DNA test refusal
Discussion
An interesting discussion in the pub last night amongst friends.
If, as the result of a brief fling, a child is born, but the mother refuses to confirm or deny who the father is and refuses a DNA test, then I assume no claim can be made against the presumed father? Equally the presumed father has no right to see the child?
This situation effects one of the chaps in the pub... he wants to do the right thing, but is being prevented from doing so. He wasn't told about the pregnancy, wasn't consulted in any way. Has found out second hand and every indication is that he is indeed the father.
I would guess this is not a unique situation, but I (and he) have no idea of the legal rights here. As no claim is being made against him, I assume he has no right to a paternity test.
If, as the result of a brief fling, a child is born, but the mother refuses to confirm or deny who the father is and refuses a DNA test, then I assume no claim can be made against the presumed father? Equally the presumed father has no right to see the child?
This situation effects one of the chaps in the pub... he wants to do the right thing, but is being prevented from doing so. He wasn't told about the pregnancy, wasn't consulted in any way. Has found out second hand and every indication is that he is indeed the father.
I would guess this is not a unique situation, but I (and he) have no idea of the legal rights here. As no claim is being made against him, I assume he has no right to a paternity test.
This happened to my mate about 16 years ago now.
He started seeing the ex-girlfriend of a mutual friend (well, they weren't friends once he started seeing her), then they split up a few months later and she got back together with the original boyfriend.
I bumped into the mutual friend / original boyfriend one day and he was really excited because she was pregnant and then he told me when it was due. I quickly did the math in my head and realised it didn't add up, she would have conceived when she was seeing my other mate. After we parted company I rang my mate to tell him the 'news'.
Cue lots of emotional turmoil as she denied the kid was his, refused a DNA test, he took her to court, lost, became an alcoholic for a while. It wasn't pleasant. The kid has grown up thinking the other guy is her father.
He started seeing the ex-girlfriend of a mutual friend (well, they weren't friends once he started seeing her), then they split up a few months later and she got back together with the original boyfriend.
I bumped into the mutual friend / original boyfriend one day and he was really excited because she was pregnant and then he told me when it was due. I quickly did the math in my head and realised it didn't add up, she would have conceived when she was seeing my other mate. After we parted company I rang my mate to tell him the 'news'.
Cue lots of emotional turmoil as she denied the kid was his, refused a DNA test, he took her to court, lost, became an alcoholic for a while. It wasn't pleasant. The kid has grown up thinking the other guy is her father.
55palfers said:
Will the mother be claiming any Benefits?
If CSA (or whatever it's called now) gets involved, the man has the right to prove he is / isn't the father.
I'm not sure if the mother is claiming benefits - that's an interesting point. Thank you.If CSA (or whatever it's called now) gets involved, the man has the right to prove he is / isn't the father.
The mother is not claiming anything from the suspected father, has made no approach at all. I don't think he can simply demand a paternity test - otherwise anyone could demand the DNA from any child they wanted. At least that's my logic - I may be wrong on this point.
hornetrider said:
The mother can't stop him being involved. I'm not sure how to go about the legal bits of enforcing a paternity test though. I'd presume the father needs to lawyer up.
Yes she can! Say a woman over the road gets pregnant and because I'm mental I declare myself the father. Can she stop me 'being involved'? Of course she can!
If the chap in question has no proof, and she isn't prepared to provide it, that's the end of it.
Take it to the extreme - a man rapes a woman and she becomes pregnant as a result. Does the rapist have parental rights and access rights?
If the father's name is on the birth certificate then he has rights (it used to only be if they were married, but that changed years ago).
Without that - the biological father is just another stranger on the street.
Ari said:
Yes she can!
Say a woman over the road gets pregnant and because I'm mental I declare myself the father. Can she stop me 'being involved'? Of course she can!
If the chap in question has no proof, and she isn't prepared to provide it, that's the end of it.
Take it to the extreme - a man rapes a woman and she becomes pregnant as a result. Does the rapist have parental rights and access rights?
If the father's name is on the birth certificate then he has rights (it used to only be if they were married, but that changed years ago).
Without that - the biological father is just another stranger on the street.
This was my thinking too.Say a woman over the road gets pregnant and because I'm mental I declare myself the father. Can she stop me 'being involved'? Of course she can!
If the chap in question has no proof, and she isn't prepared to provide it, that's the end of it.
Take it to the extreme - a man rapes a woman and she becomes pregnant as a result. Does the rapist have parental rights and access rights?
If the father's name is on the birth certificate then he has rights (it used to only be if they were married, but that changed years ago).
Without that - the biological father is just another stranger on the street.
Ari said:
Yes she can!
Say a woman over the road gets pregnant and because I'm mental I declare myself the father. Can she stop me 'being involved'? Of course she can!
If the chap in question has no proof, and she isn't prepared to provide it, that's the end of it.
Take it to the extreme - a man rapes a woman and she becomes pregnant as a result. Does the rapist have parental rights and access rights?
If the father's name is on the birth certificate then he has rights (it used to only be if they were married, but that changed years ago).
Without that - the biological father is just another stranger on the street.
The child has a right to see it's FatherSay a woman over the road gets pregnant and because I'm mental I declare myself the father. Can she stop me 'being involved'? Of course she can!
If the chap in question has no proof, and she isn't prepared to provide it, that's the end of it.
Take it to the extreme - a man rapes a woman and she becomes pregnant as a result. Does the rapist have parental rights and access rights?
If the father's name is on the birth certificate then he has rights (it used to only be if they were married, but that changed years ago).
Without that - the biological father is just another stranger on the street.
Ari said:
Yes she can!
Say a woman over the road gets pregnant and because I'm mental I declare myself the father. Can she stop me 'being involved'? Of course she can!
If the chap in question has no proof, and she isn't prepared to provide it, that's the end of it.
Take it to the extreme - a man rapes a woman and she becomes pregnant as a result. Does the rapist have parental rights and access rights?
If the father's name is on the birth certificate then he has rights (it used to only be if they were married, but that changed years ago).
Without that - the biological father is just another stranger on the street.
Where does he stand in say 2 years time then and she decides she's skint and wants child maintenance? Would he have to pay for the previous 2 years too?Say a woman over the road gets pregnant and because I'm mental I declare myself the father. Can she stop me 'being involved'? Of course she can!
If the chap in question has no proof, and she isn't prepared to provide it, that's the end of it.
Take it to the extreme - a man rapes a woman and she becomes pregnant as a result. Does the rapist have parental rights and access rights?
If the father's name is on the birth certificate then he has rights (it used to only be if they were married, but that changed years ago).
Without that - the biological father is just another stranger on the street.
A friend of mine was paying child benifit payments to an ex for nearly 10 years for a child. He missed a couple of payments and she went bats
t crazy at him. Whilst in the middle of a temper tantrum akin to a 5 year old not getting sweets from the shop she screened at him the child wasn't even fking his and she had been shagging someone else at the time.
He contacts the csa and demands a DNA test to see if he is the father but csa don't give a st as it's money coming in and going out to a parent and they wouldn't want to generate work and chase the possible other father themselves. He has a cheap test done on the side which proves hes not the father.
Finally he goes and sees a solicitor about forcing an 'official' DNA test or stopping payments (works for the military so its garnished at source). Took him a further two years to get an official DNA test and prove he wasn't the father.
The real kicker is though that even though he has paid all this money out through the csa he can't get a penny back. Bloody barmy, they should find the real dad and not only sting him for the current child benifit payments but also the money my mate has had to pay for nearly 12 years.
That and make the lying skank pay compensation to him for ripping him off and the mental anguish caused. Luckily his wife is a clam and thinking type and has persuaded him to just leave it all and let it be.
t crazy at him. Whilst in the middle of a temper tantrum akin to a 5 year old not getting sweets from the shop she screened at him the child wasn't even fking his and she had been shagging someone else at the time. He contacts the csa and demands a DNA test to see if he is the father but csa don't give a s
t as it's money coming in and going out to a parent and they wouldn't want to generate work and chase the possible other father themselves. He has a cheap test done on the side which proves hes not the father. Finally he goes and sees a solicitor about forcing an 'official' DNA test or stopping payments (works for the military so its garnished at source). Took him a further two years to get an official DNA test and prove he wasn't the father.
The real kicker is though that even though he has paid all this money out through the csa he can't get a penny back. Bloody barmy, they should find the real dad and not only sting him for the current child benifit payments but also the money my mate has had to pay for nearly 12 years.
That and make the lying skank pay compensation to him for ripping him off and the mental anguish caused. Luckily his wife is a clam and thinking type and has persuaded him to just leave it all and let it be.
Edited by Markbarry1977 on Thursday 2nd March 12:24
Edited by Markbarry1977 on Thursday 2nd March 12:24
Can't believe there's no way for the guy to get his money back. His solicitor should write formally to the Head of the CSA and demand the return of the money plus interest. If they refuse then issue proceedings against them, gain a CCJ, escalate to High Court and send in the Sheriffs.
Justice needs to be done here!
Justice needs to be done here!
Some studies indicate as much as 10-20% of all children are brought up by the wrong-DNA father. It is way more common than you think, across all social classes. A woman's biological program is to pop out the next generation and do whatever it takes to rear it to reproductive maturity.
elanfan said:
Can't believe there's no way for the guy to get his money back. His solicitor should write formally to the Head of the CSA and demand the return of the money plus interest. If they refuse then issue proceedings against them, gain a CCJ, escalate to High Court and send in the Sheriffs.
Justice needs to be done here!
Of course he should be able to claim the money back, he has pretty much been defrauded. Surely the fact that the girl knowingly wrongly claimed from him is her committing fraud? Had she falsely claimed benefits then she would be prosecuted?Justice needs to be done here!
NDA said:
I would guess this is not a unique situation, but I (and he) have no idea of the legal rights here. As no claim is being made against him, I assume he has no right to a paternity test.
If the mother is unwilling to permit a DNA test voluntarily the possible father would need to make an application to the County Court to force her.If he is the father, and the mother obstructs contact, then he would again have to make an application to County Court for contact. But the reality of this is that the Court will do little or nothing if the mother refuses to comply with the Court Order.
As far as child maintenance goes, if any application is made by the mother via the Child Maintenance Service he can demand a DNA test as he is not stated on the childs birth certificate as the father. He will have to pay for this.
My thoughts are that if the mother had wanted the father involved then she would already have told him. As she doesn't, he is likely to enter a whole world of pain by trying to enforce any contact. Sometimes sleeping dogs are best left alone.
Markbarry1977 said:
A friend of mine was paying child benifit payments to an ex for nearly 10 years for a child. He missed a couple of payments and she went batst crazy at him. Whilst in the middle of a temper tantrum akin to a 5 year old not getting sweets from the shop she screened at him the child wasn't even fking his and she had been shagging someone else at the time.
He contacts the csa and demands a DNA test to see if he is the father but csa don't give a st as it's money coming in and going out to a parent and they wouldn't want to generate work and chase the possible other father themselves. He has a cheap test done on the side which proves hes not the father.
Finally he goes and sees a solicitor about forcing an 'official' DNA test or stopping payments (works for the military so its garnished at source). Took him a further two years to get an official DNA test and prove he wasn't the father.
The real kicker is though that even though he has paid all this money out through the csa he can't get a penny back. Bloody barmy, they should find the real dad and not only sting him for the current child benifit payments but also the money my mate has had to pay for nearly 12 years.
That and make the lying skank pay compensation to him for ripping him off and the mental anguish caused. Luckily his wife is a clam and thinking type and has persuaded him to just leave it all and let it be.
As st crazy at him. Whilst in the middle of a temper tantrum akin to a 5 year old not getting sweets from the shop she screened at him the child wasn't even fking his and she had been shagging someone else at the time. He contacts the csa and demands a DNA test to see if he is the father but csa don't give a s
t as it's money coming in and going out to a parent and they wouldn't want to generate work and chase the possible other father themselves. He has a cheap test done on the side which proves hes not the father. Finally he goes and sees a solicitor about forcing an 'official' DNA test or stopping payments (works for the military so its garnished at source). Took him a further two years to get an official DNA test and prove he wasn't the father.
The real kicker is though that even though he has paid all this money out through the csa he can't get a penny back. Bloody barmy, they should find the real dad and not only sting him for the current child benifit payments but also the money my mate has had to pay for nearly 12 years.
That and make the lying skank pay compensation to him for ripping him off and the mental anguish caused. Luckily his wife is a clam and thinking type and has persuaded him to just leave it all and let it be.
Edited by Markbarry1977 on Thursday 2nd March 12:24
Edited by Markbarry1977 on Thursday 2nd March 12:24
t as that is for your mate, has that changed the way he thinks of the kid? If he's grown up around him for 10+ years then is there some sort of bond? If not then fair enough, but if father & son have a decent relationship then that must count for something?From my point of view, I know if I was told either my mum or dad were not my biological parents it wouldn't change how I felt about them.
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