Why so many homeless recently, and what to do?
Discussion
I live out in the sticks in sleepy Devon, and other than the odd tramp, 'visible' homeless people didn't exist down here. I'm sure there were people who were homeless, but maybe they were in shelters at night or something. The only place you seemed to see them was big cities, and it was a bit of a shock the first time you saw them to be honest.
But over the last year or two, suddenly they're commonplace. Walk up through town early evening and you'll pass a dozen or more over a fairly short stretch, mostly in shop doorways.
So what's changed? Has support for homeless people been cut? Is it a benefits (or lack of) thing?
And as a society, and as an individual, what do we do about it? Should there be more help available?
They're invariably begging, is it a positive contribution to give them a little cash?
I guess buying them some food would be good, but there's so many now you'd end up having to choose who you helped and who you didn't.
Just wondered what people's thoughts were. I know there has always been homeless people for all sorts of reasons, but it just seems to be a really burgeoning issue of late.
But over the last year or two, suddenly they're commonplace. Walk up through town early evening and you'll pass a dozen or more over a fairly short stretch, mostly in shop doorways.
So what's changed? Has support for homeless people been cut? Is it a benefits (or lack of) thing?
And as a society, and as an individual, what do we do about it? Should there be more help available?
They're invariably begging, is it a positive contribution to give them a little cash?
I guess buying them some food would be good, but there's so many now you'd end up having to choose who you helped and who you didn't.
Just wondered what people's thoughts were. I know there has always been homeless people for all sorts of reasons, but it just seems to be a really burgeoning issue of late.
A lot of leftwing local councils are closing or downsizing homeless shelters to bash the national rightwing government (the "cuts").
Also, don't overestimate how "rich" Britain is. Some 9 in 10 of the poorest regions across all of Northern Europe are in the UK. The majority of the UK has about the same level of wealth as Greece or Spain. The pot of UK money is not as big as you think.
Also, don't overestimate how "rich" Britain is. Some 9 in 10 of the poorest regions across all of Northern Europe are in the UK. The majority of the UK has about the same level of wealth as Greece or Spain. The pot of UK money is not as big as you think.
Ari said:
I live out in the sticks in sleepy Devon, and other than the odd tramp, 'visible' homeless people didn't exist down here. I'm sure there were people who were homeless, but maybe they were in shelters at night or something. The only place you seemed to see them was big cities, and it was a bit of a shock the first time you saw them to be honest.
But over the last year or two, suddenly they're commonplace. Walk up through town early evening and you'll pass a dozen or more over a fairly short stretch, mostly in shop doorways.
So what's changed? Has support for homeless people been cut? Is it a benefits (or lack of) thing?
And as a society, and as an individual, what do we do about it? Should there be more help available?
They're invariably begging, is it a positive contribution to give them a little cash?
I guess buying them some food would be good, but there's so many now you'd end up having to choose who you helped and who you didn't.
Just wondered what people's thoughts were. I know there has always been homeless people for all sorts of reasons, but it just seems to be a really burgeoning issue of late.
I am also in the ass end of nowhere in Devon, cant say I've seen a single homeless person around here, even in the local towns.But over the last year or two, suddenly they're commonplace. Walk up through town early evening and you'll pass a dozen or more over a fairly short stretch, mostly in shop doorways.
So what's changed? Has support for homeless people been cut? Is it a benefits (or lack of) thing?
And as a society, and as an individual, what do we do about it? Should there be more help available?
They're invariably begging, is it a positive contribution to give them a little cash?
I guess buying them some food would be good, but there's so many now you'd end up having to choose who you helped and who you didn't.
Just wondered what people's thoughts were. I know there has always been homeless people for all sorts of reasons, but it just seems to be a really burgeoning issue of late.
London/Reading seemed to have some, but yet to see one down here.
Yipper said:
A lot of leftwing local councils are closing or downsizing homeless shelters to bash the national rightwing government (the "cuts").
Also, don't overestimate how "rich" Britain is. Some 9 in 10 of the poorest regions across all of Northern Europe are in the UK. The majority of the UK is about the same level of wealth as Greece or Spain. The pot of UK money is not as big as you think.
Also, don't overestimate how "rich" Britain is. Some 9 in 10 of the poorest regions across all of Northern Europe are in the UK. The majority of the UK is about the same level of wealth as Greece or Spain. The pot of UK money is not as big as you think.
SystemParanoia said:
Help is there... they just don't want it.
Like an alcoholic/druggy, you can only help them when they are ready to be helped
I think in many cases there's probably some truth in that, but it begs the question, where were they all two years ago? Like an alcoholic/druggy, you can only help them when they are ready to be helped
It's not like the odd one or two has appeared, there are a lot now.
Here's a view to cause debate.
I'd argue that homelessness doesn't really exist- or certainly not in the way you all perceive. Now I say this because for many years I delivered an entire cities homeless and housing services. A massive northern depressed city, not some easy place !
Many single "street" homeless seem to like the in/out of hostel/B&B/mates sofa type set up. sadly its because their lives about purely about dealing with addiction: that's their focus. come summertime its less of an issue- when winter is here, vast amounts of bed spaces are made available. In fact you actual struggle to count homeless on the streets in winter when you do counts.
without dealing with the addiction, the single drug user/alcoholic is never going to handle a tenancy, bills,life... giving them a home doesn't work. managed homes/hostel spaces and programmes to deal with addiction are the way forward. I'd also de-criminalise drugs OR give addicts drugs for free in a controlled environment, to stop prostitution or crime. where this has been tried, its worked. It's just no government has the balls to do it.
It's also nonsense to believe there are simply no homes available. I've done work for the government- step out of la la london land and there is a plentiful supply of social housing everywhere. of course naturally people won't just take what they are offered: so they pretend to be homeless, to play the system, to gain "points" to jump the queues.
Typically its families doing this: this all skews the figures and data. eg I demand to have a house, with drive, garden (I'll never tend) in a lovely rural village. Not the perfectly acceptable house/flat on an estate you're offering.
I offered a family on Friday one of 12, 3 bed new build wheelchair bungalows that exist out of 44,000 homes in the city. rarer than rare, it was even in the same postcode and where they want to live. They need such a home for their 2 disabled children. yet they declined it, because they think its a bit "dark". they simply cannot be housed easily and the conclusion, they'll probably now wait for something that doesn't exist: forever.
of course there will always be someone who fails to get a bed space: but probably because they've smashed the last place up, hit staff and so on.
fundamentally if we sorted out the supply/control of drugs/booze, gave users the stuff for free we would halt crime and all its impacts. people could try to wean themselves off, without being focused on criminal activity to maintain their "fix". providing permanent housing is a piece of cake afterwards- there's no shortage.
but trust me, handing a tenancy to someone who isn't in control will just make them fail it: at great cost. I think you have to believe most people are good, but some are more vulnerable than others and just need a hand in life.
I'd also remove the local connection elements from the Homelessness Act- it's ridiculous to expect London authorities to house people in an area, just because they present there.
If you really have nothing: you could genuinely move 30/40 miles away to start a new life in a city- if that was the option of living in a B&B with your children, v giving them a decent home and a start in life. Plenty of refugees have done it: anyone could if the threats to your family were so great.
I'd argue that homelessness doesn't really exist- or certainly not in the way you all perceive. Now I say this because for many years I delivered an entire cities homeless and housing services. A massive northern depressed city, not some easy place !
Many single "street" homeless seem to like the in/out of hostel/B&B/mates sofa type set up. sadly its because their lives about purely about dealing with addiction: that's their focus. come summertime its less of an issue- when winter is here, vast amounts of bed spaces are made available. In fact you actual struggle to count homeless on the streets in winter when you do counts.
without dealing with the addiction, the single drug user/alcoholic is never going to handle a tenancy, bills,life... giving them a home doesn't work. managed homes/hostel spaces and programmes to deal with addiction are the way forward. I'd also de-criminalise drugs OR give addicts drugs for free in a controlled environment, to stop prostitution or crime. where this has been tried, its worked. It's just no government has the balls to do it.
It's also nonsense to believe there are simply no homes available. I've done work for the government- step out of la la london land and there is a plentiful supply of social housing everywhere. of course naturally people won't just take what they are offered: so they pretend to be homeless, to play the system, to gain "points" to jump the queues.
Typically its families doing this: this all skews the figures and data. eg I demand to have a house, with drive, garden (I'll never tend) in a lovely rural village. Not the perfectly acceptable house/flat on an estate you're offering.
I offered a family on Friday one of 12, 3 bed new build wheelchair bungalows that exist out of 44,000 homes in the city. rarer than rare, it was even in the same postcode and where they want to live. They need such a home for their 2 disabled children. yet they declined it, because they think its a bit "dark". they simply cannot be housed easily and the conclusion, they'll probably now wait for something that doesn't exist: forever.
of course there will always be someone who fails to get a bed space: but probably because they've smashed the last place up, hit staff and so on.
fundamentally if we sorted out the supply/control of drugs/booze, gave users the stuff for free we would halt crime and all its impacts. people could try to wean themselves off, without being focused on criminal activity to maintain their "fix". providing permanent housing is a piece of cake afterwards- there's no shortage.
but trust me, handing a tenancy to someone who isn't in control will just make them fail it: at great cost. I think you have to believe most people are good, but some are more vulnerable than others and just need a hand in life.
I'd also remove the local connection elements from the Homelessness Act- it's ridiculous to expect London authorities to house people in an area, just because they present there.
If you really have nothing: you could genuinely move 30/40 miles away to start a new life in a city- if that was the option of living in a B&B with your children, v giving them a decent home and a start in life. Plenty of refugees have done it: anyone could if the threats to your family were so great.
austinsmirk said:
If you really have nothing: you could genuinely move 30/40 miles away to start a new life in a city- if that was the option of living in a B&B with your children, v giving them a decent home and a start in life. Plenty of refugees have done it: anyone could if the threats to your family were so great.
I understand your view on this, but it's not necessarily a great method.About 35 years ago they decided to rehouse a load of people from a large Northern city into the small Devon seaside town where I lived. On paper it seemed a no-brainer - the city had a shortage of housing, my town had spare social housing, people were keen to move out of the rougher areas in the city to a "resort". All good.
So the authorities sent a bunch of homeless drug addicts and problem families from estates and put them into a sleepy town that was ill prepared or equipped for the problems that came with them. Soon the streets they moved into became a no-go area and drug supplies to the area rocketed as they used their contacts up north to bring more into the locality. It was a disaster for the local community that took years to sort out.
We live in sleepy Shropshire so not may to be seen around here. The shelter in our nearest town recently closed and I have noticed an increase there
Just returned from a week in Glasgow and plenty to be seen these.
We decided to give £2 each day. If I were doing this nearer to home I would probably give warm clothing rather than money.
Just returned from a week in Glasgow and plenty to be seen these.
We decided to give £2 each day. If I were doing this nearer to home I would probably give warm clothing rather than money.
boyse7en said:
I understand your view on this, but it's not necessarily a great method.
About 35 years ago they decided to rehouse a load of people from a large Northern city into the small Devon seaside town where I lived. On paper it seemed a no-brainer - the city had a shortage of housing, my town had spare social housing, people were keen to move out of the rougher areas in the city to a "resort". All good.
So the authorities sent a bunch of homeless drug addicts and problem families from estates and put them into a sleepy town that was ill prepared or equipped for the problems that came with them. Soon the streets they moved into became a no-go area and drug supplies to the area rocketed as they used their contacts up north to bring more into the locality. It was a disaster for the local community that took years to sort out.
Assuming your're talking about the North Devon town that I think you are, it's finally stating to show signs of improvement, but theres still quite a difference compared to its neighbouring towns. About 35 years ago they decided to rehouse a load of people from a large Northern city into the small Devon seaside town where I lived. On paper it seemed a no-brainer - the city had a shortage of housing, my town had spare social housing, people were keen to move out of the rougher areas in the city to a "resort". All good.
So the authorities sent a bunch of homeless drug addicts and problem families from estates and put them into a sleepy town that was ill prepared or equipped for the problems that came with them. Soon the streets they moved into became a no-go area and drug supplies to the area rocketed as they used their contacts up north to bring more into the locality. It was a disaster for the local community that took years to sort out.
As for the increase in homelessness, it certainly seems as though the numbers have increased in Exeter - either that or they've chosen to become a lot more visible.
Edited by Raoul Duke on Monday 6th February 13:17
Edited by Raoul Duke on Monday 6th February 13:18
Numbers have grown big time in the cities, went to London and wow it has changed from 20 years ago. I even saw 4 women sleeping on a mattress in a door way.
Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
PAULJ5555 said:
Numbers have grown big time in the cities, went to London and wow it has changed from 20 years ago. I even saw 4 women sleeping on a mattress in a door way.
Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
London wants everything! They're perfectly welcome to keep this too thanks.Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
outside the M25.. here be dragons
Edited by SystemParanoia on Monday 6th February 14:28
PAULJ5555 said:
Numbers have grown big time in the cities, went to London and wow it has changed from 20 years ago. I even saw 4 women sleeping on a mattress in a door way.
Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
Sounds like a case for Viz's 'Jack Black and his dog Silver'.Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
SystemParanoia said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Numbers have grown big time in the cities, went to London and wow it has changed from 20 years ago. I even saw 4 women sleeping on a mattress in a door way.
Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
London wants everything! They're perfectly welcome to keep this too thanks.Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
outside the M25.. here be dragons
Edited by SystemParanoia on Monday 6th February 14:28
Anyway its not just in London, homelessness has changed a lot in the Capital City of Wales over the last 20 years and you also notice it creeping into the suburbs.
PAULJ5555 said:
SystemParanoia said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Numbers have grown big time in the cities, went to London and wow it has changed from 20 years ago. I even saw 4 women sleeping on a mattress in a door way.
Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
London wants everything! They're perfectly welcome to keep this too thanks.Have you seen what goes on around the subways of Marble Arch, 30/50 eastern European people all sleeping rough together, rubbish everywhere, the bushes used as toilets, human poo everywhere.
Its only time before it spread out of the cities and into these nice little villages where folk think this never happens.
outside the M25.. here be dragons
Edited by SystemParanoia on Monday 6th February 14:28
Anyway its not just in London, homelessness has changed a lot in the Capital City of Wales over the last 20 years and you also notice it creeping into the suburbs.
Apologies anyway if its come across in a negative way.
( not a londoner either )
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