don't know)
Paramedics delivering a patient to 1 hospital, being told he needs to go elsewhere so then they need to drive him to a different hospital
If there's a death they have to wait for Police if not there already then give statements
I get to hear of insights from my FIL who is a Paramedic and the impression I get from his side of the story is that they're being let down on multiple sides which causes delays and lack of response to other calls.
Just a few to give you an idea:
People not moving out the way of an Ambulance on blue lights - it all adds up and wastes time.
Nurses refusing to take custody of patients when delivering to hospital (if thats the right term, I don't know)
Paramedics delivering a patient to 1 hospital, being told he needs to go elsewhere so then they need to drive him to a different hospital
If there's a death they have to wait for Police if not there already then give statements
I get to hear of insights from my FIL who is a Paramedic and the impression I get from his side of the story is that they're being let down on multiple sides which causes delays and lack of response to other calls.
Edited by ashleyman on Tuesday 20th December 09:27
As mentioned above it's all about priorities. There probably was an ambulance tasked sooner but each time a high priority tasking comes in they are rediverted.
My grandmother was very serious in a Dorset hospital and needed transferring to a specialist unit she had to wait over 12 hours for a transfer and that was with surgeons from the operating unit constantly pestering for her to be delivered.
I believe for the whole of Aberdeen they have 3 999 ambulances which give you an idea of the problem.
My grandmother was very serious in a Dorset hospital and needed transferring to a specialist unit she had to wait over 12 hours for a transfer and that was with surgeons from the operating unit constantly pestering for her to be delivered.
I believe for the whole of Aberdeen they have 3 999 ambulances which give you an idea of the problem.
About six years ago, the fiancée and I got home to see a load of teenagers fighting in the street outside our house. Called the police on 999 and got through to a rather condescending woman who started asking me things like, how many are there? Are they actually fighting now? Do you recognise any of them? Can you ask them to stop? Rather than just sending some officers over, she kept asking me stupid questions. In the end, I told her I was finishing the call as it was getting nowhere.
I complained the next day and was told that the person I spoke to was in the wrong. They would be giving her further training.
Also had to call 999 in April 2014 when my pregnant, type 1 diabetic fiancée woke up screaming at 3am. Her blood sugar had dropped to dangerous levels and it had completely screwed her up. Paramedic (who we couldn't fault) turned up nearly an hour later. I had to find some sugar and rub it in my fiancée's gums while I waited for the paramedic. She couldn't eat or drink anything on her own. That was probably one of the longest hours in my life.
When the paramedic got to our house, he popped my fiancée on a glucose drip thing and we had a chat about how long it took him to get to us. Apparently, he hadn't been given the call until nearly 40 minutes after I spoke to the handler. To be fair, he had made the trip from a town 17 miles away in very quick time. He just didn't get the call until about 15 minutes before we actually saw him.
I complained the next day and was told that the person I spoke to was in the wrong. They would be giving her further training.
Also had to call 999 in April 2014 when my pregnant, type 1 diabetic fiancée woke up screaming at 3am. Her blood sugar had dropped to dangerous levels and it had completely screwed her up. Paramedic (who we couldn't fault) turned up nearly an hour later. I had to find some sugar and rub it in my fiancée's gums while I waited for the paramedic. She couldn't eat or drink anything on her own. That was probably one of the longest hours in my life.
When the paramedic got to our house, he popped my fiancée on a glucose drip thing and we had a chat about how long it took him to get to us. Apparently, he hadn't been given the call until nearly 40 minutes after I spoke to the handler. To be fair, he had made the trip from a town 17 miles away in very quick time. He just didn't get the call until about 15 minutes before we actually saw him.
I had the same situation as the OP a few years ago with my Mum.
We were away and got no answer on the phone so cut things short and got to her house. She was lying on the floor in a pool of her own piss. She was cold and confused. She had no idea how long she'd been there. We estimate 15 hours.
Dialled 999 and the call handler took me through a scripted Q and A. I am not a medic but the things they were asking me to do were just mad. Asked me to get her off the floor. Asked me if she could walk. She'd broken her hip FFS!
Then the call taker told me there would be no ambulance.
It was one of those occasions where you have to go ballistic but remain non-abusive.
I asked if the call was recorded and asked the call taker to repeat the instruction to move her which he did.
I asked the call taker if it was OK t move someone with a suspected broken hip. He kept repeating that there would be no ambulance and then got argumentative with me. "Don't tell me how to do my job Sir". He kept repeating. I said something like "In the event that my Mother dies as a result of this can I just point out to the coroner when they hear this tape that this man is giving me the wrong advice and is withholding urgent medical care. ".
I got not someone more senior. They just said no ambulance. At that point my mum cried out in pain and I put the phone down to go to her.
They called back. An ambulance would come but not on a blue light.
We got my mum to the ED where the medics were shocked to hear what had happened.
The next day I lodged a complaint and asked for audio from the calls plus paper transcripts.
There was an investigation. It turned out the Ambulance control use a system called Pathways to help determine the urgency of the incident. It's a series of Q and A. Are they conscious? Are they bleeding? Stuff like that. If the answer is yes, it asks one thing next. No and it's another route.
It turned out the call taker clicked no instead of yes to one of the earliest questions and it took them, and us down the wrong route despite my questioning the call taker repeatedly if they were giving me the correct advice.
I'm going to come across as a PH well built director, but after a chat with the Trust's senior bod I agreed to take the case no further if I got an apology, a promise of retraining. The call taker I think got the b
king of their life and it was pointed out to them that they could easily have been in a world of trouble. I'm not into where's there's blame there's a claim type stuff. Besides, when you are having to deal with a sick elderly loved one you don't have the time or energy to engage in revenge litigation.
My mum never really recovered from the broken hip. She was dehydrated and in the early stages of hypothermia. It hadn't done her heart condition much good.
She was dead by the end of the year.
We were away and got no answer on the phone so cut things short and got to her house. She was lying on the floor in a pool of her own piss. She was cold and confused. She had no idea how long she'd been there. We estimate 15 hours.
Dialled 999 and the call handler took me through a scripted Q and A. I am not a medic but the things they were asking me to do were just mad. Asked me to get her off the floor. Asked me if she could walk. She'd broken her hip FFS!
Then the call taker told me there would be no ambulance.
It was one of those occasions where you have to go ballistic but remain non-abusive.
I asked if the call was recorded and asked the call taker to repeat the instruction to move her which he did.
I asked the call taker if it was OK t move someone with a suspected broken hip. He kept repeating that there would be no ambulance and then got argumentative with me. "Don't tell me how to do my job Sir". He kept repeating. I said something like "In the event that my Mother dies as a result of this can I just point out to the coroner when they hear this tape that this man is giving me the wrong advice and is withholding urgent medical care. ".
I got not someone more senior. They just said no ambulance. At that point my mum cried out in pain and I put the phone down to go to her.
They called back. An ambulance would come but not on a blue light.
We got my mum to the ED where the medics were shocked to hear what had happened.
The next day I lodged a complaint and asked for audio from the calls plus paper transcripts.
There was an investigation. It turned out the Ambulance control use a system called Pathways to help determine the urgency of the incident. It's a series of Q and A. Are they conscious? Are they bleeding? Stuff like that. If the answer is yes, it asks one thing next. No and it's another route.
It turned out the call taker clicked no instead of yes to one of the earliest questions and it took them, and us down the wrong route despite my questioning the call taker repeatedly if they were giving me the correct advice.
I'm going to come across as a PH well built director, but after a chat with the Trust's senior bod I agreed to take the case no further if I got an apology, a promise of retraining. The call taker I think got the b
king of their life and it was pointed out to them that they could easily have been in a world of trouble. I'm not into where's there's blame there's a claim type stuff. Besides, when you are having to deal with a sick elderly loved one you don't have the time or energy to engage in revenge litigation.My mum never really recovered from the broken hip. She was dehydrated and in the early stages of hypothermia. It hadn't done her heart condition much good.
She was dead by the end of the year.
Edited by wildcat45 on Tuesday 20th December 10:11
wilfandrowlf said:
I had the misfortune of needing to call 101 last Saturday after I spotted a couple of scrotes riding a motorbike on some public land where they definitely shouldn't have been! They were 2 up on an old Honda with no helmets and no number-plates, I'm sure you get the picture?
I dialed 101 hoping to speak to a human being to report what I figured was a "non urgent" crime.
What a total and utter farce!
I was kept on hold for what seemed like hours, listening to a ridiculous recording of someone telling me I could report non urgent crimes on line.
I was then treated to a voice telling me the call would cost me no more than 15 pence, regardless of how long I stayed on the line! (Oh the irony)
After 12 minutes I gave up listening to the condescending voice telling me how important my call was to them, so I hung up.
I didn't want to let the matter go un-recorded so I simply dialed 999, the operator was very efficient and even told me I did the right thing in using 999 as,in theory the "crime" was still taking place.
Job done.
So what exactly is the point of 101 if no bugger ever answers?
Discuss......
The problem is that there will be 1000's of people phoning to report completely pointless things that no-one would have even batted an eye at years ago.I dialed 101 hoping to speak to a human being to report what I figured was a "non urgent" crime.
What a total and utter farce!
I was kept on hold for what seemed like hours, listening to a ridiculous recording of someone telling me I could report non urgent crimes on line.
I was then treated to a voice telling me the call would cost me no more than 15 pence, regardless of how long I stayed on the line! (Oh the irony
) After 12 minutes I gave up listening to the condescending voice telling me how important my call was to them, so I hung up.
I didn't want to let the matter go un-recorded so I simply dialed 999, the operator was very efficient and even told me I did the right thing in using 999 as,in theory the "crime" was still taking place.
Job done.
So what exactly is the point of 101 if no bugger ever answers?
Discuss......
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